Top reasons for NICS denial

Joined
Oct 26, 2005
Messages
3,982
Likes
595
Location
Central PRM
Feedback: 20 / 0 / 0
57 people actually renounced their citizenship?

Top reasons feds won?t let you buy a gun | Narco Confidential | a Chron.com blog

image_zps6fa4f57e.jpg
 
12,544 illegals actually applied for permits?

You have been living in MA too long. In MOST states, you walk into a gun store, buy a gun, and go home.

I'd be curious to know how the NICS check knew they were illegal. Wouldn't that imply that they were in the system? If that is the case, then how many illegals with good fake ID's and matching SSN's did successfully buy guns?
 
57 people actually renounced their citizenship?

More than that do it yearly, and now that they're trying to tax offshore assets of dual citizenship people, that number will grow.

It is interesting that those 57 renounced citizenship and then tried to buy a gun.
 
More than that do it yearly, and now that they're trying to tax offshore assets of dual citizenship people, that number will grow.

It is interesting that those 57 renounced citizenship and then tried to buy a gun.

Just to expand on this a bit, thousands of Americans are renouncing their citizenship very year, though you aren't reading about it anywhere except The Wall Street Journal and maybe The Economist.

The current state of taxation for expats and Americans who split time between countries is horrible. You pay more taxes as an American living and working overseas than you would if you lived in the US, and more than if you were a citizen of the country you actually live in.

There are also lots of other countries where you can live a lot cheaper if you are already rich. The same thing is happening in France and the UK, except there people are leaving the country because the domestic tax rates are so high.

Let's perform a thought experiment: if the very wealthy don't pay taxes, and 'the poor' don't pay taxes, and the government is all about the middle class, who actually do pay all the taxes, then how do you raise taxes and not have the middle class be the ones who pay?
 
I wonder what "federally denied person" is.

Not sure this helps.

https://www.fsd.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/139/~/what-is-a-denied-persons-list?

The purpose of 'The Denied Persons List' is to: prevent the illegal export of dual-use items before they occur; investigate and assist in the prosecution of violators of the Export Administration Regulations (EAR) and the Fastener Quality Act (FQA); and inform and educate exporters, freight forwarders, and manufacturers of their enforcement responsibilities under the EAR and FQA. The list is created by U.S. Bureau of Industry and Security as part of BIS's Export Enforcement (EE) program. You may access the U.S. Department of Commerce, Bureau of Industry and Security's Denied Persons List at BIS Website. Click on the Lists to Check link located to the left of the screen.
 
The current state of taxation for expats and Americans who split time between countries is horrible. You pay more taxes as an American living and working overseas than you would if you lived in the US, and more than if you were a citizen of the country you actually live in.

It's worse than that. The US policy is that a US citizen who lives abroad 100% of the year still owes US taxes on any money earned. A typical renouncer is a US citizen who has made another country their home and, but for taxation, has no reason to renounce citizenship.
 
I'd be curious to know how the NICS check knew they were illegal. Wouldn't that imply that they were in the system?

maybe they answered the questions on that form (4473 I think it is) honestly where it asks about your citizenship. Stupid but honest and they can't get nailed for falsifying the document, just denied.
 
I wonder what "federally denied person" is.

That was my first thought.

I did a little digging, and found this...

AAG Rachel L. Brand said:
When the NICS was first established, the FBI created a new database for the collection of information not already included in the III or NCIC on persons who are prohibited under Federal law from possessing firearms. The NICS Index currently contains over 4.3 million such records. Of these, 3.6 million have been submitted by the United States Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) on removable aliens who fall within the category of illegal aliens prohibited from receiving guns. The other categories of records contained within the NICS Index include individuals who have received a dishonorable discharge from the armed forces, individuals who have renounced their United States citizenship, individuals who have been adjudicated by a court, commission, board, or other lawful authority as a danger to themselves of others or incapable of managing their own affairs or who have been involuntarily committed to a mental institution, and individuals who have been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence. The NICS Index also includes a Denied Persons File that contains any records that do not meet the criteria for entry into NCIC or III, but that nevertheless demonstrate an individual is federally prohibited under any of the categories under the Gun Control Act. Examples of records in the Denied Persons File include protection orders or active arrest warrants that are not eligible for entry in NCIC, persons who are under court order not to possess a firearm as a condition of deferred adjudication, a felony conviction posted to the State record that is not reflected in the III, and prohibiting mental health records that cannot be placed in the NICS Index’s Mental Defective File because State law or policy prevents the submitting State from identifying the information as a mental health record.

>snip<

There are two files in the NICS Index into which Federal agencies and the States can enter information about individuals who have a disqualifying mental health history – the Mental Defective File and the Denied Person File. The Mental Defective File contains only the names and other biographical information, such as date of birth or social security numbers, of the individuals with a disqualifying mental health history. The Denied Persons File contains the names and biographical information of individuals who are prohibited from receiving a firearm, but whose record is not entered into another system or file checked by the NICS. The FBI allows States to enter names about disqualifying mental health histories in the Denied Persons file. This allows a State to share this information for purposes of NICS checks without necessarily identifying the person whose name is entered as having a mental health history. Neither file contains information about medical records or the details of the mental health history. If a prospective firearm purchaser is found to match a name in the file, the proposed gun transfer is denied. If the individual wishes to challenge the denial, the agency that provided the name then becomes involved in the appeal
and the review of the underlying facts.


>snip<

States may, at their discretion, submit names of persons disqualified on mental health grounds into the Denied Persons File instead of the Mental Defective File. When a State submits a name to the Denied Persons File, it does not indicate why the person is disqualified. Therefore, the NICS Section is unaware of how many of the records submitted to the Denied Persons File relate to mental health. A State may choose to submit information this way if, for example, it has privacy-related concerns about informing the Federal system which records relate to mental health.

Testimony of Assistant Attorney General Rachel L. Brand, "LETHAL LOOPHOLES: DEFICIENCIES IN STATE AND FEDERAL GUN PURCHASE LAWS
 
I am astounded that the number three reason (practically tied with number two) is "fugitive from justice." Really? You're on the lam so you decide it's a good idea to submit yourself to a background check? Holy crap. I guess it's true, you can't fix stupid.
 
I am astounded that the number three reason (practically tied with number two) is "fugitive from justice." Really? You're on the lam so you decide it's a good idea to submit yourself to a background check? Holy crap. I guess it's true, you can't fix stupid.

I wonder how many people knew they were fugitives? My buddies ex had a warrant out for her arrest for grand theft auto due to some confusion at a car rental place and she didn't know about it until the police called him looking for her.
 
I wonder how many people knew they were fugitives? My buddies ex had a warrant out for her arrest for grand theft auto due to some confusion at a car rental place and she didn't know about it until the police called him looking for her.

Good point. So now I wonder how many of those wound up being false positives.
 
You have been living in MA too long. In MOST states, you walk into a gun store, buy a gun, and go home.

I'd be curious to know how the NICS check knew they were illegal. Wouldn't that imply that they were in the system? If that is the case, then how many illegals with good fake ID's and matching SSN's did successfully buy guns?

Most of them are too stupid to lie on the form and just say they're citizens- NICS has no way of proving this.

NICS does not check SSNs, either, you can leave that blank. They might check immigration records if documentation or numbers are supplied as part of the 4473. That would probably be where half of them get denied, they're running on "expired papers" or whatever and aren't supposed to be in the country any more.

-Mike
 
I would absolutely love to know how many people denied as part of #2 are women as opposed to men.

-Mike
 
How many who were validly rejected were prosecuted under the law?

0. (rounded down)

They whack a few people here and there but I think the feds only look at a small percentage of denials.

Probably not a bad thing considering that the system falses a LOT. Some of the people harassed by the feds would be 100% innocent of
any wrongdoing, but only flagged because NICS blows chunks. There are thousands of reversals every year.

-Mike
 
57 renounced their citizenship?
The IRS publishes a quarterly listing of people who renounce their citizenship. Every quarter there's a lot more than 57. That's just the ones who renounced and then apparently applied for a license, or whatever. In the first quarter or 2013, for example, there were 679 people who renounced. Think that's a lot? Try 1,130 in the second quarter of 2013. I have had one client call me up and ask about renouncing, too. I was able to dissuade him, but many of these people have tunnel vision with respect to taxes and aren't really looking at the big picture. WSJ article on the subject.
 
Ok so I was just "Red Flagged" today at the Plymouth show. When trying to purchase a Long gun from a local MA dealer, I was told not to worry about it, that by the end of the week the sale should go thru ! Its not my first purchase but is the first time I ran into this denial of a purchase.

What gives here ? Are they following a different criteria for gun show purchases ?
This is somewhat inconvenience and will require additional time & expence. If they (FBI) rejects this sale what or how does one go about filling a petition ?
I thought the assigned Pin # was to stream-line all this info & allow the sale to go thru faster ?
I also noticed that this dealer was not interested in my LTC Pin # ? Now he said that that pin was for the State only not for the FBI portion
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom