Trump gun control, update post 529 Trump No Longer Backing “Red Flag” Law, Background Check Changes

69705035_10215933736442401_1664284408267407360_n.jpg
 
Lol Snowden probably read this article and said something like "Trump is a bit behind the curve, they've been developing this for a decade now".

The only thing stopping this from being a 110% horror show right now is institutional sloth by lower order government figures.... that and there's no federal bribe money for gun owners yet like there is for drug busts....
 
What is being discussed here on this thread was already implemented. It was implemented here and it was implemented in many other countries also. China has "the best solution", Israel is second, Russia third and we are somewhere behind Vietnam and South Korea.

The problem with technical spying is the interpretation which is still done by humans. And humans make serious mistakes. Brother Tsarnaevs were in the system, were "red flagged" but were also missed. So were other terrorist in France, UK and Germany.

Your protection is not to bark here or complain here. Acknowledge the simple fact and ACT ACCORDINGLY! I have warned you many times: Stay away from the Facebook and other social media in which you expose your personal lives. All of that SERVES to somebody.

Trump right now has no continuation. We need to work on it. GOP ain't it! We either become more active inside of GOP or we have another 4 years to start 3rd party which will probably not succeed in our lifetime. Option to change GOP sound better in the short term.

Trump is not your god or you savior, but you have nobody else to vote for in 2020 and staying home is pretty lame. Trump is old news now. He will get another 4 but we have nothing, NADA, after that. That worries me a lot and you should be scared too!
 
https://dailycaller.com/2019/08/22/trump-gun-control-background/

The Trump administration is considering a proposal that would use Google, Amazon and Apple to collect data on users who exhibit characteristics of mental illness that could lead to violent behavior, The Washington Post reported Thursday.

The proposal is part of an initiative to create a Health Advanced Research Projects Agency (HARPA), which would be located inside the Health and Human Services Department, the report notes, citing sources inside the administration. The new agency would have a separate budget and the president would be responsible for appointing its director.

HARPA would take after Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, or DARPA, which serves as the research arm for the Pentagon. The idea was first crafted in 2017 but has since gotten a renewed push after mass shootings killed 31 people in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, in August.

The Suzanne Wright Foundation approached the president recently and proposed the agency include a project called Stopping Aberrant Fatal Events by Helping Overcome Mental Extremes, or Safe Home, the report notes, citing two people familiar with the matter.

President Donald Trump has a close relationship with Bob Wright, who founded the foundation after his wife died of cancer. Wright was a former chair of NBC and occupied that position while the president hosted “The Apprentice.” (RELATED: 20 People Dead After El Paso Shooting, Governor Says)

HARPA would develop “breakthrough technologies with high specificity and sensitivity for early diagnosis of neuropsychiatric violence,” according to a copy of the proposal. “A multi-modality solution, along with real-time data analytics, is needed to achieve such an accurate diagnosis.”

The document lists several technologies that could be employed to help collect information, including Apple Watches, Amazon Echo and Google Home. Geoffrey Ling, the lead scientific adviser on HARPA, told reporters Thursday the plan would require enormous amounts of data and “scientific rigor.”

He added: “Everybody would be a volunteer. We’re not inventing new science here. We’re analyzing it so we can develop new approaches.” The White House declined to provide the Daily Caller News Foundation with a statement but sources told WaPo that Trump has reacted “very positively” to the proposal — it is unclear if he has seen the Safe Home idea.

Google and Amazon have also not responded to the DCNF’s requests for comment.

Trump said mentally ill people are responsible for the uptick in mass shootings. “I do want people to remember the words ‘mental illness.’ These people are mentally ill. … I think we have to start building institutions again because, you know, if you look at the ’60s and ’70s, so many of these institutions were closed,” he said on Aug. 15. The president has also floatedthe possibility of supporting background checks.

The president has an icy relationship with both Google and Amazon. Trump told his Twitter followers Monday that Google manipulated votes to help former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton ahead of the 2016 presidential election. “My victory was even bigger than thought!” he added. Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos has long been a whipping boy for the president.

Some here considers this "Trump winning again".


... carry on.
 
Duh

Trump Aides’ Poll Finds Gun Control Politically Problematic for the President

President Trump assured Senator Joe Manchin III, Democrat of West Virginia, on Thursday that he was still considering legislation that could include background checks for gun buyers. But White House aides said they had polling data showing that gun control was politically problematic for the president, according to two people briefed on the meeting.

Inside the White House, the issue of new gun control measures has largely been theoretical. Senator Mitch McConnell, Republican of Kentucky and the majority leader, has cautioned that it will be the president who will have to press his party to act. To help guide Mr. Trump’s decision-making, White House aides commissioned a poll to determine where his supporters stood on different measures.


For his part, the president has sent conflicting signals about his plans, depending on with whom he is speaking, and the issue has taken on a new urgency after a shooting spree in West Texas over the weekend.

Days after consecutive shootings in El Paso and Dayton, Ohio, in early August, Mr. Trump said that he wanted to pursue what he described as “very meaningful background checks.” But that resolve appeared to soften amid concerns from the National Rifle Association and some of his closest advisers and family members, including his eldest son, Donald Trump Jr. The president, reverting to a stance he has taken since the 2016 campaign, has subsequently focused more on mental health issues and the deficiencies in treating them.

Two weeks ago, Mr. Trump indicated to the chief of the N.R.A., Wayne LaPierre, that he did not intend to pursue major legislation on background checks, but that he planned to scrutinize other options.

And with the Senate in recess in August, any momentum behind major legislation appeared to stall.

Mr. Trump and Mr. Manchin met for about 30 minutes on Thursday at the White House after the president presented the Medal of Freedom to Jerry West, a former N.B.A. star. CNN first reported that the meeting occurred.

Mr. Trump’s aides were on hand for the meeting, and the president told Mr. Manchin that a background checks bill that the senator had pushed for with a Republican counterpart, Senator Patrick J. Toomey, Republican of Pennsylvania, was still on the table, according to the people briefed on the discussion.

But the polling data, White House aides said, indicated that the issue does not help the president with his core base of supporters, according to the people briefed on the meeting.

People familiar with the meeting said a number of different options of gun measures were discussed. But those familiar with the meeting said the president’s likeliest course of action was a menu of smaller items, like a slimmer version of a background checks bill and “red flag” laws, which allow the authorities to temporarily confiscate firearms from those who are found by a judge to be a danger to themselves or to others.

A White House spokesman did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
 
Implementing the current law as written would be a good start. That would include people who fail a NICS check because they lied on their 4473 about being previously convicted of a crime and being prohibited.

Of course it would also be nice if the law was amended so that becoming a PP applied to dangerous people, not people who committed a non violent crime.
 
Implementing the current law as written would be a good start.

I’d always thought “enforce the existing laws” too but never really gave much thought on how that’s done. This case has some details on how NICS works (or doesn’t) that are very interesting https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/charleston.pdf It was fascinating to find that the protocol required a request for information to an agency but no requirement for follow-up if the agency didn’t respond.

Most new laws, gun laws included, have an implementation date and responsible agency but seldom any funding provisions. At some point, agency managers are forced to decide what slips and what doesn’t slip. When a a foster child is abused, or a nursing home patient dies, or a licensed gun owner becomes a prohibited person and kills people, the media slam the agency and their head resigns. And it starts all over again. “There ought be a law” comes with “There ought to be staff, training and funding to implement the law.”

The “Background Check” system is standardized at the federal level but quite variable at the state level. Some states have passed CCW provisions for Shall-Issue but then the Democratic administrations cut budgets of departments charged with implementing the systems, so that throughput was diminished. Or licenses not revoked if subsequently disqualified by felony conviction, etc. Their aim is to harass gun owners, not serve and protect the public.

The odds are probably greater NICS would pass a prohibited person than wrongly delay an honest man! It’s only criminals’ avoidance of FFLs that keeps “legal guns” out of their hands - the “illegal guns” shoot well enough for them.
 
Duh

Trump Aides’ Poll Finds Gun Control Politically Problematic for the President

President Trump assured Senator Joe Manchin III, Democrat of West Virginia, on Thursday that he was still considering legislation that could include background checks for gun buyers. But White House aides said they had polling data showing that gun control was politically problematic for the president, according to two people briefed on the meeting.

Inside the White House, the issue of new gun control measures has largely been theoretical. Senator Mitch McConnell, Republican of Kentucky and the majority leader, has cautioned that it will be the president who will have to press his party to act. To help guide Mr. Trump’s decision-making, White House aides commissioned a poll to determine where his supporters stood on different measures.


For his part, the president has sent conflicting signals about his plans, depending on with whom he is speaking, and the issue has taken on a new urgency after a shooting spree in West Texas over the weekend.

Days after consecutive shootings in El Paso and Dayton, Ohio, in early August, Mr. Trump said that he wanted to pursue what he described as “very meaningful background checks.” But that resolve appeared to soften amid concerns from the National Rifle Association and some of his closest advisers and family members, including his eldest son, Donald Trump Jr. The president, reverting to a stance he has taken since the 2016 campaign, has subsequently focused more on mental health issues and the deficiencies in treating them.

Two weeks ago, Mr. Trump indicated to the chief of the N.R.A., Wayne LaPierre, that he did not intend to pursue major legislation on background checks, but that he planned to scrutinize other options.

And with the Senate in recess in August, any momentum behind major legislation appeared to stall.

Mr. Trump and Mr. Manchin met for about 30 minutes on Thursday at the White House after the president presented the Medal of Freedom to Jerry West, a former N.B.A. star. CNN first reported that the meeting occurred.

Mr. Trump’s aides were on hand for the meeting, and the president told Mr. Manchin that a background checks bill that the senator had pushed for with a Republican counterpart, Senator Patrick J. Toomey, Republican of Pennsylvania, was still on the table, according to the people briefed on the discussion.

But the polling data, White House aides said, indicated that the issue does not help the president with his core base of supporters, according to the people briefed on the meeting.

People familiar with the meeting said a number of different options of gun measures were discussed. But those familiar with the meeting said the president’s likeliest course of action was a menu of smaller items, like a slimmer version of a background checks bill and “red flag” laws, which allow the authorities to temporarily confiscate firearms from those who are found by a judge to be a danger to themselves or to others.

A White House spokesman did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
There's nothing f*cking "Temporary" about it.
 
I guess we'll have to wait and see if it's true

Sources: Trump No Longer Backing "Red Flag" Law, Background Check Changes

The Trump White House is quietly reaching out to Second Amendment organizations and high-level supporters to let them know that the President is no longer backing any form of “red flag” firearms legislation or changes to the current background check laws, according to sources familiar with the conversations.

According to one individual who spoke to Bearing Arms on the condition of anonymity, the White House is instead looking to focus efforts on mental health, and is “looking at something along the lines of Cornyn’s bill”, a reference to John Cornyn’s RESPONSE Act unveiled this week. The source was careful to point out, however, that the White House has not endorsed the Cornyn proposal, and may not be on board with all of the provisions.

Gun control was pushed to the sidelines as Democrats kicked off their impeachment campaign, though one industry figure believes it was Beto O’Rourke and his push to ban and confiscate so-called “assault weapons” that scuttled the discussions between the White House and gun control supporters in Congress, not the impeachment proceedings themselves.

The news that the White House won’t support any new gun control measures will almost certainly have an impact on Capitol Hill, where Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has said he will only bring up legislation that the president is willing to sign. If the president is no longer willing to sign a red flag law or some expansion to the current background requirements, we’re not likely to see a vote held at all. That will infuriate gun control activists, who are already planning on spending millions of dollars to unseat the Senate majority leader next November.

Gun owners are a key constituency in the Trump re-election coalition, so perhaps it’s just good politics to stay on the good side of Second Amendment supporters and not endorse any gun control proposals. Still, according to one industry insider, the president wants to do something “that will save lives”, and has decided that focusing on mental health is the better way to go. Considering the rise in suicide rates, including non-firearm related suicides, that’s a pretty good idea.

According to one source familiar with one conversation between White House officials and a Second Amendment advocate, the officials didn’t get into specific mental health proposals, but a key point seems to be improving access to treatment, both in-patient and out-patient care. President Trump has talked about his desire to open new mental health hospitals, but hasn’t said how many new hospitals he’d like to see, or where the money would come to pay for construction and staffing. Gun control activists, meanwhile, have complained that focusing on mental health instead of gun bans, “red flag” laws, and background check bills won’t do anything to address the issue of active assailant attacks and gun-related violence.

I think it’s a wise move for the president to back away from the gun control policies he’d previously expressed support for, both politically and from a policy perspective. I look forward to hearing mental health proposals from the president in the near future, but I’d also encourage the White House to take a look at some other policies to address violent crime, including expansion of the Project Ceasefire programs currently funded by the Department of Justice. There are several great ideas on how to reduce violent crime without trying to ban or arrest our way to safety, and that’s one that’s deserving of presidential attention and support.
 
The left has really overplayed their hand and engaged in significant Red Flag abuse in many states across the country already. Since Trump is already dealing with a malicious prosecution of his own, he probably was spoken to enough by enough 2A people to make the connection and 'get it'.

It is also quite evident that a lot societal problems in terms of criminals, addicts, and the chronically homeless are rooted in mental health issues that require mental institutions we don't have sufficient numbers of.
 
The left has really overplayed their hand and engaged in significant Red Flag abuse in many states across the country already. Since Trump is already dealing with a malicious prosecution of his own, he probably was spoken to enough by enough 2A people to make the connection and 'get it'.

It is also quite evident that a lot societal problems in terms of criminals, addicts, and the chronically homeless are rooted in mental health issues that require mental institutions we don't have sufficient numbers of.

Not only the ERPO stuff but the left has come unhinged and going for flat out confiscation
 
Not only the ERPO stuff but the left has come unhinged and going for flat out confiscation

Well... that too.

Makes it obvious that there is no 'compromise'. One side wants it all and is willing to stamp a boot on your face until they have it or you are dead.
 
Better to have a guy flip flop then dig in his heels and ride a bad position into the ground to avoid an ego bruising no?
 
Well... that too.

Makes it obvious that there is no 'compromise'. One side wants it all and is willing to stamp a boot on your face until they have it or you are dead.

The only good thing now is that they have gone too far too long to walk it back and say "Just kidding" or "That's not what I really ment."
 
Well... that too.

Makes it obvious that there is no 'compromise'. One side wants it all and is willing to stamp a boot on your face until they have it or you are dead.

The only good thing now is that they have gone too far too long to walk it back and say "Just kidding" or "That's not what I really ment."

This may be the push we needed for some people on the fence(Fudds included) to pay attention
 
Well... that too.
Makes it obvious that there is no 'compromise'. One side wants it all and is willing to stamp a boot on your face until they have it or you are dead.

Yeah, I think Beto took the position to the extreme and it is crystal clear that there shall never be any compromise beyond the current position on the slippery slope.
 
We have some screwy laws here in NH that are prime/ripe for abuse.....

Commission wants to create mental health courts statewide

“The county commissioners said show us the money, where were the savings and they were clearly in the house of corrections,” Stearns said referring to less spending on county jail lockups. “There is not a savings to the court, but there is a savings in the bed days and the savings in the medication that the county had to prescribe. It was as high as $500,000 in a single year in Hillsborough County,” Stearns said. Corrections Commissioner Helen Hanks said the savings is typically not in staff but in less overtime as the caseloads for correction officers are more manageable and sometimes building maintenance costs are cut.”

I didn’t read anything about benefit to the mentally ill in terms of support, assistance and treatment - just saving in money. If a mentally ill persons with some history of violence does *not* have a gun, how does serving them with an ERPOs and leaving them on the street help?

Wave 1 was deinstitutionalizing the mentally ill and closing treatment centers. The “safety net” then became police, hospitals and jails. Wave 2 is when they are simply transported out of town by authorities.
 
https://dailycaller.com/2019/08/22/trump-gun-control-background/

The Trump administration is considering a proposal that would use Google, Amazon and Apple to collect data on users who exhibit characteristics of mental illness that could lead to violent behavior, The Washington Post reported Thursday.

The proposal is part of an initiative to create a Health Advanced Research Projects Agency (HARPA), which would be located inside the Health and Human Services Department, the report notes, citing sources inside the administration. The new agency would have a separate budget and the president would be responsible for appointing its director.

HARPA would take after Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, or DARPA, which serves as the research arm for the Pentagon. The idea was first crafted in 2017 but has since gotten a renewed push after mass shootings killed 31 people in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, in August.

The Suzanne Wright Foundation approached the president recently and proposed the agency include a project called Stopping Aberrant Fatal Events by Helping Overcome Mental Extremes, or Safe Home, the report notes, citing two people familiar with the matter.

President Donald Trump has a close relationship with Bob Wright, who founded the foundation after his wife died of cancer. Wright was a former chair of NBC and occupied that position while the president hosted “The Apprentice.” (RELATED: 20 People Dead After El Paso Shooting, Governor Says)

HARPA would develop “breakthrough technologies with high specificity and sensitivity for early diagnosis of neuropsychiatric violence,” according to a copy of the proposal. “A multi-modality solution, along with real-time data analytics, is needed to achieve such an accurate diagnosis.”

The document lists several technologies that could be employed to help collect information, including Apple Watches, Amazon Echo and Google Home. Geoffrey Ling, the lead scientific adviser on HARPA, told reporters Thursday the plan would require enormous amounts of data and “scientific rigor.”

He added: “Everybody would be a volunteer. We’re not inventing new science here. We’re analyzing it so we can develop new approaches.” The White House declined to provide the Daily Caller News Foundation with a statement but sources told WaPo that Trump has reacted “very positively” to the proposal — it is unclear if he has seen the Safe Home idea.

Google and Amazon have also not responded to the DCNF’s requests for comment.

Trump said mentally ill people are responsible for the uptick in mass shootings. “I do want people to remember the words ‘mental illness.’ These people are mentally ill. … I think we have to start building institutions again because, you know, if you look at the ’60s and ’70s, so many of these institutions were closed,” he said on Aug. 15. The president has also floatedthe possibility of supporting background checks.

The president has an icy relationship with both Google and Amazon. Trump told his Twitter followers Monday that Google manipulated votes to help former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton ahead of the 2016 presidential election. “My victory was even bigger than thought!” he added. Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos has long been a whipping boy for the president.
So...
1573807163671.png

Got it!

Let me take a stab at how these algorithms would work:
1) has the person posted on NES recently?
2) if so, arrest him!


and for google, apple, and amazon...i am not really here posting on NES, i am just a "bot"....i have hijacked Spanz's identity.
[wink]
 
1573807523177.png
Good, deport them all.
I thought they would be HARD TO FIND, but if they know most of them already.....
 
View attachment 312833
Good, deport them all.
I thought they would be HARD TO FIND, but if they know most of them already.....

Yet they can track a mountain lion from South Dakota to Connecticut....

Bob

But now comes evidence that one cougar actually migrated to Connecticut all the way from South Dakota, a journey of 2,400 to 2,900 kilometers (1,500 to 1,800 miles). The North American cougar (also classified as P. c. couguar; cougar taxonomy is still a matter of great debate) was struck and killed by an SUV while crossing the Wilbur Cross Parkway on June 11. DNA tests proved that not only did the cougar originate in South Dakota, but also that it had previously been tracked in 2009 and 2010 through Wisconsin and Minnesota, where the animal's DNA had previously been collected through blood, hair and droppings. According to the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources, cougars disappeared from that state in the early 20th century. They died out in Connecticut prior to that.

DNA Test Proves Killed Cougar Migrated from South Dakota to Connecticut
 
1. I thought most cougars migrated to Reno.

2. So we don't need to STOP illegal immigrants, we just need to shoot them with tracking darts when they cross the border?

3. (I'm sure you didn't read the actual quote you posted - but they determined it was from SD because of the autopsy. I think killing anyone who looks even a little Hispanic to ensure they aren't here illegally will be problematic.)
 
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