• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

Two Weapons, a Chase, a Killing and No Charges: A 25-year-old man running through a Georgia neighborhood ended up dead

crazymjb said:
T-unit is just a racist f***. I don't think he's ashamed of it either. He's also an obnoxious know-it-all. It's no surprise that clowns like him who "know what's in the mind of a black man" also know exactly how every situation should always go down. They are the same type of insufferable people we have all met or had to work with, who never have a conversation and always have to tell you how something is, why you are wrong, etc, with ZERO backing other than their arrogance.
Click to expand...
I never said I knew what was in the mind of a black man, I said that in tense situations like what happened the overwhelming reaction with young, Black men is they get aggressive. If I was in the victims shoes I don't know how I would have reacted and, yeah, I probably jumped to a conclusion on how he reacted because I don't know exactly how the situation unfolded. He may have been right to try and disarm the other guy, but it clearly wasn't the smart thing to do.

If you think I'm trying to defend the father and son, I'm not, those two deserve a long prison sentence, but I can't sit here and say that had the victim not tried to take the gun away that he wouldn't still be alive today. Still doesn't give the father and son the right to chase him down and basically hold him against his will at gunpoint.
 
42! said:
I've covered this already but for you I'll go through it again.

Running from an aggressor with a gun only gets you shot in the back. Yes, that would make it clearly murder, but that's not really a benefit to the victim.

If running isn't an option, fighting is. You close space quickly and get inside the arch of the weapon, gun, knife, bat, doesn't matter, its better to be on the safe side even if that puts you in contact with the other person.

Someone points a gun at you and you're wondering what he has in mind, remember you 4 rules. Never point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot.
Click to expand...
But by that reasoning, anyone Pointing a gun at someone is planning on shooting them, what about GIs that hold unarmed prisoners at gunpoint? We don’t know what was said here from victim or the two men, their is a lot we don’t know.
 
weekendracer said:
My eyes have glazed over. Where did the dead guy live? Is it probable that he was 'out for a jog', or did he live 10 miles away, which wouldn't mean much if he was training for a marathon.

Anyone know?
Click to expand...
Didn’t find his home address yet, but one newspaper mentioned that “He lived nearby.” That neighborhood is a loop and he had to go out the way he came in. In my opinion that greatly decreases any urgency for response, since he’d have to run right past any responding officers.
 
The two guys chasing him down should be charged with 2nd degree murder. They should have called the police and maybe followed the guy if they had a suspicion.

As to the man killed. Two white dudes with guns chasing you down in GA and you're black? Yeah, fighting back is a good idea when confronted by two angry people with firearms because history is a good teacher about situations like that ending poorly for the disarmed dude running.

The fault of this death lies clearly at the feet of the two who chased him. I'd convict them if I was on a jury.
 
T-Unit said:
I never said I knew what was in the mind of a black man, I said that in tense situations like what happened the overwhelming reaction with young, Black men is they get aggressive. If I was in the victims shoes I don't know how I would have reacted and, yeah, I probably jumped to a conclusion on how he reacted because I don't know exactly how the situation unfolded. He may have been right to try and disarm the other guy, but it clearly wasn't the smart thing to do.

If you think I'm trying to defend the father and son, I'm not, those two deserve a long prison sentence, but I can't sit here and say that had the victim not tried to take the gun away that he wouldn't still be alive today. Still doesn't give the father and son the right to chase him down and basically hold him against his will at gunpoint.
Click to expand...
Let’s refresh your memory for you.
T-Unit said:
Let's say that Black guy in the video is the one who was killed. Was he out for a jog? Probably, but what business does he have to go into a place under construction? None. Do I think he was looking for stuff to steal? Possibly, metal thieves are always casing construction sites for metal to cash in.

So, he doesn't see anything and he leaves. Trespassing? Yeah, is that worthy of an execution? No.

The father and son think he's a thief and think they're John Wayne, grab their guns and chase him down. They catch up to the suspect, suspect doesn't like the looks of this, and his first action is... fight with armed men? Um, normally you run away from the armed men, but for some reason in the Black man's mind everything must be "kept real" and you have to go ghetto when someone has beef with you.

That was literally the dumbest decision he could have made, but why am I not shocked a young, Black male made a dumb decision?

Now, that doesn't mean he should have been shot because that situation could have been avoided if Whitey and Son weren't openly carrying guns, and this is one reason why I do not recommend people open carry when they can conceal carry: because when you have a confrontation like this, the other side has reason to believe you're a deadly threat to them and it escalates a situation where the opposing side knows what you have and if a fight starts knows where to go for your gun.

If I'm in the dead guy's shoes and two armed guys stop me, I start to think this is a kidnapping, but if I was the guy who was in the house being constructed, then I know they have a right to ask me what I was doing their and that police are on their way to question me about that. If I wasn't the guy in the house, I really don't know what I'd do other than call police and tell me armed men are holding me against my will on Whatever Street in Anytown, USA. If I was armed tho and I knew I wasn't the guy they're looking for... that's a tough one. If they're pointing the gun at me, I'd deem that an imminent threat and use deadly force.

So, the whole situation revolves around the Dopey Duo displaying a gun for the sole reason to use against someone else in the event they become violent. Had they had a gun concealed on themselves or in the vehicle, that shows less intent to due harm and it doesn't give the Black victim a reason to fear for his safety and react violently.

Is this murder? IDK, if they had already decided to kill him (which is possible since they brought guns) it is. I think this is more a manslaughter case, both father and son get 5-10 yrs in prison, and whether they are found guilty on manslaughter they are absolutely guilty of assault because the brandishing of arms is an aggravating circumstance.
Click to expand...
T-Unit said:
Hey... IDGAF what u think.
Click to expand...
 
Reptile said:
"Brandishing" is a legal term in Massachusetts. Almost never used anywhere else. Kind of like the crazy list of items in Mass Knife Law. Words so crazy I never heard most of them before reading that law.
Click to expand...

No it's not, for the 9000th time. Show me where it exists in MGL. It doesn't. Can we kill this bullshit once and for all?

People don't get charged with "brandishing" in MA. You get charged with Assault with a Deadly Weapon. (whether it sticks or not is an other story).

-Mike
 
xtry51 said:
The two guys chasing him down should be charged with 2nd degree murder. They should have called the police and maybe followed the guy if they had a suspicion.

As to the man killed. Two white dudes with guns chasing you down in GA and you're black? Yeah, fighting back is a good idea when confronted by two angry people with firearms because history is a good teacher about situations like that ending poorly for the disarmed dude running.

The fault of this death lies clearly at the feet of the two who chased him. I'd convict them if I was on a jury.
Click to expand...

Has anyone heard more on the guy who took the video? I read somewhere they were considering charges, of some sort, on him. He was still driving when taking the video and it led to questions if he was pursuing the victim also.
 
Guyute said:
T-unit said “I never said I knew what was in the mind of a black man”

Earlier T-unit said
“but for some reason in the Black man's mind everything must be "kept real" and you have to go ghetto when someone has beef with you”
Click to expand...

See, he never said he knew what was in his mind, he just said what was in his mind. That's totally different! [laugh]
 
SERE said:
Has anyone heard more on the guy who took the video? I read somewhere they were considering charges, of some sort, on him. He was still driving when taking the video and it led to questions if he was pursuing the victim also.
Click to expand...

I read that he is "a family friend" of the dudes in the truck. My interpretation of that (MY INTERPRETATION, UNSUPPORTED BY ANYTHING I'VE SEEN) is that they called him up to help with the posse, and that he was filming in that capacity.

He's claiming he gave up the video during the initial investigation in February. My guess is that the GBI and the DA's office have been sitting on it since then, and I can't imagine why, though the fact that two prior DAs had to recuse themselves might give us a clue. The two truck dudes seem to know a lot of people in local LE.
 
Twigg said:
All I've got to say on this it's shameful behaviour you shoot an unarmed man, you deserve capital punishment.
Click to expand...

I'll just leave it at, you are wrong in the absolute.

You are leaving out a realm of situations where shooting an 'unarmed' man is completely justified. The outlandish example is Iceman Liddel, do you really want to go toe to toe with him (even in retirement)?. More reasonable, you've been fighting for 2-3 minutes, you are gassed, and the other guy still has gas in the tank. Size disparity is another big factor. I could go on and on, but I think those hit most of the high points.
 
GBI stated this video was also reviewed by them before bringing charges.

lawandcrime.com

Homeowner Linked to Ahmaud Arbery Case Said House Wasn't Robbed | Law & Crime

A Georgia homeowner linked to the Ahmaud Arbery case said that his residence, which was under construction, was never burglarized. "I’ve never had a police report or anything stolen from my property, or any kind of robbery," Larry English told The Washington Post in a Sunday report.
lawandcrime.com lawandcrime.com
 
42! said:
So now you say the truck was parked and they weren't chasing him. But by the shooters own statements they got their guns and chased him in their truck. So NO the truck wasn't just sitting there. Since the shooter said they followed in the truck I think we can safely assume they passed him and stopped to block his way. As the victim approached the vehicle the shooter was out with his shotgun ready on the left side. The victim went to the right side AWAY from the shooter. The shooter crossed in front of the truck to engage the victim. Here I'll grant you that initial contact was out of sight in front of the truck. But given that they had already chased him in the truck and the shooter went to the victim when he went around the truck to the far side, I would say the shooters intent for an armed confrontation was clear.

Again, you say " it doesn't look like he was being chased" but the shooters own statements contradict this.
Click to expand...

Clearly a pile of folk here neverbenta Jo-Jah. LOL. Northeast Racism is quiet and subtle. Georgia racism??? Not so much. There is a lot more integration and a lot more old-school pre-1960's racism going on at the same time.

Reptile said:
Joe Biden, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, took to Twitter to write that the video is "clear" and Arbery "was killed in cold blood." He wrote that his heart goes out to Arbery's family and called for a transparent investigation into the "murder."
Click to expand...

Isn't it really his fault in the first place????

Guyute said:
T-unit said “I never said I knew what was in the mind of a black man”

Earlier T-unit said
“but for some reason in the Black man's mind everything must be "kept real" and you have to go ghetto when someone has beef with you”
Click to expand...

Have you ever watched commercials for Growin Up Hippity-Hop???? LOL

To be fair, T-Swizzle also pretty much pigeon-holed the GOB's into the "Is that you, John Wayne? Yeah It's me." mentality too. Maybe he was being overly generalistic in all of his "racial" analyses.
 
Reptile said:
HATE HOAX: BLACK MAN ‘CREATED FAKE PROFILE’ OF WHITE TRUMP SUPPORTER TO ISSUE THREATS AGAINST PRO-ARBERY PROTESTERS
Click to expand...
The poor guy who owns the house under construction has heart trouble and wasn’t going to move in. But now he is getting death threats. And he really didn’t do anything to anybody.
 
Picton said:
That wouldn't tell the whole story. Very, very often I go for runs in neighborhoods far from where I live, just for a change of pace.

This guy was a daily runner. Any daily runner craves new routes, often.
Click to expand...
I don't. In fact, the only time I can remember driving somewhere to run was for a race, or to train for that race.
 
IMNSHO. YMMV. C.E. IANAL. Definitely didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night. Still, here's my opinion so far.

In GA open carry of a shotgun is legal. So is effecting a citizen arrest if one has cause to suspect a felony has been committed (ex. theft over $500). And deadly force is permitted in self-defense from a deadly threat. Defending yourself from someone who is likely to shoot you is pretty clear self-defense.

My jury is still out. Clearly Ahmaud was acting suspicious and not just out for a run, but it's not yet clear that was sufficient to justify a citizen's arrest. It does not appear from the videos I've seen that he's carrying any kind of tool or +$500 object, but had there been burglaries sufficient to justify their suspicions. More evidence needed for me.

My $64K question is how was the struggle for the gun initiated. Did Travis point the gun at Ahmaud and approach him, or did Ahmaud come at Travis and attempt to grab the shotgun particularly if it was not initially pointed at him. The videos I've seen to date are not conclusive either way on this point. Again, more evidence needed.

[popcorn]
 

Similar threads

Kennedy is a no vote.
2 3 4
Replies
98
Views
2K
HARRYM
H
Need a good 2A attorney for a friend
2 3 4
Replies
96
Views
2K
Len-2A Training
Len-2A Training
Ohio man, 81, is charged with murder for shooting dead female Uber driver who was called by a scammer to pick up parcel outside his home
Replies
10
Views
307
Toast
Toast
It wasn't me!!! 1 man dead, 3 injured after men on scooters open fire on corner in the Bronx- What a Ruckus!!!
Replies
7
Views
145
VetteGirlMA
VetteGirlMA
Memphis Officer Joseph McKinney was killed this morning in a shootout with a man who had been released without bail ... after being caught with a MG
Replies
19
Views
443
MaverickNH
MaverickNH
Back
Top Bottom