Traveling with guns

[the jeff]

Tomorrow night at 0100 I will be leaving for Virginia and West Virginia until Thursday. My question is: Can I bring a hand gun with me for protection. I will be doing a lot of driving in very unfamiliar areas. I will have to go threw New York and New Jersey.

I was thinking of putting/attaching my paddle holster under the front seat of my truck with my Glock 22 in it. I only have 15 round pre-ban mags for the Glock. When I stay at a hotel I will lock it in a lock box with a trigger guard and stash it in a secret compartment.

Would I be better off bringing something that is a standard 10 round capacity?

Any advise?

 

[jdubois]

No, you're not allowed to carry or possess in NY or NJ without a permit. 926A (FOPA safe passage act) will not protect you unless the firearm is unloaded and stored in your trunk, and it's questionable whether it would protect you if you stop for the night.

 

[the jeff]

No, you're not allowed to carry or possess in NY or NJ without a permit. 926A (FOPA safe passage act) will not protect you unless the firearm is unloaded and stored in your trunk, and it's questionable whether it would protect you if you stop for the night.

I just read that, in addition to it; is unlawful to transport any handguns threw New York with out a non-res license.

 

[jdubois]

is unlawful to transport any handguns threw New York with out a non-res license.

926A, within it's constraints, would definitely protect you against that law (though not necessarily protect you from being arrested, just protect you from being successfully prosecuted) . But it's the keeping loaded under your seat especially and stopping over for the night possibly that do you in.

 

[GSG]

How does FOPA define a gun as loaded? Is a loaded magazine not in the gun unloaded still? I tried looking for it in the below webpages, but to no avail.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000926---A000-.html

http://www.guncite.com/journals/hardfopa.html

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/new-york-law-firm-announces,555145.shtml

 

[jdubois]

926A does not, nor does any federal statute or regulation that I am aware of, define what 'loaded' means. 926A does specifically say that the ammunition has to be in the trunk as well (or in a locked container if your vehicle has no trunk), but does not mention anything futher. If I were going to travel under FOPA, I would keep the ammunition in a box or ammo can and not in a magazine, and make sure the trunk was locked. The clear intention of 926A is that the gun is not to be 'ready for use'.

 

[Ultimate]

Quick side question, semi related.

I drive Jeeps, therefore I do not have a trunk. Since I do not have a holster yet, I will have to "transport" my pistol. Is it legal to have a trigger lock on it underneath the rear seat? (unloaded of course)

 

[GSG]

926A does not, nor does any federal statute or regulation that I am aware of, define what 'loaded' means. 926A does specifically say that the ammunition has to be in the trunk as well (or in a locked container if your vehicle has no trunk), but does not mention anything futher. If I were going to travel under FOPA, I would keep the ammunition in a box or ammo can and not in a magazine, and make sure the trunk was locked. The clear intention of 926A is that the gun is not to be 'ready for use'.

That's my plan, but I like to know the answers all the way before getting involved.

 

[jdubois]

Quick side question, semi related.

I drive Jeeps, therefore I do not have a trunk. Since I do not have a holster yet, I will have to "transport" my pistol. Is it legal to have a trigger lock on it underneath the rear seat? (unloaded of course)

Do you mean for travel within MA or travel through other states under FOPA? The answer to either question is no. Within MA the gun must either be under the direct control of an LTC-A holder, or unloaded and locked in trunk, case, or other secure container (C. 140 § 131C). Trigger locks are not acceptable. In the case of FOPA, it must be unloaded and not readily accessible from the passenger compartment, or in a locked container if that is not possible (e.g. there is no trunk).

 

[GSG]

Quick side question, semi related.

I drive Jeeps, therefore I do not have a trunk. Since I do not have a holster yet, I will have to "transport" my pistol. Is it legal to have a trigger lock on it underneath the rear seat? (unloaded of course)

I just picked up one of these for $30-ish at WalMart for my FOPA-related journey.

I'm only bringing two pistols and some ammo with me on my trip, so it suits my needs perfectly. That should cover you.

Or one of these might help you out if you'll only have one gun:

http://www.fsguns.com/safes.html

I keep one in my trunk as a last ditch storage option if worst comes to worst, but it'll only hold one pistol and a spare mag or two.

 

[Sigmond]

If you are stopped for a traffic infraction, depending on the nature of the infraction and your demeanor, it will detrmine if there is reasonable suspicion to ask you out of the vehicle. Your vehicle may be searched. If you are found with a handgun under the seat, in the trunk, loaded or not, without a valid license in that State, you will likely be handcuffed for Officer protection and likely arrested. You really have to check the individual laws as they apply to each State you travel through. I know police officers who will automatically arrest you and treat u as a felon if you have a firearm in your poseesion without a valid license. In fact, even if you have a valid license you are likey to have a proble that you dont want. Consider OC!

 

[jdubois]

I know police officers who will automatically arrest you and treat u as a felon if you have a firearm in your poseesion without a valid license.

This is why I said FOPA should protect you from a successful prosecution, but may not protect you from being arrested. Personally, I don't think I'd ever trust FOPA to get me through. If I want my gun somewhere else, I'll ship it to myself.

 

[GSG]

This is why I said FOPA should protect you from a successful prosecution, but may not protect you from being arrested. Personally, I don't think I'd ever trust FOPA to get me through. If I want my gun somewhere else, I'll ship it to myself.

I'll trust it, sort of. Locked up unloaded out of sight in the trunk, drive the speed limit through the commie states, and be careful in general.

I'm not thrilled to drive through NY and NJ with firearms, but I'd feel much worse driving 1,300 miles completely unarmed.

 

[maee]

This is why I said FOPA should protect you from a successful prosecution, but may not protect you from being arrested. Personally, I don't think I'd ever trust FOPA to get me through. If I want my gun somewhere else, I'll ship it to myself.

What is the probability your locked box in your trunk is going to be searched while driving through NY/NJ? I would think pretty small. In all my years, I have never had my car or my person searched other than at the airport--neither have my parents in all of their 120 combined years.

Just obey all road rules and you will likely never need FOPA. And if you do, it will be there for you if you follow it to the letter. There is healthy caution and there is paranoia. Don't be afraid to follow the law.

 

[Sigmond]

Personally, i would carry it along as well and just drive the speed limit. Good luck and a prayer won't hurt

 

[jdubois]

There is healthy caution and there is paranoia. Don't be afraid to follow the law.

It's not paranoia, it's an educated decision.

Yes, keeping my head down, along with the fourth amendment would likely protect me. But that's different than FOPA. FOPA only comes into play in the situation where you are searched. Given that situation, I don't trust FOPA to get me out of a huge hassle.

I think the likely need for my guns while traveling through a state is small, the use of them when stored according to FOPA slow and inefficient, and the instant I touch the gun I've shed my FOPA protection. The unlikely event of having to explain the gun is more likely than the unlikely event of my being able to use the gun to any purpose. So I would choose to forget the whole situation and ship them.

But that's just me. You're certainly legal to do it, and there's no reason you shouldn't if that's your choice!

 

[Jose]

If you are found with a handgun under the seat, in the trunk, loaded or not, without a valid license in that State, you will likely be handcuffed for Officer protection and likely arrested.

You do not know what you are talking about. Really.

The guy was talking about VA and WV. Neither state has any licenses to posses or transport unloaded firearms. Nobody gets arrested in those states JUST because they have an unloaded firearm stored IAW with state law in those states.

The rest of the country DOES NOT work like Mass.

 

[Sigmond]

My friend,

You should learn to read...what i said was depending on the infraction and your demeanor. BTW i am a police officer and no what the process is when we encounter firearms in a vehicle.

 

[Jose]

My friend,

You should learn to read...what i said was depending on the infraction and your demeanor. BTW i am a police officer and no what the process is when we encounter firearms in a vehicle.

You are a BOSTON police officer. That means you "no" the process when you encounter firearms in a vehicle in BOSTON. I can assure you that you know nothing about how things of such nature are handled in Virginia and West Virginia (where the original poster is going) and anyplace else other than Boston. It is plainly apparent that the concept of transporting and owning firearms without a license, because said license does not exist in state law, is alien to you.

Perhaps it is you who should learn to read, as the question is not about transporting firearms in Boston, or anywhere in Massachussetts for that matter.

 

[salesman]

Here we go...

 

[Jose]

It's not paranoia, it's an educated decision.
the instant I touch the gun I've shed my FOPA protection.

This is simply NOT SO and you misunderstand what FOPA does.

FOPA allows you to legally transport your firearms through states where the law requires you to have some sort of license merely to POSSESS such firearms.

The majority of states, VA and WV included, do not have any sort of licensing scheme for firearms ownership and use. That means that once you get to VA, WV, or any other state that does not require a license to own or possess FOPA protection is not necessary. In those states merely having the firearm unloaded and locked IAW with state law for transport suffices so long as you are nor a prohibited person.

You can most certainly touch your guns at the range, while hunting, or while on any private property that you own or are a guest in. No license is necessary for those activities. In fact, in most states you can carry a concealed handgun on your private property without any license at all.

If you stay in a hotel or a motel in a state where licensing does not exist, you can keep your firearm with you loaded and ready for self defense in your room.

 

[Jose]

How does FOPA define a gun as loaded? Is a loaded magazine not in the gun unloaded still? I tried looking for it in the below webpages, but to no avail.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000926---A000-.html

http://www.guncite.com/journals/hardfopa.html

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/new-york-law-firm-announces,555145.shtml

State law where you happen to be is the controlling definition of what loaded is.

A loaded magazine or speedloader, even if not in the gun, means the gun is legally loaded in Ohio. In many other states that is not so.

 

[vellnueve]

Jose is correct. It was appalling for me to see just how little many MA gun owners know about freedoms that most of the country takes for granted. Such as the ability to own and transport a firearm without any sort of license.

 

[vellnueve]

If you stay in a hotel or a motel in a state where licensing does not exist, you can keep your firearm with you loaded and ready for self defense in your room.

And if you then continue your journey though a license-required state after that, you get renewed FOPA protection as well since your possession at the hotel you stayed at was OK.

 

[jdubois]

The majority of states, VA and WV included, do not have any sort of licensing scheme for firearms ownership and use.

I hate to burst your bubble here, Jose, but the original poster was merely mentioning that VA and WV were the destination. The question was also about transporting through NY and NJ, which was clearly the main concern. We were then discussing FOPA and the extent to which it protects you in "non-free" states.

While I know you like to spout on about "real" America that doesn't require permits, the current thread had absolutely, positively nothing to do with that. So did you have something to add about traveling through NY and NJ, or do you just want to continue insulting people?

 

[Jose]

vellenuve got it. Those that did not, well, I can't help you.

 

[vellnueve]

I grew up outside MA, although in a state that is partially better and partially worse (MD), but no license to possess there. Moving here was a shock, even from a socialist armpit like MD.

jdubois, I think Jose makes valid points in that the OP was asking about the entire trip, not just passing through NJ/NY. He needs to know that once he's in WV/VA, or even MD, he can stop, eat, shop, rest, sleep, eat, and do whatever he wants and not have to worry about FOPA. FOPA protection is only needed to get through NJ and NY.

It is possible (definitely if he stops in Maryland) that he will still be required to transport the handgun unloaded, and in the locked trunk or case. In other words, he won't be able to CCW or carry loaded in a vehicle without a non-resident permit, but other than that he can handle his firearm and even take it to the range (NRA Range in Fairfax, VA is very nice) should he wish.

 

[jdubois]

jdubois, I think Jose makes valid points in that the OP was asking about the entire trip, not just passing through NJ/NY. He needs to know that once he's in WV/VA, or even MD, he can stop, eat, shop, rest, sleep, eat, and do whatever he wants and not have to worry about FOPA. FOPA protection is only needed to get through NJ and NY.

If Jose wanted to add that he would actually be ok to do what he wanted once he got to VW and VA, that would have been fine. But instead he started in on a screed about people in permit states not understanding how the rest of America worked, and informed me I didn't understand what FOPA was or how it worked.

 

[Sigmond]

Just a note

The saying what goes around comes around is around the corner for you my frustrated and argumentative friend, for when the times comes that you are stopped for some traffic violation, you will gat to see the reality of the situation. Freedom and rights of American citizens is utmost in the minds of law enforcement officers, but officer safety is also a priority.

 

[Jose]

The saying what goes around comes around is around the corner for you my frustrated and argumentative friend, for when the times comes that you are stopped for some traffic violation, you will gat to see the reality of the situation. Freedom and rights of American citizens is utmost in the minds of law enforcement officers, but officer safety is also a priority.

Whatever