Troy Industries Statement

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I appreciate having the opportunity to speak to members of this forum. Troy Asymmetric, part of the “World of Troy,” is a business entity with a director who until this past week, held exclusive hiring authority. I am its owner, it bears my name and as we have witnessed in recent days, effects public opinion of all Troy divisions. Earlier this week, I terminated an instructor who did not support the Second Amendment as ardently as I and members of the community do.

Troy Asymmetric provides training to military and law enforcement personnel. If you spend 5 seconds on the website you’ll see a graphical depiction of a bomb explosion - the primary focus of the company. Take a moment to read the course list and you’ll note a common theme: training pertaining to explosions, bomb threats, post-blast crime scenes, incident command and crisis management. Instructors’ primary areas of expertise lie in the “bomb world,” with EOD experience, critical incident response, and tactical decision making. Some posters on the forum have said we only train “Jack Booted Thugs” and there is a secret agenda. These same posters conveniently ignore Troy Prepared: TroyPrepared. Troy Asymmetric to this date has offered no firearms training for Gov’t and LE, but in comparison, Troy Prepared has always offered firearms training to qualified civilians. From a factual, non-emotional context, it is impossible to draw the conclusion that we somehow do not support the Second Amendment and are only training “secret army”.

On August 22, 1992, Dale was an HRT Operator tasked to a mission in which he found himself facing armed adversaries. His thoughts were not only on the situation at hand, but the tragic death of a child and a U.S. Marshal. During this type of confrontation when people die, you don’t have the ability to pick sides, they are drawn before you arrive. Dale did what he was trained to do as a sniper / observer. He was fortunate not to have to take a life at this engagement. Special Agent Horiuchi made the regrettable shot, a mistake for which he will never be forgiven. Of the FBI Agents assigned to the Ruby Ridge tragedy, Dale has been one of the most outspoken. He has delivered dozens of presentations to more than 1000 civilians titled “Mistakes and Lessons of Ruby Ridge”. I weighed carefully the decision whether or not to retain Dale and could find no ethical or moral reason to remove him. Dale has not committed a criminal act, he answered all questions honestly, he did not cover anything up and he did not shoot anyone at Ruby Ridge. Dale was asked to join TA for his critical incident management expertise. Dale was never slated by TA for firearms instruction.

We all know from our biggest failures come the greatest lessons in life. Providing training that is relevant with experienced, qualified instructors can prevent a tragedy like Ruby Ridge. Dale will be able to deliver this powerful message and lessons learned in crisis management and incident command. I am driven and passionate about bringing effective change through pertinent training and speakers that have lived through these nightmares. Many times I have seen posts in forums that state “if you weren’t there then SDASTFU”, with that same school of thought, there is no one better than Dale to speak about tragedies like Ruby Ridge.

I have been a longtime and outspoken supporter of the Second Amendment. I always choose to do what’s right, even if my stance goes against others opinion. I will not throw this man to the wolves as he has demonstrated throughout his life high integrity and honor. I know most of those who would disagree are using this forum to voice your anger towards the United States Government. In some cases that anger is justified. The Ruby Ridge tragedy and the loss of life there make no bigger example of abuse of power and Government gone wrong. However, I disagree with your personal attacks on my family and company as we are not the Government and we are not training “Jack Booted Thugs”. I am a patriot and I swore to uphold and defend the Constitution of The United States, all of it. Those who have taken that same oath recognize the importance of keeping it. Thank you. -Steve Troy
 
Dale was asked to join TA for his critical incident management expertise.

Hopefully he wasn't working on this assignment.

This is a big fail all around.

Dale has not committed a criminal act, he answered all questions honestly, he did not cover anything up and he did not shoot anyone at Ruby Ridge.

He was one of the HRT guys who either went along with an unconstitutional set of ROE from the outset - rules designed to allow them to just kill who they pleased regardless of whether or not a threat existed, or he lied about the timing of the order under oath to do his part in the coverup. He did commit a criminal act. Him and the rest of the bastards went there to kill the Weavers. He's defended everything to this day, and still apparently disputes the DOJ's finding that it was an unconstitutional shoot. He was presumably on the team that taunted the Weavers the next morning, asking if Vickie had a good sleep and asking about breakfast. Dale Monroe can die in a fire. Steve Troy is hurting his company and his employees for the wrong guy, but if this is his decision he can FOAD himself.
 
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Dear Steve,
There are a few things I can appreciate in a man. One of them is loyalty. I can respect that you made the decision to stand with a man who is one of your senior managers.
This said, I will be completely honest with you. I am not a big fan or believer in humanity. I do not think that people can really change. As much as I doubt that all these criminals suddenly become better people and find Jesus in jail, I also really doubt that you kinda "converted" from a JBT to a fervent 2A supporter. I try to see the big picture, and I think you can take the man out of the MSP, but you can't take the MSP out of the man. Supporting freedom and defend the constitution are things people especially on gun boards like to hear. It's necessary for your business to have us think that you are on our side. I just don't buy it. You demonstrate clearly through your actions that your roots into the JBT organization are deep and strong. You hire them, and you provide them with training. The same kind of training IED units receive in the armed forces. How is that not helping to train their growing standing army? You are trying to play for both teams here, and we raise the bullshit flag. I believe that,when the time comes to refresh the tree of liberty, you will pick the side of tyranny. You will stand with your brothers from the other side of the blue line. Everything else is just marketing. I could be wrong, it happened before. But not very often, dare I say.
Every buck I'd spend with you company would help you grow, and as far as I'm concerned, I will not give a dime of my hard earned money to a company that may use it to invest in training facilities for JBTs, or to pay people like former special assassin and friend Dale.
Nice try to take us for idiots tho, I give you that. But seeing how you try to make money from everyone won't fly here. Sorry.
 
I love Troy stuff, but that's it for me. It sort of satisfies me the two rails and claymore I have were bought before they retained this guy.

Steve Troy,.. I'm sure you don't care about one lonely comsumer on NES like me, but let me say it for the record; I'll buy from you again when you ditch Dale
 
It's kind of crazy that a company that claims to not be totally oblivious about everything could hire Lon Horiuchi's partner and spotter from Ruby Ridge and defend him in the face of getting rightly called out on it. Horiuchi is toxic, as is the whole incident, yet they stand behind the guy and say that anyone who hasn't worn a uniform wouldn't understand. Troy earned this one.
 
I will start out by saying that I do not know Steve Troy, nor am I all that familiar with all aspects of his company.

However it appears to me that he came here with his side of the story and the reasons why he hired Dale and the reasons he is going to keep him on. And he did it in a calm and reasoned manner, much more so than some of his detractors.

As far as people not being able to change. How many times have we heard stories in NES and other gun boards about "My mom/dad/gf/wife/best friend/etc./etc was very much anti-gun until I got them to the range and now they have joined our side.". Yeah, people don't change.

Until I see something more substantial to judge him on I think his decision is not worth my invective and whining and moaning.

Or, maybe, I'm just not HSLD enough to condemn without mercy.
 
I will start out by saying that I do not know Steve Troy, nor am I all that familiar with all aspects of his company.

However it appears to me that he came here with his side of the story and the reasons why he hired Dale and the reasons he is going to keep him on. And he did it in a calm and reasoned manner, much more so than some of his detractors.

As far as people not being able to change. How many times have we heard stories in NES and other gun boards about "My mom/dad/gf/wife/best friend/etc./etc was very much anti-gun until I got them to the range and now they have joined our side.". Yeah, people don't change.

Until I see something more substantial to judge him on I think his decision is not worth my invective and whining and moaning.

Or, maybe, I'm just not HSLD enough to condemn without mercy.

Fair enough on the point about Troy standing up for his employee; however, you can't really compare giving someone who is anti gun a second chance to someone involved in an operation where people died a second chance. They're just not analogous situations.
 
Until I see something more substantial to judge him on I think his decision is not worth my invective and whining and moaning.

Or, maybe, I'm just not HSLD enough to condemn without mercy.
He's standing by a JBT who was part of a sniper team that killed a woman holding a baby. Dale said he would have taken the shot had Horiuchi not taken it.

Subsequent testimony at the Weaver trial about the days that followed the shooting of Vicki and Sammy is even more disturbing. It was disclosed that the FBI would taunt Weaver, knowing that his wife and son were dead, by blasting a loud speaker towards the cabin with sayings such as "Good morning Mrs. Weaver - we're having pancakes, what are you having for breakfast?"

Dale, Lon, and Company sound like some outstanding JBT's. Yeah Troy deserves my hard earned money. [thinking]
 
I'm going to shameless post a summary that somebody else posted on another site because it hits the issue and does it concisely, without going into the whole silliness that was the Jody Weis hire.

Other law enforcement there saw the modified ROE for what it was and refused to use it by sticking with the standard FBI rules.


Monroe and Horiuchi stuck with the unconstitutional modified ROE and defended its use even well after the incident when everyone else rightly said it was wrong.

As critical as I can be of LE there are still a lot of good guys, and I'm glad the other people there chose to ignore the shoot on site ROE. There has to be a lot of alternatives to the likes of Dale and Lon to be a face for your company. How those two, specifically, can get hired and these companies don't see anything wrong with it Ill never know.

So in short...F HS Precision and F Troy Industries.

Last thing...the comment about duty and wearing a uniform is disturbing. You have a duty to refuse illegal orders and not partake in illegal acts. Wearing a uniform is not an excuse to murder people because your superior said it was ok. We roundly rejected that excuse and shot a lot of Nazis who tried that line.
 
This is my personal account, the statement was copied and pasted directly from the post on Facebook I wanted to have the statement posted here word for word.
 
Steve,

Thanks for coming on here and giving your side of the story. I admire your loyalty to your employee, as well as your willingness to stand in front of your critics. A forum like this provides just enough perceived anonymity to embolden the anonymous into saying things they might not say to someone's face. It takes some balls to do what you did probably knowing what's about to come at you.

I couldn't help but notice an apparent contradiction between what you posted and what you're doing. You posted this...

I am a patriot and I swore to uphold and defend the Constitution of The United States, all of it. Those who have taken that same oath recognize the importance of keeping it.

... and yet you employ someone that was a willing (and by many accounts enthusiastic) participant in perhaps the most notoriously anti-constitutional government-initiated action against a private citizen in recent history.

Actions speak louder than words. Your quote above is a nice sentiment, but oaths (and I assume Mr. Monroe took the same one before his trip to Ruby Ridge) are words. When a contradiction exists between someone's words and their subsequent actions, a sane person decides the issue based on the actions.

Which is what I'm doing now. I've used and recommended your products for a long time, but I will recommend and buy from your competition until such time as Troy severs its relationship with Mr. Monroe.

Regards,

Jim Finnerty

ETA: I guess it wasn't Steve Troy that posted. I take back the 'having balls' compliment then. EVS911, if you work for Troy, feel free to pass on my statement - word for word.
 
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Here's the 60 second movie of how RR went down (also not mine):

ATF guy undercover: "Hey Randy, can you shorten a shotgun for me?"

Weaver: "Sure, but I can't cut it under 18". Here you go."

ATD guy undercover: "HAHA! BUSTED, MOTHER****ER! IT'S UNDER 26" OVERALL! BURN!!!"

Weaver: "WTF?"

ATF: "We can make this go away if you join the Aryan Nations group down the road and spy on them for us..."

Weaver: "**** you."

*Weaver arrested, charged with gun crimes*

*court sends wrong court date to Weaver, so Weaver didn't show up for court*

Judge: "Arrest Weaver for Failure To Appear."

USMS: "Ok."

Someone: "Hey Judge, we sent Weaver the wrong court date. You should stop the warrant."

Judge: "**** him. No way."

USMS: "Well, we should wait & see if he shows up first, and if not we'll go get him."

US District Attorney: "**** him. Go get him now."

USMS: "Ok."

Geraldo Rivera: "HEY EVERYONE! LOOK At ME! THE WEAVERS SHOT AT ME!!!!"

Media: "The Weavers shot at a media chopper."

USMS: "No they didn't, but let's say they did anyway because **** him, that's why.

* US Marshals, dressed in camo hiding on Weaver property, shoot Weaver's son's dog, firefight ensues killing Weaver's son & a USMS Marshal*

*Rules Of Engagement created*

Lon & Dale: "SWEET! WE CAN SHOOT EVERYBODY ALL UP IN THIS BITCH! WOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!"

Other cops: "WTF???????"

Lon: *BANG* = dead unarmed woman holding a baby

Dale: "Good shoot, bro. I totally woulda shot her in her ****ing face but you did it first. Jerk."

Lon: "Well, off to Waco. Gotta get some more face-shooting time in."

Dale: "Later. I'll tell congress you were totally righteous!"

Troy: "Hey Dale, want a job?"

I'd also be interested in hearing what role Good Guy Dale played in what went down after the shoot. This stuff: All about Randy Weaver and Ruby Ridge, by David Lohr ? Without Warning ? Crime Library on truTV.com

The discovery of Sammy Weaver's body brought more aggressive tactical actions. The carriers destroyed every standing building around the cabin and placed high-powered spotlights around the entire perimeter, aiming them directly at the cabin. When the lights were turned on they were so bright that they were visible from over a mile away in any direction. As soon as the lights illuminated the cabin, Randy yelled out the door, "You killed my f—king wife!" Elisheba then began crying out, "Mama, Mama." Kevin Harris was in so much pain, that he began pleading with Randy to kill him and put him out of his misery.

The psychological warfare became even worse the following day. "Good morning Mrs. Weaver," Fred Lanceley, an FBI negotiator, called out. "We had pancakes this morning. And what did you have for breakfast? Why don't you send your children out for some pancakes, Mrs. Weaver?" Following the statements made by the negotiator, the whole family began sobbing loudly. The phone, which had been placed outside the cabin door, rang continuously every 15 minutes as the negotiator continued yelling through the bull horn, at times stating that if they failed to come out, they were all going to die. A robot was soon deployed in an attempt to take a telephone inside the cabin by breaking out a front window. Randy was convinced that the robot would use tear gas on them and shouted, "You'd f—king better back off," and stated that he would shoot the robot if it came any closer. Following his statements, the robot retreated and a negotiator began speaking again, "Vicki, how's the baby?" he said. "Let me know if there is anything that can be done for the baby."

As news of the Ruby Ridge casualties reached the press, the small group assembled at the bottom of the mountain began turning into a mob. Signs were held up to oncoming vehicles — "Death to Zog" and "Baby killers." Those present later stated that they had never seen such an angry crowd before in their life. At one point a group of heavily armed anti-government sympathizers were arrested as they made their way up the mountain to support the Weaver family.

The fact that they just showed up and started shooting without identifying themselves is digusting. Shame on Dale Monroe, the rest of the team, and anyone who would defend them.
 
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Disapointed I have a troy alpha rail on my rifle. Was considering troy buis just yesterday, will no longer be. Will make sure I avoid Troy products at all levels moving forward. At least I bought it used I guess.
 
So they did fire him, correct?

He was a contractor of a company that Steve Troy claimed was completely separate and distinct from Troy Industries. Yet he was able to fire him. Yet Steve's name is all over all of the incorporation docs and web domain registrations for all the various Troy entities, and they all share the same address.

Steve Troy has no excuse, which is why he has only posted measured (ie lawyered) responses on facebook and one other gun forum that I'm aware of. He isn't responding to questions.
 
Disapointed I have a troy alpha rail on my rifle. Was considering troy buis just yesterday, will no longer be. Will make sure I avoid Troy products at all levels moving forward. At least I bought it used I guess.

From the testing results, MagPul BUIS are better anyway (more reliable, survive drops without moving, etc.).

I was thinking about getting a Troy handguard in the future, but now most likely not.
 
He was a contractor of a company that Steve Troy claimed was completely separate and distinct from Troy Industries. Yet he was able to fire him. Yet Steve's name is all over all of the incorporation docs and web domain registrations for all the various Troy entities, and they all share the same address.

Steve Troy has no excuse, which is why he has only posted measured (ie lawyered) responses on facebook and one other gun forum that I'm aware of. He isn't responding to questions.

Troy didn't fire Dale.
 
Earlier this week, I terminated an instructor who did not support the Second Amendment as ardently as I and members of the community do.

Jody Weis doesn't support 2A as "ardently" as the rest of us? I guess thats one way to put it.

Palm-face
 
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