TrackingPoint going under

[SilentOverlord]

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015...mart-gun-company-stops-orders-lays-off-staff/

 

[mclina]

I'm kind of torn on this one.

On the one hand, you hate to see a company in the industry fail. They were making an innovative product.

On the other hand, I was getting sick of antis talking about 'self shooting guns' and 'guided bullets'.

Also, I couldn't afford one, and would have no use for one if I could.

 

[Cartoons]

[tinfoil hat] anyone else think this is kind of fishy? Brand new cool technology and SUDDENLY the company goes under? Something is not right... [/tinfoil hat]

 

[jkelly1229]

I don't have anything over a 308 due to length constructions in MA longest range I know is 500 yards but on one hand it's cool to nail a bullseye from 1000 yards but wouldn't doing it yourself be more satisfying idk if I want a computerized weapon I can buy a 60 dollar video game. But that said I see the application of having one just what happens when your fancy computer craps out sweet 338 that you can't shoot

 

[mclina]

I don't have anything over a 308 due to length constructions in MA longest range I know is 500 yards but on one hand it's cool to nail a bullseye from 1000 yards but wouldn't doing it yourself be more satisfying idk if I want a computerized weapon I can buy a 60 dollar video game. But that said I see the application of having one just what happens when your fancy computer craps out sweet 338 that you can't shoot

I think this may be the reason they are failing. Serious shooters would be embarassed to rely on technology like this to hit their targets, and less serious shooters probably couldn't afford/justify it.

 

[drgrant]

I think this may be the reason they are failing. Serious shooters would be embarassed to rely on technology like this to hit their targets, and less serious shooters probably couldn't afford/justify it.

The other problem is if these scopes they sell are big money what has the better cool factor... NVG/Thermal or some gimmicky thing that tries to compensate for shitty marksmanship?

 

[DrBurnsides]

Thermal has more appeal to me..

 

[PappyM3]

[tinfoil hat] anyone else think this is kind of fishy? Brand new cool technology and SUDDENLY the company goes under? Something is not right... [/tinfoil hat]

It's expensive and nothing more than a novelty for civilian shooters which means only a select few super-rich shooters will buy it. On the military side, things like this usually come out of broad agency announcements. It's rare that a company develops a new technology and the military purchases it without solicitation first. The difficulties on both civilian/military sides of the coin mean that they most likely can't recoup their R&D costs fast enough. I admire their entrepreneurial spirit, but I saw this one coming.

 

[PappyM3]

.. some gimmicky thing that tries to compensate for shitty marksmanship?

While news outlets have been billing it as something that poor marksman can use right away, it still requires marksmanship. You still need smooth trigger squeeze and a steady rifle. But I definitely get where you're coming from.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

This is kind of surprising. I've been following this company courtesy of the anti crowd. Based upon what they tell me, I figured there were enough demand from all the terrorists and white supremacists in the US to keep this company profitable for decades.

TrackingPoint spokesman defends precision firearms

“There are three groups who will buy these rifles — insurrectionists, terrorists and hate groups,” Fineman said in a recent statement. “Given the sniper rifle’s deadly accuracy, no one is safe — this cannot be allowed.”

BTW 0 Elliot Fineman is certified bat-shit crazy.

Seriously, it's an ultra-niche market. I never saw a civilian use and didn't think that it brought enough to the military to be worthwhile. I'm not surprised they went under.

 

[LoginName]

The other problem is if these scopes they sell are big money what has the better cool factor... NVG/Thermal or some gimmicky thing that tries to compensate for shitty marksmanship?

Yeah... $25,000 is a bit of a boner killer.

 

[Glockster30]

While news outlets have been billing it as something that poor marksman can use right away, it still requires marksmanship. You still need smooth trigger squeeze and a steady rifle. But I definitely get where you're coming from.

Pappy, I'm not too sure that this system works that way. According to another article, it appears that the computer tags the object you want to shoot with a digital white dot. Once you line up the tag on the object, there is a "red button" that you press to lock the tag on the target. When a set of crosshairs appear, you depress and hold the trigger. As soon as the crosshairs line up with the tag, the trigger releases on its own to fire the round (so, it doesn't appear that too much marksmanship is involved).

As I got ready, I saw a digital white dot in the center of my field of view. That was my tag. Crocker told me to line the dot up with my target and then push a little red button next to my trigger. Once that was done, the tag stayed on my target. Next, crosshairs appeared through my scope and Crocker told me to pull the trigger and keep it depressed as I lined the crosshairs up with my tag. As soon as those crosshairs landed on my tag, the trigger released on its own and the gun fired its round.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...hIOoBg&usg=AFQjCNFtViQsbRHcUna7D0N7qxpTRE-tgg

 

[EddieCoyle]

Pappy, I'm not too sure that this system works that way. According to another article, it appears that the computer tags the object you want to shoot with a digital white dot. Once you line up the tag on the object, there is a "red button" that you press to lock the tag on the target. When a set of crosshairs appear, you depress and hold the trigger. As soon as the crosshairs line up with the tag, the trigger releases on its own to fire the round (so, it doesn't appear that too much marksmanship is involved).



https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...hIOoBg&usg=AFQjCNFtViQsbRHcUna7D0N7qxpTRE-tgg

What if the target is moving?

 

[Boris]

What if the target is moving?

Proly same thing as shaking hands, when crosshairs go green it would fire.

 

[Glockster30]

What if the target is moving?

Jim, buried in the long article I attached, it mentions the following for a moving target:

The system works the same way for moving targets -- once tagged, the tag stays on the target. "First shot is a tenfold improvement over what most trained shooters can do," Crocker said. "I've shot with the best. I've shot with Olympians in Finland, and nothing comes close to the capabilities we have. There are so many things that Mr. McHale conceptualized. That's how I personally became so wowed, how many innovations he brought into the system."

 

[jasons]

I still don't understand how it measured wind speed.

 

[Glockster30]

I still don't understand how it measured wind speed.

I was wondering that too, so I went to their website. Apparently, everything is calculated by the scope's computer, which uses a HUD display as described below showing wind velocity and direction, temperature, barometric pressure, among other data.

Heads-Up Display (HUD)
HUD is what you see when you look into your Precision-Guided Firearm. It’s the digital display that shows the field of view. The key user-interface between the shooter and the Precision-Guided Firearm, the HUD displays your target, along with vital pieces of data including range-to-target, target velocity, shot angle, compass heading, gun cant, battery status, WiFi status, wind velocity and direction, kill zone size, ammunition type, temperature, barometric pressure, and time of day.

 

[jasons]

I was wondering that too, so I went to their website. Apparently, everything is calculated by the scope's computer, which uses a HUD display as described below showing wind velocity and direction, temperature, barometric pressure, among other data.

Yeah, I see that it displayed wind speed and direction I'm just not seeing how it gets that data.

 

[mclina]

Yeah, I see that it displayed wind speed and direction I'm just not seeing how it gets that data.

I'm guessing that wind speed, direction, and barometric pressure might come through the wifi link from a weather service. Definitely wouldn't be that accurate at a given location.

 

[Glockster30]

I'm guessing that wind speed, direction, and barometric pressure might come through the wifi link from a weather service. Definitely wouldn't be that accurate at a given location.

Could be the reason for the company going under...it doesn't work that well, in addition to the $25,000 price tag.

 

[LoginName]

Yeah, I see that it displayed wind speed and direction I'm just not seeing how it gets that data.

Something like this, and you have to manually input (or Bluetooth link), the info?...

http://www.amazon.com/AT-Digital-Handheld-Anemometer-Thermometer/dp/B00NMNB5A6

 

[Boris]

Something like this, and you have to manually input (or Bluetooth link), the info?...

http://www.amazon.com/AT-Digital-Handheld-Anemometer-Thermometer/dp/B00NMNB5A6

that would not work well for shooting over long distances or weird terrain where air currents would differ from spot to spot.

 

[LoginName]

that would not work well for shooting over long distances or weird terrain where air currents would differ from spot to spot.

I figured as much, but without any other wind speed indicators down range (flags, trees, smoke, mirage, etc), its at least an alternative.

 

[jasons]

Something like this, and you have to manually input (or Bluetooth link), the info?...

Those things are pretty much useless even for midrange distances.

 

[PappyM3]

There are kestrel meters with bluetooth, so it most likely has the option to read that value wirelessly.

Those things are pretty much useless even for midrange distances.

They're pretty good for local barometric pressure and consistent wind speed and direction. When there's a consistent wind over the course of the bullet's flight path, they are great. But of course, the wind speed at the start of the external ballistics has the least impact on the bullet, so you're right that they're not very helpful when the wind speeds/directions are different at different points along the bullet's flight path.

Another way the scope could potentially determine wind speed and direction would be with some computer vision algorithms and machine learning. They could train it to interpret foliage or dust movement, given a good enough resolution. Though, it probably wouldn't be able to see mirage and the results of the other features would be rudimentary at best. So I doubt they're using that method.

 

[the_shootist]

[tinfoil hat] anyone else think this is kind of fishy? Brand new cool technology and SUDDENLY the company goes under? Something is not right... [/tinfoil hat]

No tin foil necessary IMHO....something doesn't pass the smell test on this. There are MANY gun owners who crave the latest and greatest...AND have enough money to bury these guys in orders.

 

[LoginName]

Those things are pretty much useless even for midrange distances.

Found your answer, the data is manually input (4:55)...



As far as the user being capable of entering accurate data by whatever means available, seems to be the weak link in the system,

at least for a totally inexperienced shooter.

 

[Glockster30]

Okay, got one of the answers. The user inputs the wind speed and direction manually into the scope. The computer does everything else among others such as coriolis effect, cant, inclination, barrel length, lock time, drag coefficient, magnus effect, etc.

All of the firearms use the company’s TTX system – which tracks Range, drop, magnus effect, spindrift, coriolis effect, direction, cant, inclination, pressure, temperature, humidity, muzzle velocity, barrel length and twist, lock time, ballistic coefficient, and drag coefficient, according to DigitalTrends. Wind direction and speed are also tracked, but those must be input manually, the site noted.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fsciencetech%2Farticle-2540879%2FUS-Military-testing-smart-rifle-automatically-aim-turn-ANYONE-sharp-shooter.html&ei=xiddVbXAA9DHsQTnuoOoCw&usg=AFQjCNF_Dp43Gie9D9_-OMC-1i199y3QMw

 

[jasons]

Found your answer, the data is manually input (4:55)...



As far as the user being capable of entering accurate data by whatever means available, seems to be the weak link in the system,

at least for a totally inexperienced shooter.

Even for an experienced shooter calling the wind is by far the hardest part of the equation. Everything else is relatively simple math, looking at some leaves downrange and saying "that's X mph" is almost an art form, catching a subtle change after the fact, and before you actually pull the trigger, is black magic. (To me anyway....)

So it was basically $25,000 for a fancy ballistics calculator built into a scope. No wonder they went under.

 

[Boris]

Even for an experienced shooter calling the wind is by far the hardest part of the equation. Everything else is relatively simple math, looking at some leaves downrange and saying "that's X mph" is almost an art form, catching a subtle change after the fact, and before you actually pull the trigger, is black magic. (To me anyway....)

So it was basically $25,000 for a fancy ballistics calculator built into a scope. No wonder they went under.

not to mention if wind come in gusts