Traffic Stop

[OfficerObie59]

I'm not quite following you Obie. (and you are one of the posters who have my utmost respect in regards to explaining interaction with LEOs) I'm trying to understand your last sentence. Did you mean to say that if you are carrying, and don't announce that fact, and are discovered later to be carrying, you're going to have tough go of it?

I don't think you meant it that way, but what exactly do you mean?

It also could be my reading comprehension skills are failing.

I'm saying don't be surprised if you get the "place your hands on the sterring wheel now and slowly use your left hand to open the door..." as you get pulled out of the car and disarmed for the remaining duration of the stop while your LTC number and gun serial are run. If it's unexpected, the officer's response may be less cordial than it would be if you had announced it up front, particularly if you're dealing with the one of those five officers who is of the opinion you should announce it as soon as your stopped. Some officers posess this (IMO) faulty assumption.

In my opinion, this is an area where the MPTC would do well to have a statewide standard police response in the absense of a mandatory announce law.

I think what Obie is sayin is that if you go to get your wallet out of your back pocket for your license and the officer identifies a gun coming from under your shirt as you lean, there is certainly going to be an OHH SHIT moment going through the head of the officer and how he reacts will certainly depend on the officer. That is what "Concealed means concealed" means... if you get made in certain situations it can get ugly quick even if you're 100% legal.

Pretty much.

 

[Cap]

If at the time you are asked for license/reg the cop asks if there are any weapons in the vehicle, are you required to inform or could you decline to answer (not lie)?

 

[Racenet]

If at the time you are asked for license/reg the cop asks if there are any weapons in the vehicle, are you required to inform or could you decline to answer (not lie)?

If you are pulled over for a traffic violation, that question should not even be asked. It has nothing to do with the issue at hand, so it is none of their business. YMMV in your state.

 

[Cap]

If you are pulled over for a traffic violation, that question should not even be asked. It has nothing to do with the issue at hand, so it is none of their business. YMMV in your state.

I understand that it should not be asked, but I'm wondering if there is something that states you must answer when asked.

 

[Smokewagon]

Wow, simply amazing! The MA police & AG have you people running scared.

Honestly it has nothing to do with MA. I've only been in MA for 8 years. That's been my philosophy since before I came here. Most of the time I'm not saying a word about carrying in a traffic stop. But If I'm asked to get out of the car, you can bet I'm probably going to let him know before he sees/finds it first. The last thing I want is to hear a cop shout "GUN" and him and his buddies using me as a pinata. Knowing a cop is going to get some re-training is small consolation when I'm in the hospital or dead.


~SW

 

[ochmude]

Knowing a cop is going to get some re-training is small consolation when I'm in the hospital or dead.

I doubt there would be any retraining. I can't speak for all agencies, but our training was extremely clear on the matter. If you see any sort of weapon, you draw your gun immediately. You don't immediately shoot, unless the situation warrants it, but you draw your gun and assess the situation. Just to give you an idea of the extent of what this means, we'd do little training scenarios at the academy using red guns and other ASP red props. We'd walk into the room, there would be an individual that we were instructed to make contact with. While interviewing the individual, if we saw even so much as a pocket knife, we were supposed to draw. If we failed to do so we usually would get screamed at by the instructors, do pushups, go for little jogs, and so forth. But anyway, that's the training. You see a weapon, you draw your gun. Now, obviously the training is geared toward the lowest common denominator, and it doesn't even remotely play out like that in the real world, especially in Arizona where constitutional carry exists and open carry is viewed without the least bit of scorn, but that is still what the training is.

 

[Smokewagon]

(snippage) If you see any sort of weapon, you draw your gun immediately.

(more snippage) if we saw even so much as a pocket knife, we were supposed to draw.

I've seen too many cops with bad trigger discipline to think I'm going to be perfectly safe in such an instance. Plenty of youtube videos back this up as well. This is one of my main reasons for outing myself if I think I'm going to be "made". I wish I felt I wouldn't have to worry about what would happen if I was "made", but I know better and I've got a wife and two baby girls to take care of for a few more years before my personal safety is just about me.

It's Kind of sad that training involved drawing down over a pocket knife.

~SW

 

[ochmude]

It's Kind of sad that training involved drawing down over a pocket knife.

I agree, and I don't follow that training as it was presented. Here in AZ it's safest to assume everyone has a gun. I once pulled someone over, observed a firearm, complimented them on the fine engraving on it (it was a really nice looking Colt 1911 with custom engraving), asked where he got it, then had a discussion about the insanely high transfer fees the local gun shop charges. My gun stayed holstered the whole time. Oh, and the guy gave me the phone number of a local residential FFL that charges a very reasonable fee for transfers. My use-of-force instructor from the academy would have been very disappointed, lol.

 

[Smokewagon]

I agree, and I don't follow that training as it was presented. Here in AZ it's safest to assume everyone has a gun. I once pulled someone over, observed a firearm, complimented them on the fine engraving on it (it was a really nice looking Colt 1911 with custom engraving), asked where he got it, then had a discussion about the insanely high transfer fees the local gun shop charges. My gun stayed holstered the whole time. Oh, and the guy gave me the phone number of a local residential FFL that charges a very reasonable fee for transfers. My use-of-force instructor from the academy would have been very disappointed, lol.

I have to say that's a great story. "Do you know how fast you were...heeeey nice engraving on that 1911."

Wish all stops could go like that. Also, +1 to you for not going full retard at seeing a gun during a traffic stop. Although I understand it is AZ and even granny carries when she's going to the quick e mart for a gallon of milk. (Ok so it might not be THAT prevalent, but I did see a lot of people carrying while I've been there).

~SW

 

[Mark from MA]

In my opinion, this is an area where the MPTC would do well to have a statewide standard police response in the absense of a mandatory announce law.
Pretty much.

Now lets get real...we don't want clarity on the laws and everyone on the same page. If you guys got your shit together, then we'd be missing at least 10 threads a year on this stupid subject.

 

[MisterHappy]

I agree, and I don't follow that training as it was presented. Here in AZ it's safest to assume everyone has a gun. I once pulled someone over, observed a firearm, complimented them on the fine engraving on it (it was a really nice looking Colt 1911 with custom engraving), asked where he got it, then had a discussion about the insanely high transfer fees the local gun shop charges. My gun stayed holstered the whole time. Oh, and the guy gave me the phone number of a local residential FFL that charges a very reasonable fee for transfers. My use-of-force instructor from the academy would have been very disappointed, lol.

You're a bad robot.

You need reprogramming.

Discretion is not acceptable.

 

[In God We Trust]

Maybe it has been said, but any cop that needs to be informed that the driver of the car he is approaching is armed, should probably find another line of work. Also, any cop that is that terrified of guns should also find a new job because guns are legal in America.

The only gun you need to be concerned about is the one that joe shitbag bought in an alley and has hidden under his leg. There is only one way to find out about that gun and it usually ends badly for one or the other of the parties involved. No announce law is going to reveal that gun.

That cop in Ohio or wherever it was that was on video flipping out on the guy and threatening to kill him over failing to announce that he was armed did not care at all about the gun. It was a power trip thing. He felt that his authority had not been respected to an appropriate degree.

"Be polite, be respectful and professional, but have a plan to kill every person you encounter."

 

[TZCHRIS]

"Be polite, be respectful and professional, but have a plan to kill every person you encounter."

That works for me!

 

[ToddDubya]

Part of the reason that I ask, is that my kids are getting ready to drive - and I want them to be more like me, than the people that get pulled over.

My parents told me "If you get a traffic ticket you're off our insurance."