That was certainly true in the old days, but have you tried it with today's inertia-reel shoulder harnesses? They let you lean quite a ways.
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Traffic stop with TWO concealed firearms!
- Thread starter Radtekk
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That was certainly true in the old days, but have you tried it with today's inertia-reel shoulder harnesses? They let you lean quite a ways.
Mark from MA
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This is why I keep my registration over the visor. My DL though is the sticking point.....its in my wallet.
Funny though, one cop got real mad when I was buckled, and I told him... BTW, I'm armed...but wait a minute, this damn seat belt is in the way, while I grabbed around to reach my wallet in my back pocket to show him my DL and LTC. Sarcasm.....
My point is....the fxcking seatbelt gets in the way of reaching for your wallet. Many people leave it on the console somewhere, but out of habit I don't. Its always a PIA to unbuckle and then tell the guy Im just getting my wallet.
As he's already run my info and with the great FA-10 system we have thinks I own a million guns, half of which have been traded or sold out of state at Kittery or something.
My main fear of not having it in my wallet is when I'm getting on a flight, I'll go to get it out of my wallet and it will be on the console in my car....guaranteed. So I leave it in my wallet.
You're traveling through another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination. That's the signpost up ahead: your next stop, the Twilight Zone!
Was Rod Serling standing by the side of the road?
That's why I wear cargo pants. I keep my wallet in my right side cargo pocket. That way I don't have to sit on my wallet (bad for back), and I can get my wallet without unbuckling my seatbelt or flashing a handgun on my right hip.
mibro
NES Member
There are better ways to show you're a rugged nonconformist.
If you really want to impress me, dive off a 3 story building into a dumpster of scrap metal. I will be impressed, I promise. So will you.
You cannot overestimate the value of a seatbelt.
In 1978, I flipped my car over on the Mass Turnpike during a Friday rush hour. I found myself hanging upside down, unbuckled my belt, and dropped only about 2" to the roof liner. A truck driver pulled the door open and I crawled out unhurt.
It was an ugly looking wreck. I had flipped it the long way and the roof was crushed flat from the hood edge to the trunk with only two bumps where the high-backed seats sat. The first State Trooper on the scene ran up to the person closest to the car (me) and asked "Is the driver dead?" When I replied that I was fine, his incredulous answer was "YOU were in THAT???"
Wear the belt. Always. No matter how short the ride.
Jason Flare
NES Member
The issue is the government telling you at gunpoint that you have to do something.
I wear a seatbelt because I saw a woman killed after being ejected from a car in what could have been a minor accident.
Same here, because of the siatic nerve? pinch BS... I stopped carrying my wallet in my back pocket when I was like 17. Also when driving I take it out and relocate it somewhere easier to reach, unless I'm in my other car, in which case I have a dupe license and a registration right in the visor at all times, no wallet fishing required, no unbuckling of seatbelt required. With a statistically significant number of trigger happy/bad cops floating around, IMHO it pays dividends to streamline everything.... also expedites getting officer so and so ( whether he's a good or bad cop) out of your business faster.
-Mike
![[hmmm]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/009.gif "Hmm [hmmm]")
There's no gunpoint, just a fine. Why should the government not require seatbelts by law? Eject your stupid self through the windshield, tie up an EMS crew, then an ER crew, then maybe a surgical team. Even for minor cases a seatbelt can prevent unnecessary injury and expense. Wear a belt or the system (the rest of us) must pay for the ignorance.
Mark from MA
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Yeah...I did it for a while, now I mostly wear jeans, so it's back to the back pocket. Doesnt' really bother my back. I generally don't have enough cash in it
Dupe lisc and reg is good idea though.
I always wear my seatbelt, because why wouldn't you? But I also insist that any passengers wear their seatbelt as well. This isn't solely because I don't want to see them turn into road pizza, but also because I don't want my brains to get knocked out when they go rocketing towards the window. Any unsecured, heavy object inside a car is going to turn into a missile in a bad wreck.
Case in point:
Case in point:
Jason Flare
NES Member
If you don’t pay fines they eventually arrive with guns.
EMS, ER, Surgical all work willingly. If someone objects to shoveling someone off the pavement and into a bodybag they can find a different job they don’t object to.
I’d rather people be given the liberty to make their own choices, otherwise the road we’re going down to avoid injuries includes banning youth football, motorcycles, four wheelers, hang gliding etc.
ETA: Probably not guns though. Nobody thinks guns are dangerous.
I don’t know a single lawful gun owner who has been hassled in a stop, except one.*
Every one of them was let go, without a ticket. I passed a MSP going 82 in a 55 and a rear hatch full of guns and ammo, and he let me go!
The fear-mongering on this forum is unbelievable. Sickening.
* About the one. He was stopped early AM with what appeared to be an open liquor container in the front seat, so they disarmed him. But he was eventually let go without charge.
How do you like these fines?
1.) Preventable injury treated at the hospital. Private insurance billed. Everyone else with that insurance bears the cost.
2.) Preventable injury treated at the hospital. Gov't-subsidized insurance billed. Every tax payer bears the cost.
3.) Preventable injury treated at the hospital. Gov't-subsidized insurance reimburses pitifully low. Every other patient bears the cost.
I work in healthcare and treat people after car wrecks all the time. It's not whether we're willing to work. It's whether someone is wasting our time with something preventable. I'd rather spend my time on someone who wasn't just being stupid.
"I don't want to spend three seconds applying a time-tested safety device that will most likely save my life in an accident. Why? Because then they're going to take away my sports." No points for logic, but you win best straw-man argument of the day.
To answer this, likely, pretty much nothing. MA is not a must notify state. This means only morons bring up guns on traffic stops unless there's a really good overriding reason to do it. That also means that guns are not a common issue on traffic stops unless the stopee or the LEO "makes" it into one. One time a LEO brought it up during the traffic stop (because it flagged on his MDT) and asked me if I was carrying now, I said yes and he was like "Thats great. Have a good night and drive safely". I think honestly he was just trying to shit test me for impairment or something by having a conversation with me at 2:30 am on the side of the road. Out of all the stops it was only ever brought up that ONE time. The rest never mentioned it or never asked about it.
I've been stopped while carrying probably more than most here, although thankfully none more than about 2 years ago at this point, and no cites since 2013...
Now, in saying this, if I was a black guy with a chevy celebrity, with clothesline holding the bumper on, with all the back end lights on my car blown out, I might have a different response about that sort of thing, but even if we're going to suggest that profiling like that exists, I doubt it's magically worse in MA than anywhere else. Over the years I have heard worse stories outside new england and MA than within it.
One thing that I think has a tamping effect in MA is most cops get paid a lot here vs the national average, so this at least somewhat reduces the roadside shitbird condition, you're not going to typically get pulled over by officer rednecky mc f***face who might make like less money than a schoolteacher down there does, and is trying to invent a big drug bust or something to justify his existence and score a big pay jump... most of these guys just want to fill their quota, burn the hours, and go home and don't want drama. That having been said, there are exceptions, and there are still a good number of shitty cops in MA, don't get me wrong, I just think that the tenor of LE here has a different complexion vs a lot of other parts of the country... particularly vs places where they get paid a lot less...
-Mike
Chevy 2 65
NES Member
With a go-pro on
What's the difference between this crap and a broad with a foreign object lodged in her rectum with a life threatening injury caused by it?
Or for that matter a 400 pound broad who comes in with a massive coronary and proudly announces shes going to mcdoudenals to pound a few big macs after
her bypass surgery?
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Are you going to assess those people a fine too?
If not you're being ideologically inconsistent with your rant.
The road you're going down is attempting to "Ban stupidity" and its mind numbing. This is how we ended up with tons of stupid f***ing gun
laws and other malum prohibitum horseshit laws.
Wearing seatbelts is good. Pointing a gun at people to wear seatbelts, not so much.
ETA: oh this one is rich
No offense, but if this bothers you that much, then find a new job. If I had like $100 for every time someone "wasted" my time, I could have easily retired when I turned 30.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
I work in IT and people waste my time with "being stupid" several times every day. It comes with the territory, its part and parcel of customer service, whether its a human body or a computer. Failure to accept this will result in long term dissatisfaction with ones employment in this kind of service industry.
Also, at one end, how is it a waste of your time if you're getting paid to be there? You're still being compensated. It's work. The purpose of which is 99% to get a
paycheck, and the rest is effluvial stuff. This isn't church or some kind of gnomish mysticism where you're volunteering your time.
Now if your argument is the more sound one of- that "these people are consuming limited resources" then we need to make the resources less limited, and that's not a problem of the idiots as it is one of healthcare and medical establishment/system.
-Mike
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What's the difference between this crap and a broad with a foreign object lodged in her rectum with a life threatening injury caused by it?
Or for that matter a 400 pound broad who comes in with a massive coronary and proudly announces shes going to mcdoudenals to pound a few big macs after
her bypass surgery?
Are you going to assess those people a fine too?
If not you're being ideologically inconsistent with your rant.
Not much difference. I'd be inconsistent if I said those other two should be applauded. But I'm not.
All stupid or preventable illness/injury in my clinic waste my time.
All stupid or preventable illness/injury in my tax/insurance jurisdiction wastes my money.
No, I'm arguing for everyone taking personal responsibility. You're arguing, "Let me do whatever I want and demand others pay for it."
And how many people in history do you think have had a gun literally pointed at them for not wearing a seatbelt?
You've shifted the argument from whether seatbelts are a good idea to whether I'm a poor fit for healthcare. Avoiding the point and ad hominem. Call it gnomish mysticism if you like, but I actually thank God every day as I drive to and from work because I have this chance to help people who are sick, injured, or scared. It's just annoying when a few choose not to help themselves and I put 5000% more effort into their wellbeing than they do. Ask anyone in healthcare if they feel differently.No offense, but if this bothers you that much, then find a new job. If I had like $100 for every time someone "wasted" my time, I could have easily retired when I turned 30.
I work in IT and people waste my time with "being stupid" several times every day. It comes with the territory, its part and parcel of customer service, whether its a human body or a computer. Failure to accept this will result in long term dissatisfaction with ones employment in this kind of service industry.
Also, at one end, how is it a waste of your time if you're getting paid to be there? You're still being compensated. It's work. The purpose of which is 99% to get a
paycheck, and the rest is effluvial stuff. This isn't church or some kind of gnomish mysticism where you're volunteering your time.
Three seconds. One click. Lives saved. Professionals' time saved. Everyones' tax/insurance dollars saved. Everybody wins. That's the reasoning behind this law and I agree with it. If you don't, suit yourself. Just don't try to say it makes sense beyond the principle of "Live free AND die!"
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I've been a firefighter for 13 years. Every person who has died in a car accident that I responded to was because of failure to wear a seatbelt. Every. Single. One. And on a side note, I tell all my family and friends NEVER get out of your car on highway. If you absolutely have to, get as quickly as possible behind the guardrail. If there is not guardrail around you are safest in your car. You're better off driving on a flat to one of those cutouts.
Oh wait, now we can't have kids playing (insert sport here) or cheerleading or whatever because they'll get injured and waste your
time. Who gets to be the arbiter of what is appropriate and not too "dumb" or "stupid" ?
See where this is going?
Also by your argument, if you want to be logically consistent, the government should just ban motorcycles too, because the risk profile is too great and the mere act of riding the motorcycle is inherently "Selfish" vs this worldview, particularly given that most motorcycle operators own cars. Motorcycle riders are irresponsible
because they are intentionally engaging in an activity that is far more dangerous than riding in a car. So we should ban them too, right? Is the motorcycle guy who took a corner a little too fast stupid too? Why is he somehow less stupid than the idiot that didn't wear his seatbelt? Please tell us. (also for those reading, I'm not shitting on motorcycle riders here, merely illustrating that freedoms have costs associated with them, and some people don't like hearing that or accepting it).
(or, insert another 44000 things here where humans intentionally expose themselves to additional danger for the sake of entertainment or personal enjoyment)
Not quite. I'm arguing that trying to use the law to "police" people for being stupid WRT their own well being is usually an exercise in futility and usually creates more problems than it solves, especially in this one particular vector. This whole silly mindset of "trying to protect people from themselves in even the smallest corner" is a huge source of terrible laws in this country. (which have a downstream effect on millions of people over generations)
As far as "letting others pay for it" I never said that either. I just think that given the realities of the how shit works WRT medical stuff, someone else is
often going to be paying for it. Trying to assign "responsibility" is often futile and is going to differ depending on the client involved. That broad with the perforated rectum might have an HMO plan that will pay for all that, and maybe or maybe not for some idiot not wearing a seatbelt. However, unless you guys are thinking of ditching the hippocratic oath or public access to care anytime soon, and actually gating access to care at the hard edge (read as, leaving people to die on the side of the road regardless because they can't pay) then even entertaining this part of the discussion (eg, "net cost to public") is sort of silly. We're already paying for shit far worse than a few nippleheads not wearing seatbelts, like full scale medical care for illegals and a whole myriad of oxygen thieves that don't have a pot to piss in. About the only thing they might not actually ever see are high end cancer treatments and so on or perhaps certain transplant elegibility
factors etc.
Also in some cases when a car accident happens, the shithead that caused the accident- THAT person is supposed to be legally and fiscally responsible via their
insurance. If that just "isn't happening" then maybe that part of the system needs to be fixed, you know, something reasonable, instead of asking the cops to
attempt to "force" people to wear their seat belts.
I'm not against holding people responsible. That's a different thing from pointing a gun at someone because you think their behavior might lead to
something with a cost.
Probably not many, but the FACT remains, that if you don't pay your "fines" and you attempt to drive your car, you will likely, at some point, end up having a gun pointed at you. Enforcement of laws eventually carries an implied threat of deadly force at some point or another, or at a bare minimum, some form of
incarceration or imprisonment if the person is compliant.
Also a primary enforcement traffic stop (like the one in this video) the guy was literally pulled over for the "crime" of not wearing a seatbelt. The system has, segued into the first part of putting this guy's life in danger during a traffic stop as well as the LEOs life by making him get out of a car on a street somewhere. (and getting hit by cars is the #1 killer of law enforcement in the US) At least this LEO seemed to wait it out until they were in a quieter location. The law has
just inadvertently created a risk in a ham fisted attempt at trying to prevent another one. Doesn't seem very smart to me, even if statistically neither are
proportional or easy to model. (like for example, I'm sure theres some nipplehead that has somehow fabricated a pseudo-scientific yarn about how seatbelt stops increase seatbelt use, while ignoring the fact that more people probably do it because of increased general awareness of the usefulness of the device vs time and also a normalization of it in our society as a whole. )
Nope, not ad hominem at all, I didn't mean attack you or your character (and I apologize if you think this was some kind of deep cutting personal attack) just suggesting that if you get annoyed by people wasting your time then you perhaps have picked the wrong job. I've had friends that couldn't deal with being an EMT because they had the same problem. Shit pay, a lot of shitty clients, a lot of depression. They moved on. Stewing in annoyance over someones stupidity usually doesn't accomplish much. In lots of fields there are literal tanker trucks worth of stupidity you have to deal with every day.
I'll concede that was a dig, because there's this god complex that SOME medical personnel seem to have that nobody else does. Thankfully I haven't seen it
too often, but when I do, its pretty amusing.
I will also concede that part of your job that is shitty is you can't turn away a shitty customer, so there's that.
Freedom loses, the individual loses, the public loses (through fishing expeditions spurned by a seatbelt). Law enforcement loses, via having another mindless law that causes the public to harbor more contempt for them. All the important stuff that was supposed to be the fabric of our society as americans, all the stuff you're not measuring or don't give a shit about at the hospital. I don't agree with it because its statist crap and just provides a pretext to what should be considered an unlawful traffic stop. Someone not wearing a seatbelt doesn't normally create what I would call a statistically significant community danger.
The root of people not wearing seatbelts is a cultural/driver training defect, not something to be solved with a club, taser, or harassment by law enforcement. Why do people always want to fix problems the half-assed, wrongest way instead of the right way by addressing the root cause? (oh, because its cheaper and it feels good, despite not offering a fraction of the results).
And as far as the actuarial costs, if there was an actual way you could break it down to what the community cost is of a relative handful of knuckleheads not wearing seatbelts, I'm sure the number wouldn't be that horrendous on a per capita basis vs like 300 something million people in the US. So yeah I'll pay the $5 or whatever it is to not have another shitty malum prohibitum law on the books.
Given a choice I'd rather pay for a cost of freedom than deal with some shitty unnecessary law.
And I'll still choose to wear my seatbelt, because I don't need to have a nanny government pointing guns at me to do it.
And that principle is very important to some of us here, not using your words, but the idea that individual freedom is paramount and should pretty much
supercede everything. You are standing in one of the few nations left of the face of the earth that at least pretends to honor that concept somewhat, and yet
you are unable to think deeply enough to embrace it because it "feels wrong" to allow someone that kind of freedom.
This is why I don't bother trying to get people across the bridge anymore.
-Mike
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People need to reread this.
mibro
NES Member
Thank you. Everyone in my family has heard this exact message from me. If you absolutely have to get out, get over the guardrail/barrier immediately. Don't trade a destroyed tire for someone's life.
Several years ago a dude I went to high school with got smoked changing his tire on 190. If he had drove on the rim a quarter mile or more he probably could have saved his life by moving further off the road....
Chevy 2 65
NES Member
Listen to this man !!
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