Trigger pull terms and other trigger questions.

[Kaos116]

I am thinking of upgrading my trigger in an AR15. The problem is I have no idea what I have been reading or what I should be looking for. To start let me ask if I have the terms correct.

Take up - is all the travel a trigger makes before the resistance gets heavy.

Creep - is the travel the trigger makes before it breaks after the take up.

I don't know the term - for the travel the trigger makes after it breaks.

My assumption is, out of the three, Creep is the worse to have.


What is a two stage trigger? Why is it preferable to single stage trigger?


Thanks

 

[bpm990d]

Overtravel is the term you are looking for.

What you describe is a two stage rifle trigger, except you left out the second stage after the take up (first stage). A single stage has no take up.

I'm not really sure that a two stage trigger is preferable. It's much more popular in some shooting sports like HP, but I think the action shooters like the single stage triggers. I think the two stage provides much safer sear engagement. With a single stage it's right there.

B

 

[M1911]

Take up - is all the travel a trigger makes before the resistance gets heavy.

Creep - is the travel the trigger makes before it breaks after the take up.

Yup, those are correct.

I don't know the term - for the travel the trigger makes after it breaks.

Overtravel.

My assumption is, out of the three, Creep is the worse to have.

I'd agree.

What is a two stage trigger? Why is it preferable to single stage trigger?

A two stage trigger has noticeable take up prior to significant resistance. A single stage does not. Different folks like different triggers. I'm not sure that I'd say one is "better" than the other.

 

[jkdyoyo]

So a question on Creep. While you're pulling a DA is creep the going back in stages....that not so smooth one stroke...pull? Does it ever go away after usage and wear? Or is it one of those things that I have to get used to?

 

[R1ch]

Creep is feeling movement of the trigger after the sear is engaged until the trigger breaks (hammer falls). In a trigger without any creep you will not feel any movement. People say 'it breaks like glass' meaning it breaks suddenly without any obvious movment being felt.

Want a nice two stage trigger for your AR, look into the Giessele. I put one on mine and all I can say is WOW. Everyone that tries it is impressed. It can be adjusted to different weights. It's over travel can be adjusted too. It has no creep (breaks like glass). They are not inexpensive!

There are a few versions available, single stage, two stage, etc. I have the two stage which I love.

 

[Cabinetman]

I have a Gissele in my DPMS LR308b. It's the same trigger you'd use in any AR-15. All I can say is.......WOW!.

The Gissele are pricey even if you can find one. There are many other brands out there, however, that will improve the trigger action in your AR. Why do you need one? Because when you get one set up properly, your accuracy.....especially with rapid target aquisition and firing will improve 200% and that's not hyperbole. The better models are all adjustable in every aspect from take up, over travel, and release.

My DPMS in .308 is a beast to be sure. With a 'standard' AR trigger it was difficult to train. Pick out your target and then 'play' with the trigger creep and vacuous release. With a two stage trigger, where the takeup is precisely measured at three pounds and the release is super crisp (like the breaking of the stem of a wine glass) and totally predictable at 4 pounds, your shots will be nothing less than awesome.

Now I shoot that mother off hand all the time. I've got a Aimpoint Comp ML2 red dot on it. I light up a target and as soon as it's under the dot, my finger does the rest. I can hit a 10" 100 yard gong 16/17 shots out of 19 in the mag and that's under relatively rapid fire! I'm being totally honest here. I no longer even think about trigger pull. My eye and brain do the shooting. My finger just gets the order to shoot as soon as my eye say it's on target. By eliminating that one important step, your shooting can't help but improve.

The difference between the two trigger was so incredible that I could not believe it was me shooting, no lie.

So, yes, a nice new trigger that is adjustable will make your already accurate AR sing the higest notes. Just do some research to see what's out there. And, if you can get lucky enough to find a Gissele, BUY IT. Expect to pay about $250 for it, however, but you'll thank me in the end.

Rome

 

[R1ch]

I forgot to mention, this is where I got my Giessele 'hi speed' (two stage) trigger:
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=455

The nice thing about getting them from Rainier is that they throw in all the springs, so you end up getting all versions (Match, Service and DMR) of the 'hi speed' (two stage) trigger for the price of one.

It looks like the price went up a little since last year, but they usually have them in stock!

 

[bolt]

The way i see it is a AR15 costs you what? These days under a 1k. 250.00 for a two stage trigger seems like 25%. I do have a adjustable on 1 of the 2 longarms I have left. Savage FP10-308,(Totally built by a Ohio dealer , Mikes IIRC, and it cost a lot). Its a 300yrds plus target rifle not my AR. JMO, maybe their are addapters that make the trigger wider thus making it better inexpensivly. <shrug>

 

[Supermoto]

your accuracy.....especially with rapid target aquisition and firing will improve 200% and that's not hyperbole.
Rome

Single stage trigger are better for rapid fire. Much shorter reset, crisp break with virtually no pretravel

 

[foggy65]

Hey, I'm certainly no trigger expert and I'm also a new AR15 platform owner. I quickly realized that the trigger pull on my S&W M&P15 was awful. It had noticeable takeup, the creep was very gritty. I could hear the trigger dragging across the sear as I pulled to fire. I didn't want to spend a ton of dough on a trigger so I sent it to a smith for a trigger job. Again, I'm no expert but I'm pleased with the result. No takeup, no creep, crisp break for $39.

Here's the link for the guy that did my trigger job - http://www.triggerwork.net/ar15.html

Foggy65

 

[Jose]

Single stage trigger are better for rapid fire. Much shorter reset, crisp break with virtually no pretravel

I disagree.

The break is just as crisp and the reset is just as short on a high quality two stage trigger. It takes no time to learn how to reset the trigger just to the point where the first stage ends and second stage beings, effectively turning a two stage into a single stage.

Too many good HP shooters know how to do that for me to believe otherwise. And before you start arguing about the time limit differences between HP and USPSA, they are not relevant. I've given my carbine to local M and GM shooters and they can run it (with a 2 stage) as hard as they run theirs.