Two Weapons, a Chase, a Killing and No Charges: A 25-year-old man running through a Georgia neighborhood ended up dead

[Bonesinium]

A mandatory life sentence and no parole for at least 30 years (judge can sentence higher than 30 for parole eligibility), is really steep for unintentionally causing a death.

Yep. 30 years for more or less (probably more) just following a guy in your truck. That’s not proportional. I get it, a guy was killed. But the guy who killed him is already going to prison. It’s basically just guilt by association.

I get the point of felony murder but it’s application is so broad, and at least in GA, the punishment so high, as to not be reasonable. I mean what’s the punishment for aggravated assault, 5-20 years, right? That seems much more in line with his actual conduct, no?

 

[Picton]

I used to walk through new construction all the damn time... when I was a kid. I doubt it would occur to me to do it now. Not because I don't still have an urge to go see the unfinished space (I do!), but because I'd expect to be hassled if I was discovered. Who needs that agita?

 

[BigTimber]

A LOT of people walk through houses under construction, 99.999% of people are curious and often admire the work. Leaving tools at any unsecured location where it’s a house, business or your own house is just stupid. If there are signs no trespassing, people respect that.

Apparently a lot of people feel free to do it. In 30 years of building houses I’ve never once Caught people in one We were doing. It’s not hand tools we‘re talking about that worries guys, most of those would be in gang boxes if left over night. It’s the Copper wire, piping and other materials that can’t be secured that get ripped off that builders worry about. I dont know of any GC’s or site Forman‘s that are going to give strangers trespassing through a construction site a warm welcome. I’ve always gone by the silly notion that if it’s not your property you stay the fu€k off it Unless invited.

 

[Hoover]

Apparently a lot of people feel free to do it. In 30 years of building houses I’ve never once Caught people in one We were doing. It’s not handtools were talking about, most of those would be in gang boxes if left over night. It’s the Copper wire, piping and other materials that can’t be secured that get ripped off. I dont know of any GC’s or site Formans that are going to give strangers trespassing through a construction site a warm welcome. I’ve always gone by the silly notion that if it’s not your property you stay the fu€k off it Unless invited.

I know a few dozens contractors and none are ever concern by curious people looking at their work, may will chat with them and get referrals and future work from those meetings.

I don’t know anyone who leaves uninstalled copper, fixtures, power tools, etc on site and unsecured. I’m in the burbs, never an issue here. In cities, I’m sure it’s more of an issue. The junkies don’t want to bother with scrapping copper when they can literally walk out of a Home Depot, Lowe’s or other store with a $500 cordless set. Employees are not allowed to stop theft, they will be fired.

 

[Hoover]

Apparently a lot of people feel free to do it. In 30 years of building houses I’ve never once Caught people in one We were doing. It’s not hand tools we‘re talking about that worries guys, most of those would be in gang boxes if left over night. It’s the Copper wire, piping and other materials that can’t be secured that get ripped off that builders worry about. I dont know of any GC’s or site Forman‘s that are going to give strangers trespassing through a construction site a warm welcome. I’ve always gone by the silly notion that if it’s not your property you stay the fu€k off it Unless invited.

Ive walked through very middle class single family houses and apartments under construction and I’ve walked though a $25 million dollar house under construction for a Celtics co owner, never had an issue. Asked the GC at a $15 million dollar house if I could take a look around. He said he couldn’t allow it, company policy. I said no problem, and as I was walking away he said “by the way, I’m not here to say no on the weekends if you know what I mean”.

The Celtics co owners house was amazing, everything on it was perfect or it was not approved by the GC.

 

[BigTimber]

I know a few dozens contractors and none are ever concern by curious people looking at their work, may will chat with them and get referrals and future work from those meetings.

I don’t know anyone who leaves uninstalled copper, fixtures, power tools, etc on site and unsecured. I’m in the burbs, never an issue here. In cities, I’m sure it’s more of an issue. The junkies don’t want to bother with scrapping copper when they can literally walk out of a Home Depot, Lowe’s or other store with a $500 cordless set. Employees are not allowed to stop theft, they will be fired.

I’ve been doing this 30 years. Walking up to a contractor and asking him to see the work is one thing. Walking into a structure off hours when no one is there with no permission is another. And people rip pipes and wires out of walls all the time on sites, how exactly would you secure those? I know a contractor who not two years ago had an entire new construction site stripped of all the electrical wires in One night. Trust me no contractor wants you on a site when they’re not there. If it’s not your Property you have no business being on it. Not a hard concept to grasp. You also put them in a tuff spot liability wise.

 

[Waher]

An unsecured construction site is an insurance liability. Injury, theft, damage = no superintendent in their right mind wants trespassers.

 

[KBCraig]

I didn’t realize the video was leaked by the 3rd defendant himself. No charges were brought until he did it, for 10 weeks. What a fu€king dumb ass.

And he denied knowing the McMichaels, or that they acted in concert. He said he was just a bystander who caught the whole thing on video.

 

[FPrice]

I wonder how many people who feel free to walk through a house under construction without permission simply because they want to see would object to a total stranger wandering around their property looking at stuff. Simply because they just wanted to see.

 

[Baby Billy]

I wonder how many people who feel free to walk through a house under construction without permission simply because they want to see would object to a total stranger wandering around their property looking at stuff. Simply because they just wanted to see.

I love to wander through finished construction sites, but I usually wait until off hours when nobody is home. I love seeing the beauty of finished construction, and I'm naturally curious, so it's okay.

 

[MaverickNH]

Justice prevailed in the trial of Ahmaud Arberyâs killers. In America, thatâs a shock | Moustafa Bayoumi

The jury reached the right verdict – even as the criminal justice system did everything it could to exonerate the three men

www.theguardian.com

"…the shock is that justice was served in a case where it seemed the criminal justice system and substantial portions of media coverage were doing all they could to exonerate these men. In fact, everything about this case illustrates how difficult it is to get justice for Black people in this country…there is the irrational and racist fear of Black people that has motivated so much white vigilantism. It’s no mere coincidence that Georgia’s (now-defunct) self-defense statute dates to the civil war era."

An English professor’s perspective on the racist roots of our criminal justice system, media bias, self-defense, white vigilantism…

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Felony murder is a death resulting from a felony. They stack the charges so they have more opportunities to get a conviction on one. They could prove a number of felonies and since a death occurred, each was eligible for felony murder.

Felony murder is a life sentence in GA, no parole for at least 30 years. If Bryan doesn’t get that overturned, he’s likely to die in prison.

A former co-worker lost his wife to a driver fleeing the police. When he asked the prosecutor about a felony murder charge for the driver he was told that stealing a car and fleeing in a high speed chase did not qualify for that charge in MA since it was not an "inherently dangerous felony". I'm not sure if that is accurate, or if it was newspeak for "We don't feel like going to the mat on the one".

 

[VetteGirlMA]

Justice prevailed in the trial of Ahmaud Arberyâs killers. In America, thatâs a shock | Moustafa Bayoumi

The jury reached the right verdict – even as the criminal justice system did everything it could to exonerate the three men

www.theguardian.com

"…the shock is that justice was served in a case where it seemed the criminal justice system and substantial portions of media coverage were doing all they could to exonerate these men. In fact, everything about this case illustrates how difficult it is to get justice for Black people in this country…there is the irrational and racist fear of Black people that has motivated so much white vigilantism. It’s no mere coincidence that Georgia’s (now-defunct) self-defense statute dates to the civil war era."

An English professor’s perspective on the racist roots of our criminal justice system, media bias, self-defense, white vigilantism…

Andrew Branca from the lawofselfdefense.com is criticizing the judges interpretation of the citizens arrest law. If the judge is wrong and the citizens arrest was valid then all of the other charges would be invalid.

Arbery Case Trial: Judge Walmsley Drops the Ball On Ambiguous Citizen’s Arrest Law

Apparently the jury is to figure out how to apply a citizen’s arrest law that befuddles the lawyers and judge.

legalinsurrection.com

Branca seems to feel that if the law is interpreted correctly all charges would be dropped.

 

[Rehoboth Dave]

Murdering racists all three. Glad to see that justice was done in this case.

 

[Picton]

Andrew Branca from the lawofselfdefense.com is criticizing the judges interpretation of the citizens arrest law. If the judge is wrong and the citizens arrest was valid then all of the other charges would be invalid.

Arbery Case Trial: Judge Walmsley Drops the Ball On Ambiguous Citizen’s Arrest Law

Apparently the jury is to figure out how to apply a citizen’s arrest law that befuddles the lawyers and judge.

legalinsurrection.com

Branca seems to feel that if the law is interpreted correctly all charges would be dropped.

Well, that's what appeals are for.

 

[Waher]

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/SassyConservat1/status/1463649401600200712

 

[MaverickNH]

Murdering racists all three. Glad to see that justice was done in this case.

Unfortunately, many did not see individuals on trial. They saw the defendants as representatives of all they find guilty of racism - past, present and future.

 

[dragonballzz]

Unfortunately, many did not see individuals on trial. They saw the defendants as representatives of all they find guilty of racism - past, present and future.

Because how many times do those people see white defendants get off a rape or other charge with a slap on the wrist and black defendants get put away for decades for a weed posession or distribution charge WITH NO VICTIM. Even decades ago, white underaged kids caught driving drunk by cops would just get their alcohol taken away and driven home by the cops. I'm not saying that is wrong. But you bet your butthole that a black kid in the same situation would get very different treatment.

This may be the media cherry picking, showing whichever story they want. But the average person isnt looking up statistics and analyzing anything. The average person is living their life, trying to make money, and taking care of the family

 

[Bonesinium]

Branca seems to feel that if the law is interpreted correctly all charges would be dropped.

That’s not at all what he said.

 

[Hoover]

I’ve been doing this 30 years. Walking up to a contractor and asking him to see the work is one thing. Walking into a structure off hours when no one is there with no permission is another. And people rip pipes and wires out of walls all the time on sites, how exactly would you secure those? I know a contractor who not two years ago had an entire new construction site stripped of all the electrical wires in One night. Trust me no contractor wants you on a site when they’re not there. If it’s not your Property you have no business being on it. Not a hard concept to grasp. You also put them in a tuff spot liability wise.

I know dozens of contractors, they honestly do not care.

I wonder what type of mental illness the guy who stripped a house of install3d Romex has? That’s a heck of a lot of work for not much money in scrap.

 

[42!]

I wonder how many people who feel free to walk through a house under construction without permission simply because they want to see would object to a total stranger wandering around their property looking at stuff. Simply because they just wanted to see.

Big difference between walking around a construction site and going into a finished house with a resident, equating the two is BS. But yes I have walked around outside a complete house. When I was house shopping sometimes I'd see a for sale sign and stop, knock on the door, if no one was home, there was no "no trespassing" sign and no fence, ya I might just walk around outside to see if it's worth following up on.

But the whole point of this was that being in a construction site does not automatically equate to intent to rob. The fact that people here have done this without intent to rob is proof.

Even if he had been seen in a video robbing the house there would still be no grounds for a citizen's arrest since the video was from some time in the past and the knowledge and action on which the citizens arrest is to be based must be timely. In other words he had to be leaving the witnessed robbery at the time of the arrest. The video was something they saw previously, not live streamed at the time of the supposed citizens arrest.

The reason the law requires it to be timely and directly witnessed is simple. If I witness a crime, then a week later see the perpetrator, how would I know he hadn't already been arrested and out on bail?

The citizen's arrest angle was just never going to work. They used it because it was all they had and without it they were the clear aggressors.

 

[FPrice]

Big difference between walking around a construction site and going into a finished house with a resident, equating the two is BS.

YMMV.

Mine does.

 

[Hoover]

A former co-worker lost his wife to a driver fleeing the police. When he asked the prosecutor about a felony murder charge for the driver he was told that stealing a car and fleeing in a high speed chase did not qualify for that charge in MA since it was not an "inherently dangerous felony". I'm not sure if that is accurate, or if it was newspeak for "We don't feel like going to the mat on the one".

As you know the MA justice system is very lenient with the exception of 1st degree murder which is an automatic life no parole sentence.

This piece probably illustrates the prosecutor’s thoughts. Massachusetts Changes its Felony Murder Doctrine for the Better. Another piece I just saw talked about a need of intent to kill, not just reckless conduct. Massachusetts court refines felony murder rule | J. W. Carney, Jr. & Associates

From what I’ve seen,most other states have a much lower bar for felony murder and the possible sentences are much more severe than Massachusetts. The 3 in GA would have received very different sentences if the location was MA instead. Roddy probably wouldn’t have even received 2nd degree murder because that requires an intent to kill but without malice or forethought. But even 2nd degree murder would have been life with parole eligibility after 15 years. In Georgia he’s looking at 30 minimum

There are such disparities in punishments from state to state and even within a state.

 

[enbloc]

But yes I have walked around outside a complete house.

 

[Hoover]

Yep. 30 years for more or less (probably more) just following a guy in your truck. That’s not proportional. I get it, a guy was killed. But the guy who killed him is already going to prison. It’s basically just guilt by association.

I get the point of felony murder but it’s application is so broad, and at least in GA, the punishment so high, as to not be reasonable. I mean what’s the punishment for aggravated assault, 5-20 years, right? That seems much more in line with his actual conduct, no?

I agree.

I think he used his truck to some degree to block Arbery but Bryan’s mindset and intent is where a prosecutor has to use discretion and not go for the kill for someone who made a mistake or poor judgement. Given Bryan a truth serum and I bet you he says the mcmichaels shouted out Arbery was a thief and had just robbed a house or was the guy robbing the neighborhood. Bryan thought he was being a good neighbor and helping stop a thief barometer fleeing before the cops got there. He relied on the mcmichaels word and had no idea they were armed and would escalate it to that level.

Bryan’s intent was to help a neighbor. He didn’t bring a gun, get of his truck to allow a confrontation, etc. a minimum of 30 years, which at his age is probably a life sentence, is far too high for his minor role. Even if one believes the prosecution case 100%, Bryan should get probably 10-12 years.

Felony murder for the prosecution is like lowering a basketball hoop to 8 ft for a basketball player, it’s easy to slam dunk.

I have no sympathy at all for the son, not much for the father. But Bryan’s punishment here is quite excessive. The system shouldn’t allow such an excessive sentence for an error of judgement.

 

[Hoover]

Murdering racists all three. Glad to see that justice was done in this case.

There were some racist posts and language from the mcmichaels past, I don’t think there has been any indication Bryan has racial animus

Do you really think justice is Bryan never walking out of prison? Justice should be proportional to the crime and role in the crime. I don’t think justice was done in his case.

 

[H-minus]

Justice prevailed in the trial of Ahmaud Arberyâs killers. In America, thatâs a shock | Moustafa Bayoumi

The jury reached the right verdict – even as the criminal justice system did everything it could to exonerate the three men

www.theguardian.com

"…the shock is that justice was served in a case where it seemed the criminal justice system and substantial portions of media coverage were doing all they could to exonerate these men. In fact, everything about this case illustrates how difficult it is to get justice for Black people in this country…there is the irrational and racist fear of Black people that has motivated so much white vigilantism. It’s no mere coincidence that Georgia’s (now-defunct) self-defense statute dates to the civil war era."

An English professor’s perspective on the racist roots of our criminal justice system, media bias, self-defense, white vigilantism…

The Guardian and Reuters are both slimy Brit outlets. Doesn't jolly old England have enough of their own dumpster fires to cover rather than the constant pot stirring they partake in regarding US culture and political issues? Issues they have limited understanding of to begin with.

 

[free]

Andrew Branca from the lawofselfdefense.com is criticizing the judges interpretation of the citizens arrest law. If the judge is wrong and the citizens arrest was valid then all of the other charges would be invalid.

Arbery Case Trial: Judge Walmsley Drops the Ball On Ambiguous Citizen’s Arrest Law

Apparently the jury is to figure out how to apply a citizen’s arrest law that befuddles the lawyers and judge.

legalinsurrection.com

Branca seems to feel that if the law is interpreted correctly all charges would be dropped.

No. Wrong. Again.

 

[meh]

... and had no idea they were armed and would escalate it to that level.

I agreed with most of what you wrote, but I don't agree with this. That's his story. I'm not buying it. This is the deep south away from densely populated urban areas. I grew up in such a place. If he didn't just move in from out-of-state the week before, he would have known it was all but certain that they were armed if they were interested in confronting Arbery at all. He also knew they would try to detain Arbery, most likely at gunpoint, if they got the chance. He would have assumed it was legal to do so, but that is obviously not a legal excuse.

 

[PaulR]