True Pre-Ban Lowers & Rifles (Colt Specific) + Bonus Questions!

[Grendizer138]

f*** Colt.

 

[hyemb350]

A couple of things.
-If it's a preban rifle/lower, you can do what you want.

-There are specific models and feature that were only present in preban Colts that you can visually tell that it is a preban model: Either it has a large front pivot pin or it has a sear block. The sear block will be pinned in with a hardened pin that will be visible from the right side of the receiver (or sometimes through to the left side).
If it is an SP1, AR-15A2, Sporter Lightweight/HBAR/Competion Match. It's almost certainly preban.
If the rifle does not have a sear block but does not have the auto sear shelf machined out it is likely post ban (but there are a few exceptions).
I'll post pictures later.

-As people have already said you do not need to pin and weld a muzzle device to be "extra careful" but I you may want to pin and weld if you build a 14.5 rifle and don't want to do NFA stuff. 14.5" is my fav barrel length.

-I've refinished (cerakoted) a bunch of preban lowers to match builds and always have the sear block machined off to accept any upper I want. Dont worry about "collectors" value unless it is an absolutely mint new in box rifle. Believe it or not there is a market for preban rifles outside of ban states now, but they only care about really nice examples.
Ulimately make the rifle yours and don't over think it.

Thanks, really appreciate the info. I’m not concerned about collectors value really since it’ll be a shooter.

 

[hyemb350]

Sell me your Olympic SGW for $500. Thats twice what you paid for it and almost twice what I can get a new MARS lower for in NH. No? Then F off.

Agree, I do really hate price gouging but it is what it is I guess.

 

[hyemb350]

A couple of things.
-If it's a preban rifle/lower, you can do what you want.

-There are specific models and feature that were only present in preban Colts that you can visually tell that it is a preban model: Either it has a large front pivot pin or it has a sear block. The sear block will be pinned in with a hardened pin that will be visible from the right side of the receiver (or sometimes through to the left side).
If it is an SP1, AR-15A2, Sporter Lightweight/HBAR/Competion Match. It's almost certainly preban.
If the rifle does not have a sear block but does not have the auto sear shelf machined out it is likely post ban (but there are a few exceptions).
I'll post pictures later.

-As people have already said you do not need to pin and weld a muzzle device to be "extra careful" but I you may want to pin and weld if you build a 14.5 rifle and don't want to do NFA stuff. 14.5" is my fav barrel length.

-I've refinished (cerakoted) a bunch of preban lowers to match builds and always have the sear block machined off to accept any upper I want. Dont worry about "collectors" value unless it is an absolutely mint new in box rifle. Believe it or not there is a market for preban rifles outside of ban states now, but they only care about really nice examples.
Ulimately make the rifle yours and don't over think it.

So here’s an example of a lower I’m looking at. Does not have a sear block and does not appear to have ever had one as there are no indication of pins on either side. According to Colt, that SN was manufactured as a complete rifle in 1990. Does that look accurate to you?

 

[MAJoe]

So here’s an example of a lower I’m looking at. Does not have a sear block and does not appear to have ever had one as there are no indication of pins on either side. According to Colt, that SN was manufactured as a complete rifle in 1990. Does that look accurate to you?

View attachment 733895
View attachment 733896
View attachment 733901

I would ask Colt. Their opinion, in writing, matters more than whatever someone on a forum tells you.

 

[E.Stoner]

So here’s an example of a lower I’m looking at. Does not have a sear block and does not appear to have ever had one as there are no indication of pins on either side. According to Colt, that SN was manufactured as a complete rifle in 1990. Does that look accurate to you?

View attachment 733895
View attachment 733896
View attachment 733901

That is 100% a preban.
It has no sear block because it has a large front pivot pin and oversized trigger pins. Be aware that you will need to get a step down screw to attach a normal small pin upper also you will need a "large pin" trigger group (either original colt or geissele makes several versions).
FYI there are prebans that fenced, with small pivot pins and no sear block. They are rare as hens teeth.
My preban lower of choice is one that is fenced, has a sear block with a SMALL blind pin from the right side. Some of these have the detent hole drilled for a front push pin, and if not they can be added easily.
I avoid lowers that have been drilled through entirely with a large pin for the sear block, IMHO this creates a weakness in the part .

 

[dw617]

Thanks. I’m trying to weigh my options. Mostly just want to be as safe as possible.

Can take a horse to water (the mill) but can’t make it drink.

Follow the actual mass law concerning post-ban bullds and you’re good. Remember, Healy never changed the law.

 

[Da_lucche]

Sell me your Olympic SGW for $500. Thats twice what you paid for it and almost twice what I can get a new MARS lower for in NH. No? Then F off.

Psft....$500? I could list just the lower for $900 on ARFCOM and someone who wasn't even from MA would snatch it up in a week. Am I willing to do that though? Naw, don't think so. It's a pre 94 and a registered NFA lower. But maybe when I move up to NH in the next 2 years, it will be my turn to list it for sale and price gouge the f*** out of someone from MA

 

[hyemb350]

That is 100% a preban.
It has no sear block because it has a large front pivot pin and oversized trigger pins. Be aware that you will need to get a step down screw to attach a normal small pin upper also you will need a "large pin" trigger group (either original colt or geissele makes several versions).
FYI there are prebans that fenced, with small pivot pins and no sear block. They are rare as hens teeth.
My preban lower of choice is one that is fenced, has a sear block with a SMALL blind pin from the right side. Some of these have the detent hole drilled for a front push pin, and if not they can be added easily.
I avoid lowers that have been drilled through entirely with a large pin for the sear block, IMHO this creates a weakness in the part .

Thanks a bunch for the good info.
Yes I read the small pivot pin prebans are hard to find. Although I’m considering just keeping it in the classic configuration, I personally like the look.

 

[MGnoob]

It doesn’t matter if it was shipped in any configuration. Who’s to say that someone at some point put an upper on with evil features?

It’s impossible to prove one way or the other

 

[ware]

Waste of damn money. If you must olympic arms made a nice one.

 

[Tartakovsky]

Psft....$500? I could list just the lower for $900 on ARFCOM and someone who wasn't even from MA would snatch it up in a week. Am I willing to do that though? Naw, don't think so. It's a pre 94 and a registered NFA lower. But maybe when I move up to NH in the next 2 years, it will be my turn to list it for sale and price gouge the f*** out of someone from MA

You’re making my point

 

[Da_lucche]

Yuou’re making my point

 

[LakeTrout]

To neuter a preban rifle is like wearing a condom after getting a vasectomy . It defies logic , common sense and offers NO extra level of protection. You're seriously overthinking this.

Not sure how the city folks do it, but out here in the sticks we still wrap it if we're not related cause then you don't know where she's been.

 

[Dressed to Kill]

Not sure how the city folks do it, but out here in the sticks we still wrap it if we're not related cause then you don't know where she's been.

Some times what I'm thinking and what I type don't always correlate. It's like getting a vasectomy because you and your wife don't want anymore children and then you still wear a condom just to be safe. It just doesn't make any sense and defeats the purpose.

 

[maltc]

Waste of damn money. If you must olympic arms made a nice one.

I’d argue it’s worth it to have all the “evil features” and still be in compliance. Flash hiders alone are a major perk- but that’s just me.

Regarding colts- the gov model will be small pin and no sear block. Sear block can be removed by a gunsmith (or on your own).

Op- stop bugging colt- follow this list.

Colt AR-15 Serial Number List

 

[ware]

I’d argue it’s worth it to have all the “evil features” and still be in compliance. Flash hiders alone are a major perk- but that’s just me.

Regarding colts- the gov model will be small pin and no sear block. Sear block can be removed by a gunsmith (or on your own).

Op- stop bugging colt- follow this list.

Colt AR-15 Serial Number List

Flash hiders? Meh there are “muzzle breaks” that are similar. Also adjustable stocks are whatever. Just not worth it imo.

 

[E.Stoner]

I’d argue it’s worth it to have all the “evil features” and still be in compliance. Flash hiders alone are a major perk- but that’s just me.

Regarding colts- the gov model will be small pin and no sear block. Sear block can be removed by a gunsmith (or on your own).

Op- stop bugging colt- follow this list.

Colt AR-15 Serial Number List

Govt model and govt carbines came in many many configurations with large pins and no sear blocks and small pins with sear blocks. Both A1 and A2 style.

 

[hyemb350]

Some times what I'm thinking and what I type don't always correlate. It's like getting a vasectomy because you and your wife don't want anymore children and then you still wear a condom just to be safe. It just doesn't make any sense and defeats the purpose.

Lol appreciate the clarification. I do understand what you mean.

 

[hyemb350]

I’d argue it’s worth it to have all the “evil features” and still be in compliance. Flash hiders alone are a major perk- but that’s just me.

Regarding colts- the gov model will be small pin and no sear block. Sear block can be removed by a gunsmith (or on your own).

Op- stop bugging colt- follow this list.

Colt AR-15 Serial Number List

I agree. It’s nice to not have to have any limitations. I saw that list, what confused me was all that “it needed to be configured a specific way before 94” talk.

 

[hyemb350]

Govt model and govt carbines came in many many configurations with large pins and no sear blocks and small pins with sear blocks. Both A1 and A2 style.

Yes, I’ve come across all sorts of variations.

 

[ScottG]

Perfect, thanks. Yes I agree, was just curious if there is an extra level of protection but I’m overthinking it.

Like TWO condoms?

 

[maltc]

I agree. It’s nice to not have to have any limitations. I saw that list, what confused me was all that “it needed to be configured a specific way before 94” talk.

MGL is deliberately confusing. It would be on the state to prove your built out pre 94 lower had never been assembled prior to 9/13/94 to hold you in violation, which is next to impossible… But for the sake of further protection, legally speaking, colts ONLY sold complete rifles pre 94, so it’s a historical guarantee.

 

[E.Stoner]

Manufactured before 1994: Do what you want.
Don't over think it.

 

[cathouse01]

Thanks a bunch for the good info.
Yes I read the small pivot pin prebans are hard to find. Although I’m considering just keeping it in the classic configuration, I personally like the look.

If you want to use a large pivot pin Colt lower with a standard small pivot pin upper you will need a special adapter pin, since not only is the pivot pin larger in diameter (.312 vs .250) but it's also offset slightly, so the adapter has to be eccentric. Colt used to offer an adapter that worked quite well, but it is no longer available. Fulton Armory does offer one ( frontoffsetpinfcoltlarge-holelowerandsmall-holeupper.aspx ) as does E. Arthur Brown
( Colt-AR15M16-Receiver-Offset-Adaptor-Pin_p_15090.html ). I've found the non-colt adapters works best when used in conjunction with something like this: Accurizing Wedge.

 

[hyemb350]

MGL is deliberately confusing. It would be on the state to prove your built out pre 94 lower had never been assembled prior to 9/13/94 to hold you in violation, which is next to impossible… But for the sake of further protection, legally speaking, colts ONLY sold complete rifles pre 94, so it’s a historical guarantee.

Thanks. Yeah I ran a couple of serial numbers by Colt and was told most likely everything pre 94 went out as complete rifles.

 

[hyemb350]

If you want to use a large pivot pin Colt lower with a standard small pivot pin upper you will need a special adapter pin, since not only is the pivot pin larger in diameter (.312 vs .250) but it's also offset slightly, so the adapter has to be eccentric. Colt used to offer an adapter that worked quite well, but it is no longer available. Fulton Armory does offer one ( frontoffsetpinfcoltlarge-holelowerandsmall-holeupper.aspx ) as does E. Arthur Brown
( Colt-AR15M16-Receiver-Offset-Adaptor-Pin_p_15090.html ). I've found the non-colt adapters works best when used in conjunction with something like this: Accurizing Wedge.

Thanks. I was aware of the adapter pin but didn’t know about the wedge, I’ll check it out.

 

[E.Stoner]

Accuwedges like shockbuffs for rifles. I'm not a big fan of putting extra stuff in rifles that dont do anything. Colt used to include them in their match rifles, they are now all in landfills.

 

[45Badger]

Accuwedges like shockbuffs for rifles. I'm not a big fan of putting extra stuff in rifles that dont do anything. Colt used to include them in their match rifles, they are now all in landfills.

Don’t forget full length guide rods

 

[dw617]

Accuwedges like shockbuffs for rifles. I'm not a big fan of putting extra stuff in rifles that dont do anything. Colt used to include them in their match rifles, they are now all in landfills.

If anything, those wedges are just a mental thing. More confidence in the rifle = better shooting.

I used to stuff ear plugs in to get a tighter fit. Aero lowers have the set screw to take up the slack which I like.