AHM
NES Member
The mere smell of pot smoke hasn't been probable cause for pulling a car over for nearly a year now.
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Traffic Stop Story
- Thread starter Paul455
- Start date
The mere smell of pot smoke hasn't been probable cause for pulling a car over for nearly a year now.
KMM696
NES Member
Not any more. Commonwealth v. Cruz, 2011 the SJC decided that since less than an ounce was decriminalized, smell alone won't justify a warrantless search. They should use one of the other bs excuses for a search, instead.
Okay, the SJC didn't really mention using other excuses to search, but it's implied.
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
xtry51
NES Member
Just a matter of time before that cop does this to someone who bought one of those "illegal assault weapons" that Healey "chooses not to prosecute you for" but this schmuck can't wait to arrest someone for.
So.. Just out of curiosity.. What is the proper procedure for handling this? You're on the way back from the range with a trunk full o'gun. You get pulled over by this exact officer. Do you have any guns in the car? "Ummm, yes.. 3 ar15, 4 revolvers, 500 rounds of ammo...", or "I don't consent to my vehicle being searched." Or...
There aren't too many ways out of this without getting violated one way or another.
There aren't too many ways out of this without getting violated one way or another.
LittleCalm
NES Member
And what is the practical way to handle this without getting carted off to a cell for several hours? Agree to get out of the car and get patted down but refuse trunk search and instead ask what the PC is that is prompting the cop to want to search the trunk?
[edit: posted same time as Dr. B above!]
[edit: posted same time as Dr. B above!]
Nope. You have to notify, not obtain consent. Either film in plain view so it's obvious, verbally state that you're recording, or get signs for your car that say you're recording.
Do you have any guns in the car?
I don't answer any questions. Am I being detained or am I free to go?
LittleCalm
NES Member
Thanks. So same as when you call a help/support line and they say that the phone conversation may be recorded for training or quality control purposes? You can then hang up if you don't want to be recorded.
- - - Updated - - -
Seen it. Question is still realistically what is likely to happen when you politely tell the cop to bugger off?
Depends on how much of a jerk the cop is. If he's only a small type jerk pulling the roadside libertarian thing on him might convince him to leave you
alone (assuming you've fulfilled whatever minimal legal requirements exist) because now you've just given him a signal that you're not going to put up with the BS.
On the other hand if the cop is a mega douchebag type, the chances of them "doubling down on going full retard" at that point are pretty good.
It also depends on how you deliver the message. This is a difficult nuance to get. EG- theres ways to handle the situation without being a
douchebag- of course this is difficult because of the context of the situation; it's hard to be "polite" when someone is asking if they can violate your rights.
-Mike
In God We Trust
NES Member
Yes you have to step out. You can be patted down for weapons without consent or probable cause. All that is needed is "reasonable suspicion".
Cop was a total dick. Never ever consent to a search.
I would have told the guy "the stop is over and you see that I have a license. What difference does it make if I am armed? If you are scared, get back in your car and **** off"
LittleCalm
NES Member
Thanks Mike. That is a sensible analysis. I think you take a shot at saying gee officer I'm trying to cooperate but don't understand what I have done wrong or why you think there is cause to search me/my vehicle, so I'm not willing to consent to any kind of search other than a pat down for your safety. If I was speeding or my tail light is out, I get that you can ticket me for that. Beyond that, I don't see how I am in trouble.
JayMcB
NES Member
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What about the other scenario?
MSP: "I see you have an LTC. Are you carrying any weapons?"
Me (hands on wheel in plain sight): "Yes, I have an LTC and yes, I am carrying. How would you like to proceed?"
Then what? Am I going to get cuffed and stuffed (or worse) for checking my GPS now?
MSP: "I see you have an LTC. Are you carrying any weapons?"
Me (hands on wheel in plain sight): "Yes, I have an LTC and yes, I am carrying. How would you like to proceed?"
Then what? Am I going to get cuffed and stuffed (or worse) for checking my GPS now?
Horrible
NES Member
Ran into a good friend today, and we spent some time catching up on hunting, trap, shooting, and guns.
He told me that he was stopped by a state trooper on Route 16 near Boston. The trooper accused him of texting (he was looking at his GPS).
The trooper wrote him a ticket for texting, and when he was being handed the ticket, the trooper says "I see you have a LTC. Do you have any guns in the car?"
My buddy tells him that he does not have any guns in the car. The trooper says "Do you mind if I look in the trunk?" My buddy lets the trooper look in the trunk.....
Then, the trooper asks him "Do have have a gun on your person?" My buddy tells him that he does not have a gun on him.
The trooper says 'I don't believe you. Please step out of the car". My buddy then is led to the rear of the police cruiser, and has to put his hands on the trunk and get patted down.....
This whole episode took almost a half hour....totaly B.S.
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
![[angry]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/008.gif "Angry [angry]")
Ladies and Gentlemen, the REAL reason we have BS Texting while driving lawrs.
Just yet another open door to violate 4A!
It has worked for me. I was pulled over on my way back from the gym late one night and my tail lights were off (not out) I got pulled over a town over from where I live and the cop asked me if i was drinking and told me my tail lights were out. I was respectful the entire time explained that I don't drink (I really don't) he pointed to a tall can in my cup holder which was from a protein drink which I showed him as such and that I was on my way back from the gym and had no excuse for the lights being off other than I must have hit the switch with my knee. He had me turn them on, checked them, went back to his cruiser told me he didn't think I was drinking and asked me if I was ok with him searching my vehicle. Again being respectful I said no I wasn't ok with it and asked if I was being ticketed. I am sure he saw my GOAL and NRA stickers on the back of my SUV. He issued me a warning and I went on my way.
This was my most recent incident. I am no way under the impression that all LEO's would respect the law/power like he did in this case.
Edit: Other thing to keep in mind is they just graduated a MSP class. So there are 200 or so new troopers roaming the highways looking for excuses to jack people up.
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If he is pulling you over for a reason he can articulate (even if it is some BS thing like driving too close to the line), you are being detained. Don't bother asking it... You are just pissing him off and greatly increasing the odds of a ticket (or worse).
I would suggest only try to play the "am I being detained" game in the rare case where it obviously is BS such as a DUI checkpoint or one of those internal border patrols. Or if you were just walking down the sidewalk.
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An officer may perform a pat down of your person to check for weapons at ANY time for ANY reason during an interaction with you. He may ask you to step out of the vehicle to do so. I believe it's the "Terry vs. ????" case that allows this.
This does not give him permission to search your vehicle, nor permission to search your person for anything other than a weapon (can't look in your shoes for drugs)
This does not give him permission to search your vehicle, nor permission to search your person for anything other than a weapon (can't look in your shoes for drugs)
My wife's cousin got the "are there any guns in the car?" question yesterday after sliding through a stop sign in Malden yesterday. His situation went differently though. He said "no" and the cop asked "But you have an LTC, right?" He told him that he did, but his license was restricted and he couldn't carry. lol. Cop didn't ticket him or hold him up any longer and let him go on his way without asking to search the truck.
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