Transfer of AR from CT to MA

JayMcB

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I am trying to help out a FUDD acquaintance who lives in CT.

He used to live in MA, where he had an LTC. He moved to CT, and never bothered to do anything with his license, and his guns have sat in his safe for something like 8 years

They were not registered by the deadline when the recent newtown-hysteria driven law was passed.

He has a pre-ban Colt AR-15 and a handful of standard cap (30rd) mags.

Questions:

Can he transport the unregistered rifle from his home to an FFL to sell? Can it be transferred to a MA resident if from FFL to FFL?
Can he transport it to the MA/CT state line and then do an FTF with an FA10 if the rifle was originally in the MA database as a 'MA' rifle?
Same question with mags, ammunition, etc
There are also handguns, and some old (old enough for C&R, old enough for no serial number) rifles as well.

He wants to get rid of them, legally
 
Can he transport it to the MA/CT state line and then do an FTF with an FA10 if the rifle was originally in the MA database as a 'MA' rifle?

This would be a Federal felony. Fed Law prohibits FTF transfers of any guns between 2 parties when they both don't CURRENTLY live in the same state.
 
I don't know what state restrictions are in place on CT FFLs. He can't take them to a MA FFL because he is not licensed in MA. He could drive to NH or VT or ME or another state and sell them/consign them with an FFL.
 
He can bring them to a dealer in CT to have them sold out of state if they are not Pre-1994. My understanding of the way they wrote the law is that you can "dispose" of them at any time buy selling to a dealer or turning them into the police. This is regardless of the timeframe of needing to register them. The law simply bans the ability to register after a certain date, not the ability to sell them to a dealer at any time. Obviously this puts the situation in dubious legal standing that probably will never be directly addressed by the court, so pick a dealer you trust not to be a boot licking assclown and it should be fine.

If they are pre '94 he can still sell them directly to someone else in CT and frankly he'll probably make a lot of money since thanks to people who know know nothing about guns or how laws actually work, passed the new set in a manner that left Pre-1994 guns still transferable.
 
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This would be a Federal felony. Fed Law prohibits FTF transfers of any guns between 2 parties when they both don't CURRENTLY live in the same state.

then not that, for sure.

I don't know what state restrictions are in place on CT FFLs. He can't take them to a MA FFL because he is not licensed in MA. He could drive to NH or VT or ME or another state and sell them/consign them with an FFL.

at which point it is out of his possession and life. will pass that along

He can bring them to a dealer in CT to have them sold out of state if they are not Pre-1994. My understanding of the way they wrote the law is that you can "dispose" of them at any time buy selling to a dealer or turning them into the police. This is regardless of the timeframe of needing to register them. The law simply bans the ability to register after a certain date, not the ability to sell them to a dealer at any time. Obviously this puts the situation in dubious legal standing that probably will never be directly addressed by the court, so pick a dealer you trust not to be a boot licking assclown and it should be fine.

If they are pre '94 he can still sell them directly to someone else in CT and frankly he'll probably make a lot of money since thanks to people who know know nothing about guns or how laws actually work, passed the new set in a manner that left Pre-1994 guns still transferable.

I'll let him know, thanks. The AR is like 1990 vintage.
 
Regarding the Pre-94 issue (emphasis added):

"The bill also bans any semiautomatic, centerfire rifle, regardless of the date produced, that can accept a detachable magazine that has at least one of the following features:"

"Rifles. The bill expands the banned weapons to include the following semiautomatic centerfire rifles, or copies or duplicates with the capability of any such rifles, that were in production before or on the effective date of the bill: AK 47; AK 74, AKM, AKS-74U, ARM, MAADI AK 47, MAK90, MISR, NHM90, NHM91, Norinco 56, 56S, 84S and 86S, Poly Technologies AKS and AK47, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR, WASR-10, WUM, Rock River Arms LAR-47 and Vector Arms AK-47; AR-10; AR-15; Bushmaster Carbon 15, Bushmaster XM15, Bushmaster ACR Rifles, Bushmaster MOE Rifles; Colt Match Target Rifles; Armalite M15; Olympic Arms AR-15, A1, CAR, PCR, K3B, K30R, K16, K48, K8 and K9 Rifles; DPMS Tactical Rifles; Smith and Wesson M&P15 Rifles; Rock River Arms LAR-15; Doublestar AR Rifles; Barrett REC7; Beretta Storm; Calico Liberty 50, 50 Tactical, 100, 100 Tactical, I, I Tactical, II and II Tactical Rifles; Hi-Point Carbine Rifles; HK-PSG-1; Kel-Tec Sub-2000, SU Rifles, and RFB; Remington Tactical Rifle Model 7615; SAR-8, SAR-4800 and SR9; SLG 95; SLR 95 or 96; TNW M230 and M2HB; Vector Arms UZI, Galil and Galil Sporter; Daewoo AR 100 and AR 110C; Fabrique Nationale/FN 308 Match and L1A1 Sporter; HK USC; IZHMASH Saiga AK; SIG Sauer 551-A1, 556, 516, 716 and M400 Rifles; Valmet M62S, M71S and M78S; Wilkinson Arms Linda Carbine; and Barrett M107A1"

"Legal Possession. Under the bill, anyone who legally possessed one of the newly banned weapons on the day before the bill's effective date and who is eligible for a certificate of possession may continue to do so by applying to DESPP for this certificate by January 1, 2014 and otherwise complying with the bill. "
 
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Regarding the Pre-94 issue (emphasis added):

"The bill also bans any semiautomatic, centerfire rifle, regardless of the date produced, that can accept a detachable magazine that has at least one of the following features:"

"Rifles. The bill expands the banned weapons to include the following semiautomatic centerfire rifles, or copies or duplicates with the capability of any such rifles, that were in production before or on the effective date of the bill: AK 47; AK 74, AKM, AKS-74U, ARM, MAADI AK 47, MAK90, MISR, NHM90, NHM91, Norinco 56, 56S, 84S and 86S, Poly Technologies AKS and AK47, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR, WASR-10, WUM, Rock River Arms LAR-47 and Vector Arms AK-47; AR-10; AR-15; Bushmaster Carbon 15, Bushmaster XM15, Bushmaster ACR Rifles, Bushmaster MOE Rifles; Colt Match Target Rifles; Armalite M15; Olympic Arms AR-15, A1, CAR, PCR, K3B, K30R, K16, K48, K8 and K9 Rifles; DPMS Tactical Rifles; Smith and Wesson M&P15 Rifles; Rock River Arms LAR-15; Doublestar AR Rifles; Barrett REC7; Beretta Storm; Calico Liberty 50, 50 Tactical, 100, 100 Tactical, I, I Tactical, II and II Tactical Rifles; Hi-Point Carbine Rifles; HK-PSG-1; Kel-Tec Sub-2000, SU Rifles, and RFB; Remington Tactical Rifle Model 7615; SAR-8, SAR-4800 and SR9; SLG 95; SLR 95 or 96; TNW M230 and M2HB; Vector Arms UZI, Galil and Galil Sporter; Daewoo AR 100 and AR 110C; Fabrique Nationale/FN 308 Match and L1A1 Sporter; HK USC; IZHMASH Saiga AK; SIG Sauer 551-A1, 556, 516, 716 and M400 Rifles; Valmet M62S, M71S and M78S; Wilkinson Arms Linda Carbine; and Barrett M107A1"

"Legal Possession. Under the bill, anyone who legally possessed one of the newly banned weapons on the day before the bill's effective date and who is eligible for a certificate of possession may continue to do so by applying to DESPP for this certificate by January 1, 2014 and otherwise complying with the bill. "

There's that passage and then there is the DPS interpretation. I can tell you for a fact that FFLs are legally transferring pre94 guns in CT with the OK of DPS based on current law.

Perhaps DCMDON will chime in here and fill us in on how that happened. I bailed from CT right after the law was passed, but I have friends both regular and dealers gobbling them up.
 
If its pre 94 its exempt in CT. Keep it or sell it in CT for a lot of $. I'll give him $600 cash tomorrow.
 
Regarding the Pre-94 issue (emphasis added):

"The bill also bans any semiautomatic, centerfire rifle, regardless of the date produced, that can accept a detachable magazine that has at least one of the following features:"

"Rifles. The bill expands the banned weapons to include the following semiautomatic centerfire rifles, or copies or duplicates with the capability of any such rifles, that were in production before or on the effective date of the bill: AK 47; AK 74, AKM, AKS-74U, ARM, MAADI AK 47, MAK90, MISR, NHM90, NHM91, Norinco 56, 56S, 84S and 86S, Poly Technologies AKS and AK47, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR, WASR-10, WUM, Rock River Arms LAR-47 and Vector Arms AK-47; AR-10; AR-15; Bushmaster Carbon 15, Bushmaster XM15, Bushmaster ACR Rifles, Bushmaster MOE Rifles; Colt Match Target Rifles; Armalite M15; Olympic Arms AR-15, A1, CAR, PCR, K3B, K30R, K16, K48, K8 and K9 Rifles; DPMS Tactical Rifles; Smith and Wesson M&P15 Rifles; Rock River Arms LAR-15; Doublestar AR Rifles; Barrett REC7; Beretta Storm; Calico Liberty 50, 50 Tactical, 100, 100 Tactical, I, I Tactical, II and II Tactical Rifles; Hi-Point Carbine Rifles; HK-PSG-1; Kel-Tec Sub-2000, SU Rifles, and RFB; Remington Tactical Rifle Model 7615; SAR-8, SAR-4800 and SR9; SLG 95; SLR 95 or 96; TNW M230 and M2HB; Vector Arms UZI, Galil and Galil Sporter; Daewoo AR 100 and AR 110C; Fabrique Nationale/FN 308 Match and L1A1 Sporter; HK USC; IZHMASH Saiga AK; SIG Sauer 551-A1, 556, 516, 716 and M400 Rifles; Valmet M62S, M71S and M78S; Wilkinson Arms Linda Carbine; and Barrett M107A1"

"Legal Possession. Under the bill, anyone who legally possessed one of the newly banned weapons on the day before the bill's effective date and who is eligible for a certificate of possession may continue to do so by applying to DESPP for this certificate by January 1, 2014 and otherwise complying with the bill. "

Later in the law it contradicts itself and states weapons made prior to 94 ban are exempt.

Pre bans are still perfectly legal in CT, including specifically named guns and guns previously prohibited by prior stupid law such as 7.62x39 aks.
 
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If its pre 94 its exempt in CT. Keep it or sell it in CT for a lot of $. I'll give him $600 cash tomorrow.

This is the correct answer.

If its pre-ban, its not an AW in CT. So he can sell it for good $$. Or just keep it.

In 4/2012 Detective Shawn Musial is on record as saying the following:

The State Statute is specific regarding Colts. The Colt AR-15 and the Colt Sporter are specifically named however Colt did manufacture several variants (ie. Colt Sporter Match H-Bar, Sporter Lightweight, Sporter Match Target or even the AR-

15A2). As long as any of these variants were manufactured prior to October 1,1993 (pre-ban) they would be legal in CT even with the flash hider, bayonet lug or other components listed.


This established that prior to PA-13-3, the vast majority of colts were not considered to be AWs. (It must be an "AR-15" and nothing else. No sporter, no A2, no match hbar, etc)

The following is from the CT-DESPP FAQ on PA 13-3

3. Sec. 11 of P.A. 13-220 amended C.G.S. Sec. 53-202m (effective from passage) to read:

“Notwithstanding any provision of the general statutes, sections 53-202a to 53 202j, inclusive, as amended by this act (See 1 and 2 above), SHALL NOT BE CONSTRUED to limit the transfer or require the registration of an assault weapon as defined in subdivision (3) or (4) of subsection (a) of section 53-202a of the general statutes , revision of 1958, revised to January 1, 2013, provided such firearm was legally manufactured prior to September 13, 1994”.

Ipso Facto, the above amendments (1) and (2) to Sec. 53-202a which include the language “regardless of the date such firearm was manufactured” have no effective impact on the plain language of Sec. 53-202m since it clearly state that “any provision of the general statutes, sections 53-202a to 53-202l, inclusive, as amended by this act (P.A. 13-220), shall not be construed to limit the transfer or require the registration of an assault weapon. . . provided such firearm was legally manufactured prior to September 13, 1994.


Bottom line - the gun can stay. The mags can't.
 
If he still wants to sell it to someone in MA, he should just box it up and mail it via USPS to the FFL in MA that the buyer wants to use. The FFL will handle the rest.

Or the MA buyer could drive down to CT and then drive up with the seller to a MA FFL who will handle the transfer.
 
This is the correct answer.

If its pre-ban, its not an AW in CT. So he can sell it for good $$. Or just keep it.

...Bottom line - the gun can stay. The mags can't.

Are you saying that a pre-ban firearm that is listed by name in 53-202a can stay?

My understanding is that a "named" firearm (such as the AR-15 mentioned in this post) are considered AWs regardless of manufacture.
 
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Are you saying that a pre-ban firearm that is listed by name in 53-202a can stay?

My understanding is that a "named" firearm (such as the AR-15 mentioned in this post) are considered AWs regardless of manufacture.

No.

The pre-94 not specifically banned by name (from the previous CT AWB) are still legal to own and transfers the same way they were before this new law. The idiots who wrote the new law suck at writing law and didnt understand what they were doing.

Any "post ban", I.e. 1995 or later AR15s are all banned from further sales, no transfers except to FFLs or out of state, they must be registered.

Yes it's confusing.
 
No.

The pre-94 not specifically banned by name (from the previous CT AWB) are still legal to own and transfers the same way they were before this new law. The idiots who wrote the new law suck at writing law and didnt understand what they were doing.

Any "post ban", I.e. 1995 or later AR15s are all banned from further sales, no transfers except to FFLs or out of state, they must be registered.

Yes it's confusing.

But the OP is asking about a "Colt AR-15." Is that not specifically banned by name from the old AWB? Therefore illegal?
 
CT laws are a little confusing. If a rifle is truly "pre ban", made before 1994, it may be still legal to possess in CT. That may still be a loop hole to the current CT law unless it has been closed. However, some Colt AR models were made illegal by name alone so that is unclear. For instance, I know a pre 1994 Bushmaster is still legal (or at least was) even after the recent law changes with its draconian penalties. He needs to provide the precise serial number, date of manufacture and the model name to find out for sure. True pre bans have been selling in Ct at a sharp premium!

Worst case is that it is that it is illegal in CT so he probably shouldn't try taking the rifle to a local gun shop in CT.

Do you have a Class A LTC? If the rifle is truly a Pre Ban (pre ban date in 1994) and, thus, legal in Mass, he could meet you at the CT/MA border and you and he could take the rifle to a MA FFL with him and do a transfer or put the rifle up on consignment. Just be sure to follow all the laws so you don't run afoul of anything, e.g. like him also having standard cap mags that may have been made after the ban date, locked case and storage requirement, etc.

Clearly, these gun laws are so screwy and difficult to decipher that they do nothing to prevent crime but, rather, only so confuse honest people that they can be tricked into becoming "criminals".

Bottom line is he needs to find out what is considered to be truly pre ban in CT. Last I heard that pre 1994 loop hole was still in effect in CT so that would trump the need to have possession and obtained a certificate of possession before the deadline. Your friend should carefully look into that.
 
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The opinion by the CT DESPP, as provided in a letter, that I'll get posted in the next day, is that any Colt AR-15 that includes any other name is not an awb provided its pre94 ban.

Ex: AR-15 A2 HBar, AR-15 Match Target, etc.

Also, remember that NO permits or licenses of any kind are required to possess any firearms in CT.

Don
 
If people don't know, please stop speculating. It just adds confusion.

Almost all pre-94ban Colts are legal in CT.

Unless it says "AR15" with nothing after it, its legal. PERIOD. Your friend does not have to sell. Period.

Very very few pure AR15s were ever made. Most were A2, hbar, A2 HBar, Sporter, Match Target, or something else.

My posts 21 and 22 above answer both of the relevant questions.

1) is it legal
2) if he wants to sell it to the friend in MA anyway, here's how to do it legally.

done /thread
 
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