If I understand correctly according to the ATF one may have two residences (two different states). I have property in Vt. and that is where I do most of my shooting. I have some firearms up there already but never bothered pursuing any standing in Vt. as having my firearms there was not an issue and never purchased a firearm up there or needed to. Now with all the crap going on here in Ma. I think I should pursue looking into the two state residence. Does anyone know how and what sort of ID one would need to obtain in VT. and how to accomplish this? I spend quite a bit of time there over the course of a year and as mentioned own property there. I have no intention of bringing anything I purchase in VT. back here to Ma. and no I am not moving there full time any time soon so the "just move there in not an answer".
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Two residences?
- Thread starter ackar
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Do they issue a State ID? If so, I would pursue that. A State ID recognizes you as a person that has holdings in the State and pays property taxes there.
I, too, have dual residency and acquired a State ID from my second State of residence. It wasn't that hard and I did not have to surrender my drivers license from my current State. I spend about 4 months a year in my second State, own property (a few thousand acres) and pay taxes in that State.
I, too, have dual residency and acquired a State ID from my second State of residence. It wasn't that hard and I did not have to surrender my drivers license from my current State. I spend about 4 months a year in my second State, own property (a few thousand acres) and pay taxes in that State.
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Dual residencies can be handled easily by adults that don't overthink things too much. You can even retain your MA resident LTC if you still reside here as well. Just use your VT property docs when buying shit up there and keep those guns up there... done.
-Mike
So I can use a copy of my property tax bill perhaps? Like I do for my snowmobile TMA. I will have to look into this the next time I am back up there. Thanks guys. From everything I have read it is possible I just did not know what kind of ID etc. would suffice and how to obtain one in Vt.
Sure does suck being in Ma.
Sure does suck being in Ma.
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CrackPot
NES Member
I have a house, drivers license, LTC, etc in MA. I have an apartment and a state issued non-drivers ID in Texas. When in Texas I make my purchases using my Texas ID as I am a resident of Texas when present. When in MA I make my purchases with my MA LTC as I am a MA resident when present in MA. I spend about 1/3 of my time in Texas. Don't over think this. It is simple and legal.
jbert27
NES Member
Thank you
They never leave the books in MA. No matter what you do with them.
LittleCalm
NES Member
They do in the sense that a buyer in MA files an FA-10 that supersedes the prior owner's. can file for out of state sales too (MA FFL as buyer).
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wow thanks for the tip. I own a place up in Maine and they state this as fact on the bmv site to get a state id. Gonna get my ID Monday
Individualist
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Do you need to own a dwelling or is land and paying taxes sufficient for dual residence?
TayNinh_66
NES Member
A Massachusetts court can use many criteria to determine your legal residence, beginning with where you pay property taxes, where you file state income tax, where you are registered to vote, where your car is registered, where you receive mail, what state issued your drivers license, where your children are enrolled in school, etc etc. The court will make a case specific finding in each case and will make a decision based upon the specifics of the case.
So just be aware that stepping beyond the reach of the AG's long arm is not 'simple' as others have alleged and the advice of an attorney should be solicited before relying on internet advice regarding establishment of a principal residence in another state.
So just be aware that stepping beyond the reach of the AG's long arm is not 'simple' as others have alleged and the advice of an attorney should be solicited before relying on internet advice regarding establishment of a principal residence in another state.
NorthShore
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The AG in mass is not crossing state lines to grab your AR, lower or any guns. If you own a home and store your firearms at that residence then that's that. Of course the guns need to be legal in that state and it excludes NFA items since you need to request permission to move the SBR across state lines or so I have read.
Individualist
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"For Gun Control Act (GCA) purposes, a person is a resident of a State in which he or she is present with the intention of making a home in that State..."
Ok so you need a place to live, but for how long to you have to reside there? A month? Three? In how many States can you own a dwelling and be a resident?
NorthShore
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Some states if you own property and are living there ( a day, a month, a year) then you are currently a resident. As far as storing firearms I don't see it being a problem but claiming residency.... that's a bigger play. if your not buying firearms then your not filing any govt forms or anything like that. You bring your guns where you want and abide by the states rules. If your taking guns out of mass than its Disney land compared to what you do currently. Your not deemed "unsuitable" for leaving a box of shells on your basement workbench or a loaded mag on your bedroom night stand etc.
babygorilla
NES Member
Dumb question, but could someone rent an apartment in NH, and we all chip in like $1 a month for rent, have some of our mail sent to that address, get NH driver's license's, register vehicles to that address and get insurance on that vehicle at that address, then get MA non-resident LTC's? Might be a lucrative business for someone.....Not sure if there are occupancy limits in NH, that might be the only restriction, not that any of us would actually "live" there.....
CrackPot
NES Member
Don't make this harder than it is. This is not about a principal residence. The ATF only requires that you are a resident of a state to purchase firearms. A college student is a resident of the state in which they go to college. They pay no taxes and are not making a principal residence. If you have a vacation home in Florida, you are a resident of Florida WHEN AT THAT HOME.
That is the determination by the ATF and what matters for purchasing firearms. What makes a resident relative to taxes and other government intrusions is a totally different topic.
babygorilla
NES Member
Ties into my "Dumb question" above.....
LittleCalm
NES Member
I cannot believe ATF going to let folks do that. It's one thing to have a second residence and actually spend meaningful time there throughout the year even though it's not your primary residence. It's entirely another thing to set up a scheme by which to try to take advantage of the dual residency concept. Hope you have the time and money to fight that one. The issue will be one of intent - did you set up the residence for some reason other than to take advantage of the dual residency concept. If you can't with a straight face answer in the affirmative, you gonna lose that fight.
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TayNinh_66
NES Member
It most certainly is about principal residence. It has nothing to do with the ATF. If the Staties stop you with expired license and registration, and decide to impound your car, search your trunk, and find a scary black killy rifle, your claim that you are a resident of Vermont is not going to get very far in Superior Court.
Bring your AR to the range and the local LEO in the next lane decides to hassle you for an illegal assault firearm it is now up to you to prove your innocence. Your Vermont residence claim is not going to get very far. Agree that if you buy and keep weapons at your second residence then it's none of MA business, but that's not what has been proposed in several posts.
ProGun
NES Member
If he leaves the AR in Vermont, he has no problem in MA. He can own a home in VT, buy guns in VT and shoot them there. I don't see anyone saying that residence in another state means you can ignore MA law while inside MA. If you have a home in a free state, leave the black rifles there and you're good.
Yep that is my intent and what I am trying to achieve. It is all about the ATF rules and regs. I am a Ma. resident, have an unrestricted LTC and like everyone else is waiting to see how all this AG stuff shakes out. I have no intention of having illegal/or possibly illegal firearms no LTC and driving around Ma. waiting to get stopped so I can claim free state residence. Then be arrested. Thinking in my circumstance it would be a great idea to have whatever I need to be legal in a free state. Purchace what I want and enjoy it IN the free state. Just thinking that I would be ahead of the curve to be legal there.
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LittleCalm
NES Member
Agreed. I need to figure out how to fill out the NH non-driver ID form. Asks where you get mail and also where do you reside. I'm guessing MA for first question and NH residence for second question.
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