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Trust/rely on no cops.
- Thread starter gunofthrones
- Start date
The primary concern of any cop is always officer safety. IE: Themselves
They waited three hours to intervene in the Pulse nightclub shooting citing officer safety. It's nice to know when there's an active shooter and people are dying when seconds count the police are three hours away.
The Supreme Court has ruled repeatedly that the police have no obligation to protect individuals and held that stance for about 40 years or so. More people need to know that and understand what it means.
They waited three hours to intervene in the Pulse nightclub shooting citing officer safety. It's nice to know when there's an active shooter and people are dying when seconds count the police are three hours away.
The Supreme Court has ruled repeatedly that the police have no obligation to protect individuals and held that stance for about 40 years or so. More people need to know that and understand what it means.
So there's no guarantee or legal obligation. Alternatively you clowns could turn on the TV and realize that the majority of the time a bunch of these dudes are running into harms way. You could also call 911 and there's a 99% chance they'd be there pretty damn quick if you are in Mass. Not saying you shouldn't care for yourself.
Now I'll wait for everyone to tell me I'm wrong. Maybe one of you will even have an anecdote that is your own.
Now I'll wait for everyone to tell me I'm wrong. Maybe one of you will even have an anecdote that is your own.
I've posted it before, but a video from the man himself describing what happened in the incident depicted in the OP's video. Crazy!
Yes but they only show that. They will never show the officers watching their own shoot his wife and get a personal hug walk away from the scene....not on these shows.
I give credit to those who decide to deal with the BS you deal with but you chose that job.
God bless
The only thing we can hope for is good people do the right thing when they should.
You kinda have to side with the USSC here, you can't have the city or state getting sued every time someone dies
But in an active shooter/slasher scenario they should be sending every cop they have at him. They have swat teams riding around in MRAPS and Bearcats and Rooks. They have shields, body armor, helmets, and always have equal or better weapons and more people. Anything longer than a regroup and breach in an active shooting scenario, and the deaths start to fall on the PD.
I get concerned when a non-military agency can force its members under criminal penalty or worse to potentially go to their deaths. There is a moral argument that the above should be true, certainly I'd like to hope that would be the response (and it seems that is the case in the vast majority of the incidents), but attributing liability to what is ultimately an employee for not walking into a fusillade of gunfire doesn't sit right with me. We reserve that OBLIGATION for the military.
DPR
NES Member
It's called doing your job. Fireman sign up to go into burning buildings. Cops sign up to get bad guys. If you're afraid to do your job because you may be injured or die then it's time to find another job.
I don't disagree at all, but short of losing your job I don't believe it is a good idea to find criminal responsibility for someone who opts not to do the tough thing when they have to.
Mike
Mike
Well I would side on there is a finite limit to what is required by the job. If you refuse to go into any burning building as a firefighter that's a problem. However, if the fire has fundamentally impacted the structure of the building to the point that it is likely to cause more harm than good to enter I am cool with them fighting it only from the outside as my house burns. I am not going to throw a fit if my house burns down completely because there was a 10% chance it could have been saved if they went in but a 90% chance at least one guy was going to die in there.
Criminally responsible? They aren't even held civily accountable! The cases related didn't have anything to do with criminal responsibility!
You don't have an issue that cops can wrongly kill someone because they were scared but can also run and hide and refuse to help someone?
That I reject. They definitely shouldn't get it both ways. Either cops have to follow the same rules as we do or their extra power comes with extra responsibility.
It's totally preverse to give them more power and less responsibility, which is exactly what they have.
That I reject. They definitely shouldn't get it both ways. Either cops have to follow the same rules as we do or their extra power comes with extra responsibility.
It's totally preverse to give them more power and less responsibility, which is exactly what they have.
This is how I view things.
Police are human.
I do not trust other humans.
Ergo, you should not trust the police.
Actually mentality wise cops are similar to doctors, both deal with the unsavory side of humanity on a regular basis and develop a certain set of mind as a result.
Police are human.
I do not trust other humans.
Ergo, you should not trust the police.
Actually mentality wise cops are similar to doctors, both deal with the unsavory side of humanity on a regular basis and develop a certain set of mind as a result.
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that video was hilarious, but infuriating.
So to re-cap: Cops have no duty to protect you...That fancy "protect and serve" slogan on their car just sounds good and is mostly decorative. Moreover, if you're in MA, not only do the cops have no duty to protect you but it's strongly discouraged that you help yourself. Basically just die and stop being a little bitch about it.
So to re-cap: Cops have no duty to protect you...That fancy "protect and serve" slogan on their car just sounds good and is mostly decorative. Moreover, if you're in MA, not only do the cops have no duty to protect you but it's strongly discouraged that you help yourself. Basically just die and stop being a little bitch about it.
richc
NES Member
Or they save your Mom's life when she's bleeding out due to a bad cut and blood thinners. Or they put their lives on the line saving innocent people during a critical situation.
You can't think every LEO is the same, anymore than you can consider anyone you meet on the street the same. There's nice people and there are a**h***s.
Personally, under any notion of a potential legal or criminal situation, I'd be firm in asking for a lawyer. You know who told me that? A MSP I used to golf with. Say nothing. Ask for a lawyer. Because you just don't know if the LEO you're dealing with is a nice guy or an a**h***. And I'll go so far as to say most are decent human beings.
Within any class of people there's good or bad. Personally I've made my life better by only hanging with good people. I don't hang with a**h***s.
But there's folks on NES who I knew are LEO and I'd trust them with my life. And there are others who I'd rather not meet at all.
It's human nature, guys and gals. There's good and bad among all slices of humans.
You can't think every LEO is the same, anymore than you can consider anyone you meet on the street the same. There's nice people and there are a**h***s.
Personally, under any notion of a potential legal or criminal situation, I'd be firm in asking for a lawyer. You know who told me that? A MSP I used to golf with. Say nothing. Ask for a lawyer. Because you just don't know if the LEO you're dealing with is a nice guy or an a**h***. And I'll go so far as to say most are decent human beings.
Within any class of people there's good or bad. Personally I've made my life better by only hanging with good people. I don't hang with a**h***s.
But there's folks on NES who I knew are LEO and I'd trust them with my life. And there are others who I'd rather not meet at all.
It's human nature, guys and gals. There's good and bad among all slices of humans.
greencobra
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my dad was a wise man. when i was young, in the 50's, he told me if i ever had a problem, find a policeman. when i was in high school he told me you run into a problem or trouble, yes sir them to death, get your ass home, and we'll figure it out. don't give 'em a reason. he saw the friendly beat cop turning into a para military thug.
That's an interesting perspective I haven't heard before. The only issue I take with it is that it is quite often shoved in "civilians" faces how cops are standing on the front line between us and scourge of society. I think most cops wouldn't consider themselves civilians or carry themselves in that manner. Durask put it perfectly, cops are humans and I don't trust other humans.
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I understand that. When cops deal with schizos, crazies, and psychos everyday I know that it drains them so much they resort to drugs, alcohol, and sometimes becomes schizos themselves. It's why I support disarming Lore Officers on patrol because they're a danger to themselves and others. SWAT teams should be armed of course, there are situations when a highly trained team needs to be dispatched to deal with the situation.
But I do trust the average person more than I trust cops because the average person is just trying to get by like me. The average cop is looking to feed his own ego and wallet by whatever means he can get away with.
I agree that organizations and agencies push an us and them mentality -- its even codified in law that they get special privileges unrelated to their job, so in some sense, it is true.
I'm simply stating that I don't think cops should be obligated to die to protect, and neither should firefighters for that matter. That said, if they are entirely unwilling to take risks, they probably shouldn't be in that line of work.
Mike
I'm simply stating that I don't think cops should be obligated to die to protect, and neither should firefighters for that matter. That said, if they are entirely unwilling to take risks, they probably shouldn't be in that line of work.
Mike
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