two hypotheticals regarding moving to MA as a gun owner

[srmd22]

I think I have some idea from reading posts here, but it is a bit complicated, so I want to make sure I understand.

1) Say some hypothetical character moves into the state with a handgun in his moving boxes, throws it in his closet while unpacking, and forgets about it, for, say about 10 years. Then he/she gets gets an LTC-A and remembers he has the gun in the back of his closet. Is the legal thing to do at that point to fill out an FA-10, do nothing, since it was brought along when moving into the state, or turn him/herself into the local PD because he did not have the LTC within 60 days of moving?

- ^this one ^, actually, I don't know the answer to, even after reading a bunch of threads on the forum here.

2) Now say the hypothetical character moved, but left his handgun with his parents in another state. The gun was a gift from his dad when he was a kid (pre-ban), but was never registered in the kids name - just gifted to him to keep and use at home. Let's say the character, around 10y after moving to MA, gets an LTC, and wants to bring the gun in.
a) how to do so - can he/she just drive to the parents' house, lock the gun in the trunk of the car and bring it home to MA, across state lines? Or is a ffl-ffl transfer necessary?
b) Do they (I believe the answer is yes) need fill out an FA-10?

-- I am probably wrong, but my current understanding is, yes, since the person owned the gun before moving to MA, even though it was a gift many years ago, you can go get it, and just fill out an FFA - as long as it is MA compliant or pre-ban.

Thanks for any advice, help or opinions.

 

[Len-2A Training]

1.) (a) The legal answer is to turn yourself in to the local PD for prosecution for illegal possession of a handgun for 10 years without a license. MGL C. 269 S. 10 (h) (1) - 2 yr jail sentence and $500 fine. If it wasn't stored in accordance with MGL C. 140 S. 131L - $5K fine and 1 year in the HOC (jail) if a low-capacity handgun or $10K fine and 10 years in prison for a large-capacity handgun. A gangbanger with a rap sheet would get probation and perhaps CWOF for these offenses. A basically "clean" person will likely get convicted of the same offenses and perhaps serve some prison time, making them a MA prohibited person for life.

(b) My guess is that this happens all the time and if they tell anyone and don't post about it on social media or forums, nobody is the wiser. If they ever discover the error of their ways and keep their mouth (and keyboard) shut, they merely go and get licensed and carry on with their lives realizing that they dodged some serious bullets. Since someone moved in with their gun, there is no legal requirement to ever register the gun with the state. NOTE: Large capacity mags MUST be mfd on/before 9/13/1994 to be legal to possess or that is a felony, with or without a LTC.

2.) Ownership doesn't change and other states don't require registration so there is no need for a long paper trail. Any gun you move in with NEVER has to be registered. If you bring it into MA anytime after you move into the state, it MUST be registered. However the online form is intentionally very misleading. ONLY fill out the info about the gun and the new owner info, skip the section asking where you got it, etc. Transportation into MA MUST be in accordance with FOPA. You can look that up in Google or the numerous threads here on the subject.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Ownership doesn't change and other states don't require registration so there is no need for a long paper trail.

NY does, though it is legal (and allowed in many counties) for a gun to be registered to more than one person so that multiple family members can take the same handgun to the range.

 

[Glockster30]

1.) (a) The legal answer is to turn yourself in to the local PD for prosecution for illegal possession of a handgun for 10 years without a license. MGL C. 269 S. 10 (h) (1) - 2 yr jail sentence and $500 fine. If it wasn't stored in accordance with MGL C. 140 S. 131L - $5K fine and 1 year in the HOC (jail) if a low-capacity handgun or $10K fine and 10 years in prison for a large-capacity handgun. A gangbanger with a rap sheet would get probation and perhaps CWOF for these offenses. A basically "clean" person will likely get convicted of the same offenses and perhaps serve some prison time, making them a MA prohibited person for life.

(b) My guess is that this happens all the time and if they tell anyone and don't post about it on social media or forums, nobody is the wiser. If they ever discover the error of their ways and keep their mouth (and keyboard) shut, they merely go and get licensed and carry on with their lives realizing that they dodged some serious bullets. Since someone moved in with their gun, there is no legal requirement to ever register the gun with the state. NOTE: Large capacity mags MUST be mfd on/before 9/13/1994 to be legal to possess or that is a felony, with or without a LTC.

2.) Ownership doesn't change and other states don't require registration so there is no need for a long paper trail. Any gun you move in with NEVER has to be registered. If you bring it into MA anytime after you move into the state, it MUST be registered. However the online form is intentionally very misleading. ONLY fill out the info about the gun and the new owner info, skip the section asking where you got it, etc. Transportation into MA MUST be in accordance with FOPA. You can look that up in Google or the numerous threads here on the subject.

Len,

For my own clarification:

Under scenario "(b)" above, even if he is quiet about the firearm, and if he waits more than 60 days to obtain a LTC and uses the firearm for self-defense (lethal or not, after obtaining his LTC), I would think that the ensuing investigation would probably uncover the fact that he had an illegal firearm in the state. In this case, wouldn't the issue still revert back to scenario "1.) (a)" above..."prosecution for illegal possession of a handgun" for not having his LTC within the 60-day requirement of moving into the state?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

, I would think that the ensuing investigation would probably uncover the fact that he had an illegal firearm in the state

Only is he says something stupid. The system is rigorous about requiring proof. I don't think a prosecution can be based on "we can prove you did A or B, but not which" (in this case, either moving in with a gun and not getting an LTC in 60 days, or getting one illegally out of state).

Also, the 60 day exemption does not cover high cap weapons or magazines (I think Len has the cite).

 

[srmd22]

Len-2A Training: thanks so much for that clear and concise answer to my hypothetical, that is super helpful. In addition, you answered a couple of questions I didn't even know I had, lol!

I do have another question: Do low cap long guns also need to be registered? I believe the answer is yes?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Do low cap long guns also need to be registered?

No difference in eFA-10 reporting requirements.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yes case law pointed out that it is illegal to bring ANY large-cap guns into MA w/o a MA LTC (even if moving in), as there is no exemption in C. 269 S. 10(m)! My meeting a few months ago with a high ranking state official included a request for a "technical correction" in that law, to allow an exemption for moving in. We have ~18 months left in this legislative session to see if this happens.

As Rob points out, most people "convict themselves" due to ignorance and saying things to cops (or post it on the Internet/social media) when they should keep their mouth shut.

To OP, glad to help. It's all part of my 5+ hour MA Gun Law Seminar, for good reason. Most folks are unaware of all the laws with their twists and turns.

 

[Mike-Mike]

I would think that the ensuing investigation would probably uncover the fact that he had an illegal firearm in the state. [/QUOTE

This is not ipso facto proof of a crime as the firearm may have been stored legally with a licensed gun owner.

 

[drgrant]

Len,

For my own clarification:

Under scenario "(b)" above, even if he is quiet about the firearm, and if he waits more than 60 days to obtain a LTC and uses the firearm for self-defense (lethal or not, after obtaining his LTC), I would think that the ensuing investigation would probably uncover the fact that he had an illegal firearm in the state. In this case, wouldn't the issue still revert back to scenario "1.) (a)" above..."prosecution for illegal possession of a handgun" for not having his LTC within the 60-day requirement of moving into the state?

Good luck to them on proving you possessed the gun in MA illegally before you were licensed. Unless the guy runs his mouth and says something really stupid, it's not happening.

-Mike

 

[Len-2A Training]

Good luck to them on proving you possessed the gun in MA illegally before you were licensed. Unless the guy runs his mouth and says something really stupid, it's not happening.

-Mike

You mean like posting on the Internet/FacePlant?

 

[drgrant]

You mean like posting on the Internet/FacePlant?

True but the more he thinks/talks about it, it actually has the function of making the problem worse.

The new gun owner directive in MA should be something like this:

"Get licensed, Shut the **** up about wherever your guns came from. The end"

 

[Glockster30]

Good luck to them on proving you possessed the gun in MA illegally before you were licensed. Unless the guy runs his mouth and says something really stupid, it's not happening.

-Mike

I'm not sure if you missed my point. However, if the firearm is not registered, which is not required when moving into the state, then where did the guy get the firearm 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, or whatever without an LTC in the first place, and then use it in self-defense after getting his LTC? If the firearm was used before obtaining his LTC, then it would be a no-brainer.

However, in this state, I would think that anyone that used a firearm for lethal defense would cause the DA to do a very thorough investigation as to how and when the firearm was acquired. The DA investigation would also include previous addresses, so they would know when the guy moved into the state. Therefore, I don't think that this issue is as clear as everyone thinks it is.

They never found the gun used by Aaron Hernandez, but he was still convicted of murder.

 

[drgrant]

I'm not sure if you missed my point. However, if the firearm is not registered, which is not required when moving into the state, then where did the guy get the firearm 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, or whatever without an LTC in the first place, and then use it in self-defense after getting his LTC? If the firearm was used before obtaining his LTC, then it would be a no-brainer.

None of that matters. S128A/B "registration" crap is a an issue wholly separate from legality of possession. (and about 100 times harder to prosecute). You're looking for a problem that doesn't actually exist. Tons of people have guns illegally in MA every day (intentionally or otherwise) and get LTCs after the fact, and nobody ends up getting prosecuted for it because obtaining the LTC essentially moots the issue. Even in MA the state has little interest in doing something that retarded.

They never found the gun used by Aaron Hernandez, but he was still convicted of murder.

Strawman which has nothing to do with the case at hand.

-Mike

 

[srmd22]

I agree, a lot of this is very unlikely to ever be a problem, except in very unusual circumstances. However, there is always a possibility of those unusual circumstances occurring, so the more clarification the better. With regards to comments on making the mistake of posting to a forum and thereby risking self-incrimination - the situations I presented are actually hypothetical. The few handguns I own were completely legally acquired. Should I acquire any more, they would also be completely legally acquired. I have not compromised myself with this post - but I do thank those who bring that possibility up for their concern, and for warning potential future posters of the hazards. I would point out that it is very difficult for some people to get ANY information on some of these issues - aside from literal copies of the relevant statutes, sans interpretation, depending on their community and circle of friends, so, risky though it may be at times, this forum, and those like it, are often still the best option. Not everyone wants to pay a large legal fee for advice that may or may not be helpful or informative (not meant as a criticism of lawyers, just something which does happen sometimes).