Trust vs. Individual

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With the ability to assign an NFA item to a trust going away soon, is it worth it to form a trust (given the associated expenses) or go the individual route while living in a green town?
 
Its not "going away". The process may or may not be changing. Right now the biggest advantage is you can e-file, which speeds up the processing time dramatically... Trusts also enable lawful possession by more than one person, if desired.... which IMHO is a -huge- benefit.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
Its not "going away". The process may or may not be changing.
Emphasis mine.

Other than the extra initial expense , there's no good reason NOT to go with a trust. Another big advantage of a trust is that if you ever plan on doing a Form 1 (e.g. to make an SBR), you probably don't want to engrave your full name.
 
It's a bit more expensive than Quicken willmaker :)

The "guntrust.com" form-fill trust creates a trust that is valid, but with some typos and inconsistent wording. I suspect some of the oddities in the resulting PDF might be part of their watermarking efforts, but since I've only seen one of their trusts, I can't say that for sure.
 
no but i used the firm that created that one an their products are tight, i would call and make sure that one is backed by the firm if anything happened.
 
IMHO, no good reason not to use a $199 "guntrust.com" trust for your NFA purchases.

We should meet up some time and compare the raw text from two "guntrust.com" trusts. I'm curious whether they change some of the wording for each customer as part of their "watermarking", this could explain some of the strange phrasing I see in the generated PDF file. There was one place where the terminology used was just not "right", but nothing that would invalidate the trust (IANAL, YMMV, TANSTAAFL)

You get what you pay for, but there is no good reason not to use a $199 "guntrust.com" trust for your NFA purchases in New Hampshire. I wouldn't use the PDF trust for a million dollar trust fund meant to direct some of my wealth away from a second wife to an illegitimate daughter living in Costa Rica upon my untimely demise, but "guntrust.com" trusts are fine for their intended purpose.
 
let me know if you guys ever meet up, ill bring the one that was drawn up by the lawyer himself, mine came to around 500 i think.
 
might be fun to do. i'm waiting on my corrected form still, otherwise i'd already have a form 4 in as well on a can. i am not sure my shit is kosher anymore since it did its thing in MA and then i moved. we'll see.
 
How do you guys name your NFA trusts? Can it be called anything, or does it have to have trust creators name, like Joe Shmoe NFA Trust?
 
My Form-1 silencer will be under the name "Who can you Trust"

How do you guys name your NFA trusts? Can it be called anything, or does it have to have trust creators name, like Joe Shmoe NFA Trust?
The rules for formation of a revokable living trust (non-NFA-specific) vary by state.

In general you can use pretty much any non-obscene word or phrase followed by "Trust". If you intend to "make" an SBR or other NFA item you'll need to have the name engraved on the new item, so a shorter name is generally better.
 
example, i went with JDH Trust, sweet an to the point and easily fits on any receiver for the engraving portion.
 
Is it required to have a separate trust bank account, or can the trustee's account be used to pay the stamp fee ($200) ? In other words, did you open a trust checking account or not?
 
A trust must have assets to legally exist

Is it required to have a separate trust bank account, or can the trustee's account be used to pay the stamp fee ($200) ? In other words, did you open a trust checking account or not?
Best practice is to open a trust banking account. Some people will just buy a postal money order for the $200 stamp fee.

A trust must have assets to legally exist. One way to ensure a newly formed trust has legal assets is to [thread=151704]open a bank account in the name of the trust[/thread] and deposit the necessary funds (plus whatever is needed to keep the account open after BATFE gets paid). Once the trust buys a gun and a tax stamp, the bank account is no longer necessary, you don't need to keep it open indefinitely.
 
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Best practice is to open a trust banking account. Some people will just buy a postal money order for the $200 stamp fee.

A trust must have assets to legally exist. One way to ensure a newly formed trust has legal assets is to [thread=151704]open a bank account in the name of the trust[/thread] and deposit the necessary funds (plus whatever is needed to keep the account open after BATFE gets paid). Once the trust buys a gun and a tax stamp, the bank account is no longer necessary, you don't need to keep it open indefinitely.

I understand, the trust must have assets to exist. What about transferring a firearm (or a receiver) to a trust prior to converting it into an SBR? It can be included on Schedule A of a newly formed trust. Would this work? Then the stamp could be paid by a check from trustee checking account.
 
you have to transfer the firearm or reciever into the trust before you file for the stamp, the trust and assignment page need to go with it to the ATF.
 
Making an SBR? Use the eForm, don't send a paper check at all

What about transferring a firearm (or a receiver) to a trust prior to converting it into an SBR? It can be included on Schedule A of a newly formed trust. Would this work?
Sure. OTOH, if you're doing an SBR on a trust, you will want to do the [thread=222017]eForm[/thread] and make your tax payment via pay.gov.

Then the stamp could be paid by a check from trustee checking account.
It appears that many, many people with NFA trusts pay for the tax stamp with a trustee's personal check. No red flag.

The check is separated from the other paperwork during initial processing (mine are usually cashed within a week of mailing), so it isn't as if the NFA examiner sees your tax check at all.
 
you have to transfer the firearm or reciever into the trust before you file for the stamp, the trust and assignment page need to go with it to the ATF.

So what do the Schedule A (Assignment page?) should list prior to filing for the stamp? Should it be:

1. Checking Account (if any) # XXXXXXX at the Bank XXXXXXX located XXXXXXX.
2. Colt Sporter Hbar S.N. XXXXXX (if this is the rifle or receiver that I intend to SBR).
3. Any other firearm or receiver that I intend to SBR.

Also, do I specify just the name of the manufacturer and the model for the firearm below, or shall I specify that it's just a receiver if it's not a full rifle as or right now?
 
not sure what your assignment page looks like but mine goes, make, model, serial number. thats all i put, i would do a seperate assignment page for each weapon when it goes in for the stamp.
 
I don't have a so-called Assignment page.
I did the trust from this on-line source:
http://www.doityourselfdocuments.com/Estateplanning/Trust/nfaTrust.aspx

Here is what they provided in the instructions:

The trust provides SCHEDULE “A” TO THE TRUST:
To exist, a trust must have a “corpus” (i.e., the “body”), so it is necessary to initially fund the trust and then additional assets (e.g., the firearms) can be transferred to an existing trust. You should indicate the amount being used to initially open the trust checking account (this can be as small as $10); if you have existing firearms which will be initially transferred to the trust with the Bill of Sale (see below), you should list these items as well. You and the co-Trustee should sign the Schedule “A” concurrently with the signing of the trust.

Also, they provided REVISED SCHEDULE “A” TO THE NFA FIREARMS TRUST. The revised schedule should be completed as you acquire assets owned by the trust; at a minimum, the revised schedule should show the trust’s checking account (which can be entered as “1. Checking Account #:____________ located at [Bank’s Name], [Bank’s Address].”) and the restricted firearm(s) purchased for the trust (which should include a description of the item, the manufacturer and any identifying numbers). Again, you and the co-Trustee should sign the Revised Schedule “A” each time there are changes (i.e., additions and/or deletions); only the latest revision needs to be kept with the trust (Note: this is not an “amendment” as discussed in the previous paragraph).
 
Just called ATF @ 304-616-4500 and got it all explained.

One DOES NOT list on Schedule A a firearm or receiver that is intended to be converted into SBR. It will be transferred to the trust AFTER getting the tax stamp. If it's a new trust and it does not own any NFA items yet, just submit an empty Schedule A.
 
Just called ATF @ 304-616-4500 and got it all explained. One DOES NOT list on Schedule A a firearm or receiver that is intended to be converted into SBR. It will be transferred to the trust AFTER getting the tax stamp. If it's a new trust and it does not own any NFA items yet, just submit an empty Schedule A.
I'm not sure about MA, but in general, for a trust to be valid, the trust must have assets. An trust that uses a "Schedule A" must list something on the schedule or it is not a valid trust. Some people just list $10
 
Lets say I have a Trust drawn up, and receive a stamp for an NFA item where I am living today, lets call it "Residence A". Next year, I move to another state, call it "Residence B", do I need to adjust the trust? Engravings? As an individual I know there I have to arrange with the ATF before the NFA item crosses state lines temp or permanent, but what about my $700 trust, and 'permanently scarred/engraved items? Are those required to be updated/revised? [thinking]
 
the permanently engraved items were already NFA items, already manufactured and engraved, and the engraving is where they are "manufactured". so those are fine.

as for the trust? some folks get new ones in their states, i did not. i have yet to receive a yes or no on my form, so i can't tell you how well keeping the trust from state A works if you're now in state B.

i can tell you DON'T MOVE while you have shit in process, just don't do it. it has been a massive headache for me. if you're gonna move and already have NFA items, you MUST do a 5320, you can't move them without an approved 5320.

my original form was kicked back for corrections when i moved as the address was wrong now that it'll be in a new state the address needs to reflect that, and so does the engraving as it'll be manufactured in the new state.
 
Oh no! Engraved-moved-re-engraved? Bummer. For the prices they want for these NFA trusts, its seems unlikely I would be able to have a new one every time I move. Yikes.

As far as moving is concerned, I have a couple more years up here in Siberia so it BETTER not be an issue. Was your move inter-state or just in state?

Thanks!

the permanently engraved items were already NFA items, already manufactured and engraved, and the engraving is where they are "manufactured". so those are fine.

as for the trust? some folks get new ones in their states, i did not. i have yet to receive a yes or no on my form, so i can't tell you how well keeping the trust from state A works if you're now in state B.

i can tell you DON'T MOVE while you have shit in process, just don't do it. it has been a massive headache for me. if you're gonna move and already have NFA items, you MUST do a 5320, you can't move them without an approved 5320.

my original form was kicked back for corrections when i moved as the address was wrong now that it'll be in a new state the address needs to reflect that, and so does the engraving as it'll be manufactured in the new state.
 
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