To ALL gun owners here please read this (THAT MEANS YOU)

[Sir_Gawain]

I ask all of you to please do this.

AS GUN OWNERS AND SUPPORTERS OF OUR CONSTITUTION WE CAN NOT FUEL THE FLAMES OF CHANGE () BEING CALLED FOR.

There is thread after thread here littered with the bashing of liberals and postings of Facebook conversations showing insults and arguments being had at the mention of gun bans and gun control.

WE CANNOT AFFORD TO LOOK/SOUND LIKE A BUNCH OF HILLBILLIES PERTECTIN OUR PURDY TOYS.

WE NEED TO DEFEND THIS BS FULL FLEDGED, BUT NEED TO DO SO WITHOUT ENGAGING WITH INSULT AND ANGER. WE WILL ONLY FUEL THE FIRE.

Take the time point out to people that As awful these shooting are and have been, its important to note that of ALL the guns LEGALLY owned in the US, the average number of deaths by mass shootings averages roughly 88 people per year. As tragic and horrific these events are, it is one of the rarest forms of death we face. Changes need to be made in our country to help those in need of help. What is not needed is an attack on our civil liberties. Tell them to take a look into the history books and see what good has come from a nation that disarms its people...they will find nothing but truly disturbing facts.

I know i will probably take a ton of shit for this, but to me it needs to be said. We are under attack for being true patriots to our country, we should take some pride and defend our rights as our professionally as possible. We will get the most accomplished that way.

 

[crazymjb]

Amen

Mike

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

 

[newportri]

I agree. Although most people here agree that strictier gunlaws is not the solution, the reality we are faced with is that many do not think the same way we do especially after a tragedy like the one at Sandy Hook Elementary School. Namecalling and bashing those who are against us will not lead to any good and will only hurt our cause. We need to come up with intelligent arguments to why stricter gun control is not the solution.

 

[Mattyweb]

I agree commpletely though i will not sit by why someone who is uninformed spouts the untrue rhetoric we often hear. As you say, we should respond with respect. What would really help me is a source (sticky?) of facts with citations to back up the facts. I know it has been talked about here before. Is there such a thread? We throw around a lot of statements, car accident, swimming pools, etc. Some of you are much more informed than i am and i would appreciate if we had a central resource for this.

 

[mikem317]

The best thing for all peaceable, lawful gun owners, pretty much everybody here on NES, is to redouble our efforts and play to our strengths.

1. Some of us are elected officials, and I encourage them to tender bills in their respective legislative bodies that protect and expand our Constitutionally-guaranteed rights.
2. If you haven't already done so, join GOAL, GOA, NRA, JPFO, etc. Already a member? Consider purchasing a lifetime membership.
3. Talk to folks that are on the fence on gun-rights. Look, there's 10%, maybe 20% of Americans that are steadfastly anti-gun and you're not going to change their mind. There's probably another 10% to 20% that are on the fence. Educate them. Nicely.
4. Write your elected officials. I plan on sending my letters out, paper and email, sometime next week before Christmas. Write them.
5. Buy more guns. NICS checks are growing sequentially each and every month, at least according to the data I look at. Most new gun purchases require them, so this helps "send the message".
6. If you're a new NESer, go get your MA LTC, NH P/R, etc. Start the process today. Get a non-resident, e.g. NH, if you're up here often.
7. Subscribe to gun-related email alerts, paper magazines (e.g. Guns & Ammo, etc.)
8. Consider expanding into a different area of firearms sport (e.g. if you just own a shotgun or handgun for HD, consider learning more about hunting, trap shooting, etc.)
9. Join a gun club or range. If you're already a member at one, consider purchasing a second membership near work.
10. Give somebody a gift membership to the NRA, club, magazine subscription, etc. Good gift idea for the holidays.
11. Commit to take a least one "new" person shooting to your club every time you go shooting.

I guess it might be ironic to some, but I firmly believe that more freedom is the answer here. Not less.

 

[Bfatz]

To think that our children will be well protected by putting a lock on a glass door, is simply insane.

Gun free zones will create easy targets, those that are protected with the threat of force, are much safer.

Take another good hard look at this picture, and ask yourself a simple question.

Are these children safe?

 

[cekim]

To think that our children will be well protected by putting a lock on a glass door, is simply insane.

Gun free zones will create easy targets, those that are protected with the threat of force, are much safer.

Take another good hard look at this picture, and ask yourself a simple question.

Are these children safe?

I'd say she needs a real rifle and she likely does not have the mag in the well or a round chambered per my understanding of IDF rules. So, they could be better protected, but certainly they are better off than those in a gun-free zone.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

Bfatz: gotta love Israel!

 

[cekim]

Bfatz: gotta love Israel!

Their gun laws are as broken as MA FWIW. They do some things right (like the picture above), but many things wrong too.

 

[Mike-Mike]

I just put this on Facebook... Flame away all you want - If we dont engage these people nobody will -

"There is so much (gun related) misinformation on the news. As firearms instructor, I will politely answer your questions honestly and with facts should you reach out to me with a question. I am not trolling for a debate, just offering a service to help with the confusion or misinformation. (Other instructors please feel free to re-post this. )"

 

[AngelKing]

I dont disagree with you, not in the least.

I do think we need to get together as a group, work with other shooters forums across the country and mount a cogent fight against this crap. Because even if you're on the fence and have no problem with regs on hi caps and military rifles, they aren't stopping there.

If anyone has a problem with what this poster says, please, the next time you have a thought, let it go - the eyes of the country are on US, blaming US for something some MORON did - we NEED to make this distinction clearly and rationally.

NES SUMMIT.

I ask all of you to please do this.

AS GUN OWNERS AND SUPPORTERS OF OUR CONSTITUTION WE CAN NOT FUEL THE FLAMES OF CHANGE () BEING CALLED FOR.

There is thread after thread here littered with the bashing of liberals and postings of Facebook conversations showing insults and arguments being had at the mention of gun bans and gun control.

WE CANNOT AFFORD TO LOOK/SOUND LIKE A BUNCH OF HILLBILLIES PERTECTIN OUR PURDY TOYS.

WE NEED TO DEFEND THIS BS FULL FLEDGED, BUT NEED TO DO SO WITHOUT ENGAGING WITH INSULT AND ANGER. WE WILL ONLY FUEL THE FIRE.

Take the time point out to people that As awful these shooting are and have been, its important to note that of ALL the guns LEGALLY owned in the US, the average number of deaths by mass shootings averages roughly 88 people per year. As tragic and horrific these events are, it is one of the rarest forms of death we face. Changes need to be made in our country to help those in need of help. What is not needed is an attack on our civil liberties. Tell them to take a look into the history books and see what good has come from a nation that disarms its people...they will find nothing but truly disturbing facts.

I know i will probably take a ton of shit for this, but to me it needs to be said. We are under attack for being true patriots to our country, we should take some pride and defend our rights as our professionally as possible. We will get the most accomplished that way.

 

[Pete85]

"There is so much (gun related) misinformation on the news. As firearms instructor, I will politely answer your questions honestly and with facts should you reach out to me with a question. I am not trolling for a debate, just offering a service to help with the confusion or misinformation. (Other instructors please feel free to re-post this. )"

+1

Misinformation is what's hurting our cause more than anything. The more people we educate the better our chances of securing our freedom for generations to come. You wouldn't believe the number of people I've corrected who believe that semi-automatic means that you just need to press the trigger and it sprays hundreds of rounds as long as you hold the trigger in. Too many people are believing the media misinformation.

Everyone here should take at least one new person to the range. Educate them about guns, about gun safety, about gun laws etc. Let them fire a semi-automatic for themselves. I've taken a few first time shooters to the range and I still haven't had one who hasn't had at least some part of their perception and indoctrination about guns challenged, and most have said they felt they had been lied to about guns for most of their lives.

 

[Reason]

Just read this: http://www.eoffshore.com/real-reason-for-gun-ownership

Preaching to the choir here, but lots of good ammo (no pun intended) to back up your arguments.

 

[calsdad]

+1

Misinformation is what's hurting our cause more than anything. The more people we educate the better our chances of securing our freedom for generations to come. You wouldn't believe the number of people I've corrected who believe that semi-automatic means that you just need to press the trigger and it sprays hundreds of rounds as long as you hold the trigger in. Too many people are believing the media misinformation.

Everyone here should take at least one new person to the range. Educate them about guns, about gun safety, about gun laws etc. Let them fire a semi-automatic for themselves. I've taken a few first time shooters to the range and I still haven't had one who hasn't had at least some part of their perception and indoctrination about guns challenged, and most have said they felt they had been lied to about guns for most of their lives.

I think that's a big part of the problem. The thing I see a lot of gun owners doing is falling back on " the 2nd amendment says".

The anti-gun people will just respond to that with " I don't care what the 2nd amendment says - the founders got that wrong".

Somebody who was TRULY educated as to the reasons for civilian ownership of the means of personal defense - and defense of liberty AGAINST GOVERNMENTS - wouldn't have to fall back on constantly saying " the second amendment says". They would KNOW exactly why firearms MUST be in the hands of civilians. Both from a personal defense viewpoint - but also from a viewpoint of the original intent of the 2nd - to defend against tyrannical government.

The fact that so many people on the pro-gun side seem to be so utterly retarded in their defense of gun ownership - is IMHO one of the biggest things that is burying us.

SMARTEN UP PEOPLE.

There is actually a LOT more at stake here than just your gun rights.

 

[AngelKing]

We have to avoid empty rhetoric and wild emotionalism. Thats their game- we as a community need to be very open and public and do so in a sane manner. That means not calling 96.9 quoting Franklin or shouting people down. It means rational discourse with no Ted nugent flare for the.dramatic.

 

[Horrible]

I just put this on Facebook... Flame away all you want - If we dont engage these people nobody will -

"There is so much (gun related) misinformation on the news. As firearms instructor, I will politely answer your questions honestly and with facts should you reach out to me with a question. I am not trolling for a debate, just offering a service to help with the confusion or misinformation. (Other instructors please feel free to re-post this. )"

Mike - thank you for doing this. Emotions and mis-information for sure are getting in the way of the facts here. All one needs to do is turn on the news to see this.

Social media is also wrought with this mis information and emotional reaction to this awful tragedy.

 

[knoxy]

I've just been sticking to "Don't make new laws against law abiding citizens." and pointing out the actual statistics regarding guns & crime.

By not coming across as a toothless redneck, I've got a few libs actually willing to come to the range with me.

 

[Terminator03]

I think that's a big part of the problem. The thing I see a lot of gun owners doing is falling back on " the 2nd amendment says".

The anti-gun people will just respond to that with " I don't care what the 2nd amendment says - the founders got that wrong".

Somebody who was TRULY educated as to the reasons for civilian ownership of the means of personal defense - and defense of liberty AGAINST GOVERNMENTS - wouldn't have to fall back on constantly saying " the second amendment says". They would KNOW exactly why firearms MUST be in the hands of civilians. Both from a personal defense viewpoint - but also from a viewpoint of the original intent of the 2nd - to defend against tyrannical government.

The fact that so many people on the pro-gun side seem to be so utterly retarded in their defense of gun ownership - is IMHO one of the biggest things that is burying us.

SMARTEN UP PEOPLE.

There is actually a LOT more at stake here than just your gun rights.

I agree with you, but the whole "falling back on what it says in the 2A" is a simplistic argument that has become the the PC "go to" argument because gun owners are conditioned to believe that we are doing something that is dark, evil and killy, so we can't just say "why" we really have our guns because it scares the sheep into thinking we are just crazed hillbillies! Not sure what the answer is, but I'm pretty sure that me telling my liberal neighbor that I own guns to kill bad guys if they try to harm my family, or to defend against a tyrannical government isn't going to sway their mindset in the direction I would like!

 

[AngelKing]

Thats why I think as a community, we need to come together and organize in a manner not online. We need to come together and form a message and appoint the cogent among us to speak to those who would either seek to strip us of our rights or to those who remain on the fence.

Its going to take work, its going to piss a lot of people off inside our own community who are used to spouting NRA talking points. The problem is the NRA has remained silent to the point where we're pissing in the wind here. The ones who DO speak, say things at the wrong time (arm the teachers comes to mind). There has to be a decisive information campaign assembled and WE should take the lead.

There are a great many, as the OP stated, intelligent folks on this very board - politicians, instructors, cops, EMTs, attorneys and writers - ALL of us can make a difference but we need to agree on a message. Remember Occupy Wall Street? They were in the faces of the media for MONTHS - had they had a cogent message or a unified strategy, god knows what they could have ruined for the rank and file American.

Maybe its time for our own Occupy. Occupy2A? Except without all the crapping on public sidewalks and stuff. Sorry, had to inject *some* levity.

I agree with you, but the whole "falling back on what it says in the 2A" is a simplistic argument that has become the the PC "go to" argument because gun owners are conditioned to believe that we are doing something that is dark, evil and killy, so we can't just say "why" we really have our guns because it scares the sheep into thinking we are just crazed hillbillies! Not sure what the answer is, but I'm pretty sure that me telling my liberal neighbor that I own guns to kill bad guys if they try to harm my family, or to defend against a tyrannical government isn't going to sway their mindset in the direction I would like!

 

[JohnMarston]

i agree with everything in this thread thus far. people are poorly misinformed and the media does a bang up job at screwing up. i have taken numerous anti gunners out to my little range at home, and to a couple other places and showed them what it is all about. my favorite comment was "you mean to tell me not every ar-15 is automatic!?" my answer "uhh yeah, you thought they were all full auto? semi automatic means one projectile launched per trigger pull."

the guys reply after all of that "wow...i am really misinformed..." from an anti himself.

 

[Sir_Gawain]

Thats why I think as a community, we need to come together and organize in a manner not online. We need to come together and form a message and appoint the cogent among us to speak to those who would either seek to strip us of our rights or to those who remain on the fence.

Its going to take work, its going to piss a lot of people off inside our own community who are used to spouting NRA talking points. The problem is the NRA has remained silent to the point where we're pissing in the wind here. The ones who DO speak, say things at the wrong time (arm the teachers comes to mind). There has to be a decisive information campaign assembled and WE should take the lead.

There are a great many, as the OP stated, intelligent folks on this very board - politicians, instructors, cops, EMTs, attorneys and writers - ALL of us can make a difference but we need to agree on a message. Remember Occupy Wall Street? They were in the faces of the media for MONTHS - had they had a cogent message or a unified strategy, god knows what they could have ruined for the rank and file American.

Maybe its time for our own Occupy. Occupy2A? Except without all the crapping on public sidewalks and stuff. Sorry, had to inject *some* levity.

It is a great idea and one I would love to be apart of. I dont know where this thing is going (or how quick) but we need to be ready.

 

[AngelKing]

Nor do I - Im in the Auburn area - I dont have a club membership anywhere yet -- anyone want to get the ball rolling on a time/place/date?

I think a committee could be formed - one that encompasses the following:


- the overall message: a core group of people deciding what the hell it is we stand for
- message delivery - ie press contacts, releases and making it pallatable for the public
- strategies - organized events (take a member of the media shooting)
- legal - for all the right and obvious reasons

I have a background in Marketing and writing - kind of like any operation, its going to need many talents and organizational paradigms I know I haven't even considered.

It is a great idea and one I would love to be apart of. I dont know where this thing is going (or how quick) but we need to be ready.

 

[Sir_Gawain]

Nor do I - Im in the Auburn area - I dont have a club membership anywhere yet -- anyone want to get the ball rolling on a time/place/date?

I think a committee could be formed - one that encompasses the following:


- the overall message: a core group of people deciding what the hell it is we stand for
- message delivery - ie press contacts, releases and making it pallatable for the public
- strategies - organized events (take a member of the media shooting)
- legal - for all the right and obvious reasons

I have a background in Marketing and writing - kind of like any operation, its going to need many talents and organizational paradigms I know I haven't even considered.

Im not a member at any club yet (waiting to hear from the 200 sportsmans club this month to see if I made the cut). Hopefully some more people will chime in and post "In" to this.
I have a background in sales, and firefighting. While the firefighter part might not be a plus to this, I deal with influencing and altering the decision proses of people daily for profit

 

[oleironsideperks]

The fact is The Constitution GUARANTEES us the right. I don't want to debate with anyone about it. You can lead a horse to water......but. Also I prefer to just keep my mouth shut about it. The Govt. is in control and the more I think about it the more I believe if they really tried to round us all up and take our guns.....well let's just say there are more than a few of us that would...errrrr......resist.
Maybe it would help in the discussion (if you really need to have it) you could remind your opposition that the founing fathers included the second ammendment so we could defend ourselves from a tyrranical govt. I find that kind of talk usually makes them just shut right up.

 

[Sir_Gawain]

A great read from http://soldiersystems.net

Newtown CT – A Tragedy

On Friday a young man brutally murdered his mother in her Connecticut home and then inexplicably took firearms from the home he shared with her and proceeded to Sandy Hook Elementary School where she worked, systematically killing another 25 innocents. Among the fallen are 20 children. Very young children. My heart goes out to the survivors and the families of those taken. I cannot imagine the pain they are feeling.

I have kids, including a child almost as young as the victims. The significance of this event isn’t lost on me by any means. However, I am also a responsible gun owner. Seeing as how I am a reasonable guy and a responsible person, I’m not so foolish as to want to blame an inanimate object for this tragedy. Instead, I’ll blame the shooter. I know for some it’s a bold move, holding someone accountable for murder. But many people can’t grasp the horror of what happened so they want to blame something, anything for this tragedy. So, they blame guns. That same day in China, another madman used a knife to cut 22 school children. Sure, they weren’t killed and some hold this up as a testament to the success of total gun bans. But I’m appalled at this line of thinking. People act as if its ok that those children were disfigured. How about this? It’s not ok.

So far, we don’t know much about the Newtown shooter or his motives. There are reports that he suffered from mental illness. And, that’s an easy case to make considering that no sane person would murder 26 of his fellow man in cold blood. But we still don’t know much about his state of mind or what set him to this bloody task. But I’d say that the China slasher was a nutjob as well.
Newtown is a tragedy, but is this a national tragedy? In my eyes, no. But it does highlight some serious issues. First, you can’t legislate away evil or crazy. Second, we have got to have a serious debate about mental illness in this country. Third, “gun free zones” are unsafe ( see issue number one).

Bad people are going to do bad things no matter what the laws are. They are criminals and the law doesn’t mean much to them unless they know that the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. If the perpetrator is criminally insane then the ability to reason and consider the consequences of his actions is impaired. How can you legislate that?

One of the things I learned as a force protection officer in the Air Force was that hard targets deter threats. Schools in particular, and others where large groups of people congregate should be hard targets. Responsible, properly accredited citizens should be allowed to carry weapons and armed guards should be provided in areas that feel the need. Bad people, even crazy, bad people should look at a school and say to themselves, “too hard, I’ll fail.”

On Friday, the threat was mentally unstable but even in the recent past the threat has been terrorists who will use any form of violence at their means including items we consider mundane. As a Nation we have enjoyed a relatively safe society and have become complacent. We should all be vigilant to threats, no matter the source and should work together to harden our community’s critical infrastructure against threats. I would say that schools are critical infrastructure as they house our most precious resource; our children.

Unfortunately, the timing of this horrific event couldn’t be worse. Our Nation faces an impending fiscal crisis. This might sound harsh to some of you, but by focusing on the event in Newtown, we take the pressure off of the President and Congress to work out a deal and this is a mistake. They deserve every bit of our attention. Their inaction got us into this mess and further in action will affect us all, in many negative ways. The grieving process for the Newtown tragedy will go on for some time. On the other hand, as a Nation, we are on a train with no engineer or conductors and we are heading at breakneck speed for a cliff. No one is paying attention.

Finally, I’d like to leave everyone with a thought. This has already been politicized before anyone knows what the facts are. Draconian gun laws were enacted in the United Kingdom as well as in Australia after mass casualty shootings. Politicians took advantage of heated public emotionalism fanned by a media bent on “ratings” to pass laws that result in such silliness as the British government incarcerating an SAS hero who had an illegal handgun. Do not let that happen here. Engage your elected representatives. Join and support the NRA.

Firearms aren’t at fault here. In fact, just the opposite holds true. Firearms are one of our only true deterrents and responses to criminal insanity, no matter what form it takes. I ask my fellow countrymen to grieve for the victims but to not act rashly. Don’t treat the symptoms and think that you have cured the disease.

 

[el duderino]

What if some of us are hillbillies?

It's hard not to lash out when you're arguing with Idiots.

 

[Bob P]

This is the Brady wet dream scenario: someone murderd a bunch of white suburban kindergarteners and their pretty teachers with an EBR.

It doesn't matter what you say, what logic you try to inject until some time has passed for emotions to cool you're just playing into their hands trying to debate. Let some time pass. Let a week go by and refocus the debate on the shooter, not the gun. It's already starting to happen.

 

[Sir_Gawain]

What if some of us are hillbillies?

It's hard not to lash out when you're arguing with Idiots.

Then do yourself a favor, refrain from acting like an ass and calmly defeat them with intellectual fact (if you cant do that then dont engage in the conversation in the first place). The media will paint a picture and I will have no part of helping them destroy our image.

 

[richc]

Then do yourself a favor, refrain from acting like an ass and calmly defeat them with intellectual fact (if you cant do that then dont engage in the conversation in the first place). The media will paint a picture and I will have no part of helping them destroy our image.

Boy I'd love to see this group have a productive committee meeting. 28 posts and the name calling is alive and well.

IBTL...

 

[Sir_Gawain]

Boy I'd love to see this group have a productive committee meeting. 28 posts and the name calling is alive and well.

IBTL...

Im not calling anyone here a name, nor am I trying to insult anyone...I responded to someone who said its hard not to lash out against stupid (or idiots). When you lash out at someone, that person presumably will view you as an ass am I wrong?