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Tips on Applying for LTC-Important Info

LenS said:
CWOF is not the same as "charges dismissed". IANAL either, but I have been a police officer and recall my police chief telling me that I had two options in a criminal matter, arrest or citation.

My interpretation of "CWOF" is that you were charged, the magistrate heard the case and gave you a break instead of a conviction. My non-lawyer opinion is that you were a defendant in this case.

If you filed the paperwork and failed to disclose this, you may have some explaining to do and might well get denied for lying on the application.

I am always of the opinion that if in doubt, disclose with an explanation up front. After the fact, I'd write a letter with "further information" and an explanation of why you didn't disclose earlier (confusion, thought it wasn't applicable, etc.) . . . probably best to consult an attorney before submitting anything at this point.
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Well, I've already submitted, so too late for that.

I detailed on application the first time in front of a magistrate, left off the second time - I was admittedly a bit nervous - and only thought about possible bench warrant from 10+ years ago due to unpaid speeding ticket. So there may be 2 things they find I left off.

I left a message for my interview officer telling her I got some bad advice re: question 10 and maybe left off details that should go in. I don't want to appear as though I'm hiding anything so I asked her what my options were, i.e. re-applying, appending the application, etc. We'll see what she says.

At the end of the day I'd rather have everything out in the open and possibly get denied than have them come back to me saying "if only..."

Whatever. C'est la vie.
 
mark056 said:
CWOF has been a frequent topic. Most of the time you are required to admit that there are sufficient facts for a finding of guilty if the case were to go forward (not always). Sometimes probation is a condition of a CWOF and many LEO's unofficial view it as "guilty but got away with it."

It's not necessarily a good deal if you want a LTC. It hasn't stopped some from getting one, but has jammed up others. Also too the term itself is peculiar to MA. Other states have different terms for it, so it can cause problems when applying elsewhere.
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Yeah, I'm just either going to amend my application or write a letter detailing my youthful indiscretions. Whatever happens, happens. But at least I'll know that that - if I get denied - I laid all my cards on the table.
 
I was hoping one of you guys might be able to provide a little expertise. I received a speeding ticket in Delaware when I was 21 (making a spring break run down to FL going 90 the whole way) and never paid it. This is twenty years ago. I noticed that the any outstanding warrants in other states will prevent my class A request. I'm a MA resident. Am I likely screwed on this?
 
Had my licensing officer tell me he thought a CWOF counted as a conviction, which clearly goes against the definition Continued WITHOUT a finding. From my understanding, CWOF CAN be used in DUI cases, but that's it. Anyone else run into this issue, and how was it resolved?
 
I know that numerous PDs treat CWOF as if it was a conviction, with the belief that nobody takes a CWOF w/o ASF (admission of sufficient facts to result in a conviction). Therefore they use "unsuitability" due to the issue behind the CWOF as their reason for denial.
 
I understand a department determination of unsuitability, but its not a statutory disqualification as far as the state is concerned, correct?
 
A CWOF is not a conviction, and does not trigger a statutory denial even in a DUI case. The "conviction equivalent" CWOF issue relative to DUI is that a previous CWOF in a DUI case is treated as if it were a conviction for determination of "second offense" status in a future DUI case, plus, the insurance system treats it as if it were a conviction for merit rating purposes.

Some years ago an attorney wrote an opinion, that has been debunked by the experts, that a CWOF with "Admission To Sufficient Facts" (ASF) was the same as a conviction for the purposes of firearms licensing. Unfortunately, some PDs have copied and pasted this bad information, and actually believe it. And no, you can't avoid this by simply not "ASFing" as part of the deal, as courts generally require ASF to as a condition of granting a CWOF. This is done so if the terms of the CWOF are violated while it is pending, you have already admitted guilt in a manner that can be used against you.

The town of Stowe (Town of Stow, MA - Firearms FAQ) is an example of one licensing agency that has cut and pasted this legally incorrect information and appears to be mis-applying the law on this issue:

[SIZE=+0]6. WHAT IS A CONVICTION? [/SIZE]
​
[SIZE=+0]Pursuant to c.140§121, conviction is defined as a finding or verdict of guilt or a plea of guilty, whether or not final sentence is imposed. [/SIZE]​
[SIZE=+0]IMPORTANT EDITOR’S NOTE: A continuance without a finding (CWOF), although not a conviction in Massachusetts, will disqualify an applicant for a LTC or FID (5 years for FID’s), where it is based on an admission to sufficient facts. An admission to sufficient facts will be deemed a plea of guilt pursuant to c278§18. However, it is possible to have a case continued without an admission – which will not amount to a guilty plea or an incriminating admission. Therefore, police must search the file to see what type of disposition was rendered. [/SIZE]
​
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The town of Boxboro has the same set of FAQ (right down do this one being labeled #6), adding fuel to my theory that this bad information is used by several PDs due to cut and paste of one erroneous interpretation.

Attorney Jesse Cohen has an interesting article on this at: Massachusetts Firearms Laws | CWOFs & Massachusetts Firearms Licensing
 
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LenS said:
I know that numerous PDs treat CWOF as if it was a conviction, with the belief that nobody takes a CWOF w/o ASF (admission of sufficient facts to result in a conviction). Therefore they use "unsuitability" due to the issue behind the CWOF as their reason for denial.
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I ended up speaking to the LO and wrote a letter detailing the 2 instances of CWOF. Hopefully they don't find me unsuitable because of it but at the end of the day, if I get denied then I have only myself to blame.
 
LenS said:
I know that numerous PDs treat CWOF as if it was a conviction, with the belief that nobody takes a CWOF w/o ASF (admission of sufficient facts to result in a conviction). Therefore they use "unsuitability" due to the issue behind the CWOF as their reason for denial.
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There are some that incorrectly believe that a CWOF+ASF is legalluy the same as conviction for licensing purposes.
 
Just got back from my interview for the city of Haverhill, MA. The detective did not ask any sort of questions regarding my reasoning. For Haverhill, the demand was the certificate, application, and a $100 money order.

I will be issued a Class A unrestricted LTC.
 
A quick heads up for anyone applying in Medford. They have recently changed the application process again. They have switched from accepting applications by walk-in three days per week to now requiring you to call and schedule an appointment. I have no idea how long it takes to get an appointment (I applied as a walk-in in March) but I'm sure someone will soon find out.

Does anyone know what the current source of the delay is with the State Police for processing the AFIS check? Is this managerial incompetence with inadequate staffing levels, or more sinister with the Patrick admin using the AFIS check as a choke point to slow down the issuance of new LTCs in the state?

I spoke with my licensing officer today and he stated he is just receiving AFIS checks back for applicants submitted in January and hasn't seen anything back for Feb and March applicants. He also implied that the State Police were not processing AFIS checks during the Marathon Bombing investigation which has set things back further.
 
NewGuyRay said:
A quick heads up for anyone applying in Medford. They have recently changed the application process again. They have switched from accepting applications by walk-in three days per week to now requiring you to call and schedule an appointment. I have no idea how long it takes to get an appointment (I applied as a walk-in in March) but I'm sure someone will soon find out.

Does anyone know what the current source of the delay is with the State Police for processing the AFIS check? Is this managerial incompetence with inadequate staffing levels, or more sinister with the Patrick admin using the AFIS check as a choke point to slow down the issuance of new LTCs in the state?

I spoke with my licensing officer today and he stated he is just receiving AFIS checks back for applicants submitted in January and hasn't seen anything back for Feb and March applicants. He also implied that the State Police were not processing AFIS checks during the Marathon Bombing investigation which has set things back further.
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That's disgusting. Unreal. Gotta love chiefs like this [angry]
 
As a non-immigrant alien (NIA) applicant, I was told by the Mass FRB that they could not process my application because - as a NIA - I did not meet their definition of 'alien'.
That argument makes no sense to me. Do any of you have any knowledge of any NIA having received a Mass LTC (in the past, or in the present)?

Thanks in advance.
 
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Johnjt said:
Brand new member,just wanted to say thanks to all for the valuable info!

Will be applying for my LTC-A in Methuen very soon.
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just called to check on status- woman said its "pending review at PD board" and wouldnt elaborate. does this mean it hasnt left the PD yet? I interviewed in person on march 15th

(quoted for being in methuen also)
 
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Wendell said:
As a non-immigrant alien (NIA) applicant, I was told by the Mass FRB that they could not process my application because - as a NIA - I did not meet their definition of 'alien'.
That argument makes no sense to me. Do any of you have any knowledge of any NIA having received a Mass LTC (in the past, or in the present)?

Thanks in advance.
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The decision in Fletcher v. Haas that opened up the LTC process to MA resident non-US citizens was limited in scope to non-citizens holding a green card. Aliens without a green card may obtain a temporary non-resident LTC (if they reside outside MA), or an Alien FID (if they reside inside MA).
 
Im going to be moving to MA (Kingston) in the near future and I would like to take my Sig Sauer 1911 with me. Which kind of LTC will I need? What unforeseen reasons could I be denied for and how can I avoid them. How difficult is it to obtain a LTC for someone who has no legal convictions what so ever?
 




Moving To MA? New Resident Information, including license requirements

What kind of LTC will i need?

LTC-A
There are two types of licenses to carry. A Class A license to carry allows an individual to purchase, possess and carry large-capacity handguns, rifles, shotguns and feeding devices. It is the only permit that authorizes a holder to carry a concealed and loaded firearm. A Class B license to carry permits a holder to purchase, possess, and carry non-large capacity handguns and large-capacity rifles and shotguns.

Looks like Kingston is green
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...guide-gun-rights-your-massachusetts-town.html

Chart of reasons for denial
http://www.goal.org/masslawpages/masslawdenialinfo.html


New residents have 60 days to obtain proper licenses.


WELCOME TO HELL!!! [rofl]
Just kidding!!!
Go green on NES
& Use the search, tons of good info to pick up on.
 
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JHangen said:
Im going to be moving to MA (Kingston) in the near future and I would like to take my Sig Sauer 1911 with me. Which kind of LTC will I need? What unforeseen reasons could I be denied for and how can I avoid them. How difficult is it to obtain a LTC for someone who has no legal convictions what so ever?
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It is tough to forsee unforseen reasons but the fact you have no convictions doesn't mean you are in the clear. Driving records, incident reports, dog ate your homework, you name it, all potential reasons for a denial based on suitability or at least downgrading an ALP to a target/sport.
 
I recently moved to Stoneham. When I checked the on applying for a permit, the site said I should down load and application and send it the police station. Then they would contact me to come in, bring a letter why I feel I need a gun, fill out the application, get fingerprinted pay and wait.
It's been two weeks since I sent that in and haven't heard anything. ( I.know, welcome to Massachusetts) Should wait, or just go the station and request the packet?
 
I was reviewing this post in the thread:
I'm not sure the references are correct though:

* See Law Enforcement Guide to Firearms Law (8th Ed.), Glidden, Ron C., “§ 131 Notes” at Page 70 and “Frequently Asked Questions,” ¶¶ 2 through 5 at Page 218; see also the 6th Edition, Summary,” ¶ 2 - “Class B NOT Recommended,” ¶ 3 - “Restricted LTC’s,” and ¶ 5 - “All Lawful Purpose” at Page 69; “ See also the 4th Edition at pages 181-183.
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The 4th, 6th and 8th edition are referenced, but according to this link the 3rd edition was released this year:


Does anyone have this latest edition to verify these references? I'll buy a copy if I must.
 
mcb said:
I was reviewing this post in the thread:
I'm not sure the references are correct though:



The 4th, 6th and 8th edition are referenced, but according to this link the 3rd edition was released this year:


Does anyone have this latest edition to verify these references? I'll buy a copy if I must.
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I think that Ron is recycling his edition numbers. It is indeed strange.

I sold his 2nd and 4th editions for him but that was many years ago (~1999 and 2001). I have his 23rd edition here that I got with his seminar in 2014.

So I can't explain the new numbering scheme!
 
Len-2A Training said:
I think that Ron is recycling his edition numbers. It is indeed strange.

I sold his 2nd and 4th editions for him but that was many years ago (~1999 and 2001). I have his 23rd edition here that I got with his seminar in 2014.

So I can't explain the new numbering scheme!
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Thanks Len, strange stuff! MA Trial Court library lists the 21st edition (2013) ... I'm guessing that the MPI webpage is incorrect.
 

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