Traveling Thru MA with Pre Ban AR15

E

ewetstone

Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
29
Likes
0
Location
Connecticut
Feedback: 0 / 0 / 0
I have spent the past several hours researching this subject but keep reading conflicting and ambiguous information.

Question: I live in CT and Want to travel to a friends farm in VT to shoot with him. I understand the MA laws governing handguns but not evil black rifles.

I own 2 pre ban (pre 9/94) AR's (one is a registered Form 1 SBR) and one post ban AR. Which of these if any can I legally travel thru MA, without stopping, to VT? As for LCM's they are not an issue because I own plenty of 10 round mags.

If this has been beaten to death I apologize. My Google skills are fairly good but this subject there is just far too much misinformation out there.

ETA: BTW...I have no intention of trying to rely on FOPA since I have read on one of the MA websites that they have let it be known that MA does not and will not recognize FOPA.

Thanx gentlemen.
 
Last edited:
You might as well leave the guns at home if that's going to be your attitude.

You speak of "too much misinformation" in one sentence, then immediately say that "MA does not and will not recognize FOPA" in the next. Whoever said that is...drumroll please...spreading misinformation.

Store your guns and ammo according to FOPA requirements, drive the speed limit, don't stop in MA except for gas/bathroom breaks, and don't worry so much.
 
mlaboss said:
You might as well leave the guns at home if that's going to be your attitude.

You speak of "too much misinformation" in one sentence, then immediately say that "MA does not and will not recognize FOPA" in the next. Whoever said that is...drumroll please...spreading misinformation.

Store your guns and ammo according to FOPA requirements, drive the speed limit, don't stop in MA except for gas/bathroom breaks, and don't worry so much.
Click to expand...

What attitude?? Are you going to try and tell me that there is NOT misinformation and ambiguity concerning MA laws?? As for FOPA...I read that on a Mass.gov and Goal.Org. It clearly states that MA does not recognize FOPA and you will be arrested and forced to defend yourself from prosecution using FOPA. I have no desire to be arrested just to test FOPA!

Its very easy for someone like yourself to tell people to just depend on FOPA. Are you going to pay my defense lawyer?? Of course you could of just tried to answer my question.....but you got defensive instead. Why I have no idea. You could have mentioned FOPA with the caveat of good luck telling the MA State Trooper all about FOPA on the side of the highway because as we all know, cops love being told the law. He is just going to arrest me and let the court sort it out.

Now if there is someone else here that has some real knowledge of transport laws of Assault weapons I would very much appreciate hearing from you
 
Last edited:
MA requires a license for the possession of any rifle. Unless you have a nonresident license, pre/post ban doesn't really matter on a broad scale. If you aren't willing to drive the speed limit (wink), you're stuck relying on FOPA.
 
ewetstone said:
What attitude?? Are you going to try and tell me that there is NOT misinformation and ambiguity concerning MA laws?? As for FOPA...I read that on a mass.gov and Goal.Org. It clearly states that MA does not recognize FOPA and you will be arrested and forced to defend yourself from prosecution using FOPA. I have no desire to be arrested just to test FOPA!

Its very easy for someone like yourself to tell people to just depend on FOPA. Are you going to pay my defense lawyer??


Now if there is someone else here that has some real knowledge of transport laws of Assault weapons I would very much appreciate hearing from you
Click to expand...

My point is that if you're going to ignore laws that specifically state that what you are doing is legal, then why bother?

If you've been to GOAL.org, then you probably saw this page which states the following:

FOPA Protection: (Firearms Owners' Protection Act of 1986)
There is also protection from prosecution for gun owners under federal statute, as follows;
"Safe Passage" provision. This provision gives gun owners protection from prosecution while driving from state to state. In order for the protection to apply all firearms must be locked in tamper proof cases, unloaded. (we recommend having no ammunition in the case with the firearm) also, the firearm must not be readily available from the passenger compartment of the transporting vehicle (do not use glovebox or console to lock gun in) GOAL recommends that ALL firearms and ammunition are locked in separate cases at all times while driving from state to state as there is no case law to define "loaded". Be sure to check the local laws of any state which you plan to stop in as they vary greatly. (see below) Other useful links. Check the NRA page on interstate travel for more information.
Please note: You must be able to legally possess firearms at your destination, please check the laws of your destination before departure!
Click to expand...

Also on that same page is a reference to MGL Chapter 140 Section 129C, which specifically allows "Possession of rifles and shotguns and ammunition therefor by nonresidents traveling in or through the commonwealth, providing that any rifles or shotguns are unloaded and enclosed in a case;"
 
129c may or may not protect him with a "large capacity" rifle.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ma-court-of-appeals/1547833.html
"Satisfaction of G. L. c. 140, § 129C(j), does not provide a defense to a violation of G. L. c. 269, § 10(m)." Commonwealth v. Cornelius, 78 Mass. App. Ct. 413 (2010)
Click to expand...


To the OP: The bottom line is that there is inherent risk in exercising your 2A rights in MA. There is no legal "magic bullet" that will protect you no matter what. With that said, chances of you getting jammed up are pretty slim unless you do something to draw attention to yourself.
 
mlaboss said:
My point is that if you're going to ignore laws that specifically state that what you are doing is legal, then why bother?

If you've been to GOAL.org, then you probably saw this page which states the following:





Also on that same page is a reference to MGL Chapter 140 Section 129C, which specifically allows "Possession of rifles and shotguns and ammunition therefor by nonresidents traveling in or through the commonwealth, providing that any rifles or shotguns are unloaded and enclosed in a case;"
Click to expand...

I am not ignoring any laws. FOPA is a federal law which MA has made very clear they will not honor UNLESS you take them to task on it in court....AFTER you are arrested. How many of the State cops are even familiar with FOPA or much less even care?

As for the other info you posted concerning rifles and shotguns, again from my reading, does not cover post ban assault rifles because they have the capacity for LCM's. I read the exact statute but did not book mark it. I will go back and try to find it.

- - - Updated - - -

jasons said:
129c may or may not protect him with a "large capacity" rifle.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ma-court-of-appeals/1547833.html



To the OP: The bottom line is that there is inherent risk in exercising your 2A rights in MA. There is no legal "magic bullet" that will protect you no matter what. With that said, chances of you getting jammed up are pretty slim unless you do something to draw attention to yourself.
Click to expand...

This in bold above...^.

I do understand that the odds of getting "jammed up" are extremely small by just staying on the highway for the 55 miles border to border and not driving like an idiot but...I never have really liked to gamble.[wink]
 
Last edited:
ewetstone said:
This in bold above...^.
Click to expand...

For what it's worth, the Commonwealth v. Cornelius decision tortured logic even more than usual in those sort of cases. They basically said that a rifle isn't a rifle.

And it may not even be applicable to 129c(h) anyway. (Then again maybe it is.)

You roll the dice, you take your chances....
 
Yup, what you've been told thus far is basically it as far as legal protection for non-residents traveling through MA with firearms. If that's not enough to assuage your fears, then leave the guns at home.
 
jasons said:
For what it's worth, the Commonwealth v. Cornelius decision tortured logic even more than usual in those sort of cases. They basically said that a rifle isn't a rifle.

And it may not even be applicable to 129c(h) anyway. (Then again maybe it is.)

You roll the dice, you take your chances....
Click to expand...

LOL....as I added to my previous post....I am not really a gambler although I do like to throw the dice occasionally at the casinos.
 
Mlaboss is mostly correct. If his quote from GOAL's website is verbatim, GOAL isn't entirely correct either. Although I do not see the words in the text below, I have read many times that FOPA requires all ammo to be in a separate container to be compliant with FOPA and the text of the law does say that it must be in a locked container if you don't have a locked trunk (e.g. SUV/truck). MGL C. 140 S. 129C allows ONLY low-capacity long arms (and ammo for them) by Non-Residents without a MA NR LTC, so ARs don't qualify (and C. 269 S. 110(m) has absolutely no exemptions for possession of large-capacity anything in MA w/o a MA NR LTC). Thus, FOPA is your only protection with ARs in the car.

§ 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from
transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.
Click to expand...

Locked toolbox will work fine for ammo and not raise any suspicions. Keeping any gun cases or any gun related items INVISIBLE from outside the vehicle is a smart move and makes the possibility of answering uncomfortable questions pretty close to "0" while driving thru MA and obeying the traffic laws.

As Mlaboss was trying to point out, whoever told you that MA ignores FOPA is incorrect. Many get jammed up because they do not follow the rules in FOPA (usually ammo or components visible in the car which an officer observes).
 
Len-2A Training said:
Mlaboss is mostly correct. If his quote from GOAL's website is verbatim, GOAL isn't entirely correct either. Although I do not see the words in the text below, I have read many times that FOPA requires all ammo to be in a separate container to be compliant with FOPA and the text of the law does say that it must be in a locked container if you don't have a locked trunk (e.g. SUV/truck). MGL C. 140 S. 129C allows ONLY low-capacity long arms (and ammo for them) by Non-Residents without a MA NR LTC, so ARs don't qualify (and C. 269 S. 110(m) has absolutely no exemptions for possession of large-capacity anything in MA w/o a MA NR LTC). Thus, FOPA is your only protection with ARs in the car.



Locked toolbox will work fine for ammo and not raise any suspicions. Keeping any gun cases or any gun related items INVISIBLE from outside the vehicle is a smart move and makes the possibility of answering uncomfortable questions pretty close to "0" while driving thru MA and obeying the traffic laws.

As Mlaboss was trying to point out, whoever told you that MA ignores FOPA is incorrect. Many get jammed up because they do not follow the rules in FOPA (usually ammo or components visible in the car which an officer observes).
Click to expand...

I did in fact read that on a MA Gov't website and will try to go back and find it. What I am trying to get across is that once you are in court they will attempt to pursue prosecution and will most definitely make you defend yourself. You will be exonerated under FOPA...but at what cost?

I am 55 and have long since stopped driving like an idiot but to roll the dice and risk my 2a rights....even if I am confident of winning in court....its just not something that sounds like a whole lot of fun or cheap.
 
Last edited:
I'm pretty sure you wont get pulled over and arrested unless you do something wrong. Also I was under the impression that our right to bear arms was not to be infringed upon and doesn't the constitution trump state laws?
 
ewetstone said:
I did in fact read that on a MA Gov't website and will try to go back and find it. What I am trying to get across is that once you are in court they will attempt to pursue prosecution and will most definitely make you defend yourself. You will be exonerated under FOPA...but at what cost?

I am 55 and have long since stopped driving like an idiot but to roll the dice and risk my 2a rights....even if I am confident of winning in court....its just not something that sounds like a whole lot of fun or cheap.
Click to expand...

You won't find it on the mass.gov website, or anywhere else, because you are wrong.
The irony of you complaining about misinformation being propagated is hysterical.
 
bostonasphalt2 said:
You won't find it on the mass.gov website, or anywhere else, because you are wrong.
The irony of you complaining about misinformation being propagated is hysterical.
Click to expand...

Are you calling me a liar? You think I come on here and just make up things. I read it and will find it.

And BTW...I own 3 pre ban Glocks....all manufactured prior to 9/94. Even though that Sept. 13, 1994 law applied to assault weapons in general, it is meaningful for all weapons due to the fact that I can modify them as I wish here in CT. i.e. installing threaded barrels to pistols that were not manufactured that way.
 
Last edited:
bostonasphalt2 said:
You won't find it on the mass.gov website, or anywhere else, because you are wrong.
The irony of you complaining about misinformation being propagated is hysterical.
Click to expand...

He could be right about where he saw it. There are Q&As on an EOPS website wrt MA gun law. I haven't looked there in a while and certainly wouldn't bet that everything they post there is legally correct either.

Too the OP: You seem to be looking for a guarantee and are too nervous about the answers you have been given. If I felt that way, I'd leave them home and borrow other people's guns when in VT.
 
Len-2A Training said:
He could be right about where he saw it. There are Q&As on an EOPS website wrt MA gun law. I haven't looked there in a while and certainly wouldn't bet that everything they post there is legally correct either.

Too the OP: You seem to be looking for a guarantee and are too nervous about the answers you have been given. If I felt that way, I'd leave them home and borrow other people's guns when in VT.
Click to expand...

Len-2A....thank you...a voice of reason here!

You are correct in that I am nervous. As I noted earlier, I understand FOPA and how to travel under its stipulations. I also know that most LEO have no real knowledge of Federal gun laws nor do they care to know. So...standing on the side of 91 and producing the text of FOPA so that the trooper can just tell me he doesn't care about all that....is really not something I have a mind to do.

You are also correct about just shooting my friends guns as he has several hundred. I would of liked to bring a few of mine because they are new builds and would like some place to really spend some time getting them set up and trying various ammo, some of which the use of is prohibited at ranges here in CT like AP, tracer and incendiary ammo I have for several different weapons. I also have some 5.56 HE rounds that I want to try which I am sure would not be looked on too well at my range.
 
Last edited:
Len-2A Training said:
Too the OP: You seem to be looking for a guarantee and are too nervous about the answers you have been given. If I felt that way, I'd leave them home and borrow other people's guns when in VT.
Click to expand...

Respectfully, it's not just Len who's being the voice of reason; the quote above is precisely what mlaboss said in Post #2.

By now, you've got a bunch of responses that all say basically the same thing; at this point, what you choose to do is up to you. You're as well-informed on this issue as you're ever likely to get.
 
MA is low (relative to many other states) on the aggression scale for "mine if I search your car" at routine traffic stops. In fact, the SJC has held that even the smell of the devil weed in a car is suggestive only of a civil violation and therefore not justification for a search. Keep the stuff hidden, don't do anything stupid like have targets on the back seat, or another states gun license visible when you open your walled, and you'll have very minimal risk. A bigger risk is what happens if your car breaks down or is in a wreck and has to be towed. (a breifcase style case can solve that problem for handguns).
 
Yeah, like others here have posted. Keep it hidden and obey the traffic laws. That will greatly reduce your chances of being pulled over and that would result in a non-issue.

I don't travel out of state with my firearms. I only travel in the state of Mass with them. That being said...aside from my carry piece, everything else is in locked containers in my trunk locked with cable locks to open framing in the trunk. Some rifles are broken down to fit in their cases and ammo is stored in a separate container and not loaded into the mags. That's just me going to the gun club. Targets, staple guns and anything associated with shooting other than the carry piece is in the trunk. Carry piece is locked and loaded on my hip.

Another important note because my car has access to the trunk from the passenger compartment. Either by pulling the lever on the floor next to me or by reaching through behind the arm rest in the back seat or by unlocking the seat backs and folding the rear seat backs down. I double check to make sure each access is key locked and inaccessible without the ignition key.
 
ewetstone said:
Are you calling me a liar? You think I come on here and just make up things. I read it and will find it.

And BTW...I own 3 pre ban Glocks....all manufactured prior to 9/94. Even though that Sept. 13, 1994 law applied to assault weapons in general, it is meaningful for all weapons due to the fact that I can modify them as I wish here in CT. i.e. installing threaded barrels to pistols that were not manufactured that way.
Click to expand...



Seeing as you've posted nothing to back up your position, if it walks like a duck.....
 
also OP do you have an approved 5320 for the SBR? figured i'd ask because you had no idea about MA law, hopefully you got the fed side down at least.
 
mlaboss said:
Yup, what you've been told thus far is basically it as far as legal protection for non-residents traveling through MA with firearms. If that's not enough to assuage your fears, then leave the guns at home.
Click to expand...
mail one gun to yourself in VT
 
mlaboss said:
You might as well leave the guns at home if that's going to be your attitude.

You speak of "too much misinformation" in one sentence, then immediately say that "MA does not and will not recognize FOPA" in the next. Whoever said that is...drumroll please...spreading misinformation.

Store your guns and ammo according to FOPA requirements, drive the speed limit, don't stop in MA except for gas/bathroom breaks, and don't worry so much.
Click to expand...

This, jeethus cwithe.

Where's the case where someone clearly obeyed FOPA while transiting MA and still got busted? (insert crickets here, because there isn't one).

-Mike

- - - Updated - - -

ewetstone said:
You are correct in that I am nervous.
.
Click to expand...

Then just leave the guns at home, your nervousness/excessive worry will get you in more trouble than anything else.

-Mike
 

Similar threads

Practical implications of H4885 for non-residents traveling into/through MA?
Replies
6
Views
304
MAJoe
M
Glock Mass. portal transfer still ok with new Law?
2
Replies
35
Views
808
MAJoe
M
What we deal with is crazy
Replies
12
Views
691
PaulR
PaulR
Question about renewal in MA
Replies
0
Views
139
Porky4775
P
Post ban fixed mag AR15 style rife question
Replies
3
Views
372
Shevchenko
Shevchenko
Back
Top Bottom