Two Weapons, a Chase, a Killing and No Charges: A 25-year-old man running through a Georgia neighborhood ended up dead

[Roadglide]

The contortions people go through on this board to justify this amaze me. I would think most here have an LTC.

You have an LTC. You're carrying. 3 guys you've never seen before, obviously not police, chase you down in two vehicles, hit you with a vehicle, then exit, armed. And you would simply surrender? I would fear for my life, and I'm playing "refuse to be a victim" (®NRA) even if my chances aren't great. If I survive, I'm pretty sure it's a good shoot, even here in MA.

If Arbery had been carrying he would have been justified as well. He wasn't so he tried the best he could. If you were and think you would surrender you might as well flush your LTC down the toilet, self defense doesn't mean anything to you.

Ok but guy didn't have an LTC, wasn't armed one of the other guys was ex police. Arbery refused to be a victim (I wouldn't consider him a victim. More like a thieving scum bag but we can use victim) and it got him killed.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Given the reactions to most SC decisions here, I’m not shocked at the responses. Lol

 

[Bonesinium]

For arguments sake, let’s assume he was burglarizing the house AND the guys knew it AND it was their property.

Was he a threat?
Did he appear to be a threat?
Was he armed?
Did he appear armed?
Who was chasing who?

Best I can tell, is he was fleeing. They were chasing. It wasn’t their house that was burglarized. He wasn’t a threat of causing serious bodily injury or death to anyone, just a thief. Them chasing him with guns down the street makes them the aggressors. His previous theft does not change this. It does not now allow them to create a separate situation where somehow deadly force is justified based on his prior acts. It’s a new situation and all the factors that predicate when deadly force is justified are based entirely out of this present situation. Believe it or not, you aren’t justified in using deadly force just because someone’s a thief. And believe it or not, even thieves can in fact be justified in using force themselves when someone else is attempting to use unjustified force on them.

I mean, best case scenario for them, I can’t see how they were justified. And the actual facts are NOT a base case scenario. It wasn’t their property. He didn’t seem to actually steal anything.

If you are going to create a situation where you kill or need to kill someone, because you think you are stopping a criminal, you damn well better be right about what you think they were doing.

 

[xtry51]

I don't agree with what they did based on the circumstances.

I do think shooting thieves in the back is an OK practice.

 

[Reptile]

Three choices. Stop. Raise hands. Wait for the police.

Wouldn't be the first time the police pointed guns at him.

His prior arrest videos were very entertaining.

 

[babygorilla]

Wouldn't be the first time the police pointed guns at him.

His prior arrest videos were very entertaining.

Kind of my point. Instead of stopping and saying WTF do you guys want, he chose the route of the perpetually guilty, run away. When run away didn't work, he fought.

A very common reaction in certain circles......

 

[Dennis in MA]

Kind of my point. Instead of stopping and saying WTF do you guys want, he chose the route of the perpetually guilty, run away. When run away didn't work, he fought.

A very common reaction in certain circles......

Only a few are well disciplined VC.

(I was listening to a podcast - the door gunner was SUPPOSED to be Hartman but RLE beat him out of the job. As tech advisor, he had Kubrick's ear all the time. Doorgunnerguy was stuck in a trailer so he wouldn't interact with the rest of the cast. He never got to plead his case.)

 

[42!]

Kind of my point. Instead of stopping and saying WTF do you guys want, he chose the route of the perpetually guilty, run away. When run away didn't work, he fought.

A very common reaction in certain circles......

So you're guilty if you run away from what you see as a threat? Wow, just wow.

You must be such a badass, no fear, just stand there and face down any bad guys with guns, after all they don't shoot.

You know fear is normal. And bravery isn't a lack of fear, it's being able to act in the presence of fear. Fear is what keeps you alive. If you're not afraid when someone points a gun at you, you are truly sick.

 

[babygorilla]

So you're guilty if you run away from what you see as a threat? Wow, just wow.

You must be such a badass, no fear, just stand there and face down any bad guys with guns, after all they don't shoot.

You know fear is normal. And bravery isn't a lack of fear, it's being able to act in the presence of fear. Fear is what keeps you alive. If you're not afraid when someone points a gun at you, you are truly sick.

See, this is where you assume that it started as confrontational. I assume it started as a "Hey, stop right there!". Generally, if I am not guilty, in a situation like that, I stop and ask "WTF do you want".
And after several times of trying to get him to stop (which is actually indicated in the testimony), then the guns were displayed. Also, at no time did they point the gun AT him in the video UNTIL, he charged them.

And yes, I've been shot at, and had guns pointed at me. Generally in those instance if able I ducked and covered.

 

[42!]

See, this is where you assume that it started as confrontational. I assume it started as a "Hey, stop right there!". Generally, if I am not guilty, in a situation like that, I stop and ask "WTF do you want".
And after several times of trying to get him to stop (which is actually indicated in the testimony), then the guns were displayed. Also, at no time did they point the gun AT him in the video UNTIL, he charged them.

And yes, I've been shot at, and had guns pointed at me. Generally in those instance if able I ducked and covered.

OK so know it's stop when 2 random rednecks tell you to or you're guilty of something.

No saying stop is not a confrontation. Neither is just keep walking. But it didn't end there did it. The guns came out and they chased him, NOW it's a confrontation, and they were the aggressors.

 

[babygorilla]

OK so know it's stop when 2 random rednecks tell you to or you're guilty of something.

No saying stop is not a confrontation. Neither is just keep walking. But it didn't end there did it. The guns came out and they chased him, NOW it's a confrontation, and they were the aggressors.

Until he charged at them and attempted to grab the gun.
Again, you are out minding your business, going for a jog, and someone yells at you "Hey buddy, stop!"
What do you do? Run away?

 

[42!]

Until he charged at them and attempted to grab the gun.
Again, you are out minding your business, going for a jog, and someone yells at you "Hey buddy, stop!"
What do you do? Run away?

No I keep walking, the running happens when they get the guns and chase me in a truck. I run (flight) so long as I feel it's a better choice then fight, but once I feel flight isn't working I fight.

The incident started when they chased him with guns and ended when he was shot, stop trying to put some sort of pause in the middle to make it sound like his going for the gun was some kind of separate isolated incident.

 

[babygorilla]

No I keep walking, the running happens when they get the guns and chase me in a truck. I run (flight) so long as I feel it's a better choice then fight, but once I feel flight isn't working I fight.

The incident started when they chased him with guns and ended when he was shot, stop trying to put some sort of pause in the middle to make it sound like his going for the gun was some kind of separate isolated incident.

You seem intent on making them out to be hillbillies just looking to murder a you know what?

My thought is that was not the intent.

So you have NEVER been caught out walking one day and had a driver pull up next to you looking for directions?

 

[Picton]

You seem intent on making them out to be hillbillies just looking to murder a you know what?

My thought is that was not the intent.

So you have NEVER been caught out walking one day and had a driver pull up next to you looking for directions?

Dude.

Even these defendants aren’t claiming they were asking him for directions. Now you’re just being obstinate, plus inventing stuff.

I’ve been chased while running. Know why? Because some people are just a-holes. I kept running. Should I have been “citizens arrested?”

 

[babygorilla]

Dude.

Even these defendants aren’t claiming they were asking him for directions. Now you’re just being obstinate, plus inventing stuff.

I’ve been chased while running. Know why? Because some people are just a-holes. I kept running. Should I have been “citizens arrested?”

I was using an example for times when someone may have yelled at you from a vehicle. Ever heard of it? Please see my convo with 42! not you. Keep up with the conversation.

I've actually never been chased. Generally I find confronting people is more effective. Why would you? What did you do?

Would there be a reason for you to be citizens arrested? And would you not prefer the ACTUAL cops to get involved in that situation, where someone wanted to citizens arrest you?

Some people here seem to think their intent was to just go out and murder him. Did things escalate beyond what was necessary, yes. But by BOTH parties.

 

[Picton]

I was using an example for times when someone may have yelled at you from a vehicle. Ever heard of it? Please see my convo with 42! not you. Keep up with the conversation.

I've actually never been chased. Generally I find confronting people is more effective. Why would you? What did you do?

Would there be a reason for you to be citizens arrested? And would you not prefer the ACTUAL cops to get involved in that situation, where someone wanted to citizens arrest you?

Some people here seem to think their intent was to just go out and murder him. Did things escalate beyond what was necessary, yes. But by BOTH parties.

On foot? Getting chased down by people in a car? Absolutely I'd have been fine with the cops getting involved, and I bet any other runner would say the same. In this case, bet the guys in the truck would not even have brandished a gun had there been a real cop on the scene. So sure. If there's a more disparate situation than pedestrian (running) vs car (pursuing) with armed men aboard, I can't think of one. I would think that's precisely what cops are for.

But then, I'm not black in Georgia.

Again, the jury can figure this out. I'm glad we're finally at that point.

 

[babygorilla]

On foot? Getting chased down by people in a car? Absolutely I'd have been fine with the cops getting involved, and I bet any other runner would say the same. In this case, bet the guys in the truck would not even have brandished a gun had there been a real cop on the scene. So sure. If there's a more disparate situation than pedestrian (running) vs car (pursuing) with armed men aboard, I can't think of one. I would think that's precisely what cops are for.

But then, I'm not black in Georgia.

Again, the jury can figure this out. I'm glad we're finally at that point.

Again, you think it went from 1-1000 in seconds. There was escalation. It likely started as a three idiots saying "hold up there you". Then he ran away. So they followed. Then he evaded, going through house lots and such, they kept following (which was stupid at this point). Then they got out with guns to make the point of enough is enough (really dumb). And he said eff it, I'm going for a gun.

Why everyone thinks they came out guns a blazing is beyond me. They THOUGHT they were being good neighbors. But it was SNAFU from jogger 1.

Hell, I'm out walking about and see someone in our neighborhood that isn't a known neighbor I say hi and ask if they are lost. I also keep an eye out for strange cars in our neighborhood. But I'm a good neighbor.

 

[Picton]

Again, you think it went from 1-1000 in seconds. There was escalation. It likely started as a three idiots saying "hold up there you". Then he ran away. So they followed. Then he evaded, going through house lots and such, they kept following (which was stupid at this point). Then they got out with guns to make the point of enough is enough (really dumb). And he said eff it, I'm going for a gun.

Why everyone thinks they came out guns a blazing is beyond me. They THOUGHT they were being good neighbors. But it was SNAFU from jogger 1.

Hell, I'm out walking about and see someone in our neighborhood that isn't a known neighbor I say hi and ask if they are lost. I also keep an eye out for strange cars in our neighborhood. But I'm a good neighbor.

Forget it. As I figured would happen, we're just rehashing the previous 820-odd posts.

Reread what happened. They pursued him for over a block, and he tried many times to evade. There are also significant questions about the timing of the shots.

Again, it'll all come out in court. And I'll lay money that some here won't accept a guilty verdict, though for the life of me I can't figure out why.

 

[Roadglide]

Again, it'll all come out in court

Ya ok

 

[Picton]

Ya ok

Had you quoted the rest of that line, you'd have been one of the ones I was thinking of. Lol.

 

[Roadglide]

Had you quoted the rest of that line, you'd have been one of the ones I was thinking of. Lol.

Correct. Given what I/we know, if I was on that jury there is no way I vote to convict those guys of anything other than stupidity

 

[42!]

You seem intent on making them out to be hillbillies just looking to murder a you know what?

My thought is that was not the intent.

So you have NEVER been caught out walking one day and had a driver pull up next to you looking for directions?

I should not have called them rednecks, anything else is all you Dude.

I'm looking at actions, not intent. They chased him down the street with guns, and confronted him. That is from their own statements and the video. QAt no point have I speculated on their intent.

This is called redirection. It's a common tactic in argument and debate. You introduce some completely unrelated and made up statement in the hope to cover your inability to for a reasonable and cohesive argument. Nice try.

Again, you think it went from 1-1000 in seconds. There was escalation. It likely started as a three idiots saying "hold up there you". Then he ran away. So they followed. Then he evaded, going through house lots and such, they kept following (which was stupid at this point). Then they got out with guns to make the point of enough is enough (really dumb). And he said eff it, I'm going for a gun.

Why everyone thinks they came out guns a blazing is beyond me. They THOUGHT they were being good neighbors. But it was SNAFU from jogger 1.

Hell, I'm out walking about and see someone in our neighborhood that isn't a known neighbor I say hi and ask if they are lost. I also keep an eye out for strange cars in our neighborhood. But I'm a good neighbor.

More made up stuff. Their own statements and video show the victim running on the street. No running through house lots or convoluted evation tactics, gust running away on a public street. Well credit where it's due, you are finally calling out some of their stupid behavior.

Hitler though he was doing the right thing too. I don't care what they though, just what they did. What they though was their intent, and I already covered that.

Me too, but I don't chase them down the street with guns and cut them off and continue an aggressive confrontation. For me it ends with words unless they make the first move to make it more. And running away doesn't say anything more than they want to get out of there.

 

[Dennis in MA]

A black man scared of two GOB’s with guns. Unheard of. Lol

 

[dcac01]

Ok but guy didn't have an LTC, wasn't armed one of the other guys was ex police. Arbery refused to be a victim (I wouldn't consider him a victim. More like a thieving scum bag but we can use victim) and it got him killed.

Just curious - "other guy is ex police". That matters why, exactly? Do ex police officers have special powers to make arrests? Do you hold them in higher regard? "Stop, I'm ex police!" carries more authority?

Again, you think it went from 1-1000 in seconds. There was escalation. It likely started as a three idiots saying "hold up there you". Then he ran away. So they followed. Then he evaded, going through house lots and such, they kept following (which was stupid at this point). Then they got out with guns to make the point of enough is enough (really dumb). And he said eff it, I'm going for a gun.

Hell, I'm out walking about and see someone in our neighborhood that isn't a known neighbor I say hi and ask if they are lost. I also keep an eye out for strange cars in our neighborhood. But I'm a good neighbor.

Um, you missed the part where they hit him with the vehicle before they got out with the guns. That was the first instance of assault with a deadly weapon. The police are known to feel well justified in shooting people dead for even attempting such an assault, never mind actually hitting someone with a car. At that point he probably got pretty desperate.

Do you stop all the joggers in your neighborhood who you don't know to ask if they are lost?

See, this is where you assume that it started as confrontational. I assume it started as a "Hey, stop right there!". Generally, if I am not guilty, in a situation like that, I stop and ask "WTF do you want".
And after several times of trying to get him to stop (which is actually indicated in the testimony), then the guns were displayed. Also, at no time did they point the gun AT him in the video UNTIL, he charged them.

I'm not sure we know that he didn't stop. And then they said what? "Gee, trust us, get in this car while we point guns at you and we're going to take you to the police for something we think you did last week even though we've never seen you before" Would you get in? You trust them? I grew up in an area in the South that doesn't have nearly the reputation this area does, and if I were Black, no way, no how, am I going to listen to them. Run like hell.

 

[Roadglide]

Just curious - "other guy is ex police". That matters why, exactly? Do ex police officers have special powers to make arrests? Do you hold them in higher regard? "Stop, I'm ex police!" carries more authority?

I was quoting another poster who said they weren't police. Also everyone points out the fact that these guys persued the guy for blocks. Well one of the men was ex police. Isn't that what they are trained to do. Persue people when they think a crime has been committed and the person they think committed said crime tries to evade them. You can pick me apart all you want. My answer is still the same. Not guilty of murder or hate crimes.

 

[42!]

I was quoting another poster who said they weren't police. Also everyone points out the fact that these guys persued the guy for blocks. Well one of the men was ex police. Isn't that what they are trained to do. Persue people when they think a crime has been committed and the person they think committed said crime tries to evade them. You can pick me apart all you want. My answer is still the same. Not guilty of murder or hate crimes.

But he's not a cop. So what he may have been trained to do, or had done in the past when he was a cop is irrelevant.
I don't believe in hate crimes, it's Lib BS trying to make something that is already illegal into super illegal based on the thoughts in someone's head. It's just another step toward Thought Crimes. Just prosecute the dam crime.

 

[Roadglide]

But he's not a cop. So what he may have been trained to do, or had done in the past when he was a cop is irrelevant.
I don't believe in hate crimes, it's Lib BS trying to make something that is already illegal into super illegal based on the thoughts in someone's head. It's just another step toward Thought Crimes. Just prosecute the dam crime.

So I’m a retired brick mason. My past training in laying brick is now irrelevant when laying a new set of brick steps and walkway. Ok. I got it.

 

[babygorilla]

Forget it. As I figured would happen, we're just rehashing the previous 820-odd posts.

Reread what happened. They pursued him for over a block, and he tried many times to evade. There are also significant questions about the timing of the shots.

Again, it'll all come out in court. And I'll lay money that some here won't accept a guilty verdict, though for the life of me I can't figure out why.

They ARE guilty, of manslaughter or negligent homicide. IMO. Their stupid actions lead to his death. However, they are not solely to blame.

 

[babygorilla]

I should not have called them rednecks, anything else is all you Dude. But you did, I did not. That shows a predisposed opinion. I do not have that.

I'm looking at actions, not intent. They chased him down the street with guns, and confronted him. That is from their own statements and the video. QAt no point have I speculated on their intent. At no point did I say they did NOT do that. I only argue that the escalation was gradual, and from both sides. And ultimately, he was shot NOT for running away, but for being on the attack.

This is called redirection. It's a common tactic in argument and debate. You introduce some completely unrelated and made up statement in the hope to cover your inability to for a reasonable and cohesive argument. Nice try. Nope, just trying to understand some of YOUR previous statements, which are conflicting and used only to justify his position. Noice job ducking the questions though.

More made up stuff. Their own statements and video show the victim running on the street. No running through house lots or convoluted evation tactics, gust running away on a public street. Well credit where it's due, you are finally calling out some of their stupid behavior. Actually, the statement does show he tried evading several times. And if you go in the wayback machine in this thread, I called both him and them idiots. This is what happens when two groups of morons collide.

Hitler though he was doing the right thing too. I don't care what they though, just what they did. What they though was their intent, and I already covered that. Intent matters when charging and convicting someone in a court of law. It is part of the defense.

Me too, but I don't chase them down the street with guns and cut them off and continue an aggressive confrontation. For me it ends with words unless they make the first move to make it more. And running away doesn't say anything more than they want to get out of there. So now it is okay for them to attempt to confront him to see his intent? You are flip flopping. Are you saying they did not attempt to have words first? So you KNOW they were just out for blood? You make a lot of assumptions which are contrary to human behavior.

 

[babygorilla]

A black man scared of two GOB’s with guns. Unheard of. Lol

Let's change that to be less racist. A CRIMINAL caught in the act of casing a place or committing crime running away from his accuser / popo, and even fighting with them when cornered. Unheard of.