Time to Arm Airline Passengers?

[pjorg]

This idea's been tossed around on this forum a few times before, but this gentleman's put some serious thought into it. He seems to stop short of suggesting that people be allowed to carry firearms, but still, it's a reasonably well thought out system:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/11/time_to_arm_airline_passengers.html

Qualifications can be set as to age, state of health, physical capabilities, absence of a criminal record, provision of character references, education level, and pertinent background, such as experience in law enforcement, the military, martial arts, or other applicable areas. Volunteers could agree to place themselves under the command of flight crews and to accept any seat they are asked to occupy, in understanding that there could be situations in which the crew would deem it a proper precaution to have such a volunteer or volunteers seated in close proximity to a possible threat. They could also agree to stay alert for the duration of the flight.

 

[TheRoland]

I think organizing this, or asking for "volunteer sky marshals" is more of a hassle than it's really worth, and frankly, is just not necessary.

There's no need to complicate is so much. Just honor carry permits, either of the originating or destination state or both.

 

[Maxpower]

Why can't we cut the tsa in half and put an armed police officer on every flight?

 

[Kurtz]

Why can't we cut the tsa in half and put an armed police officer on every flight?

If the cop is plain clothes it might work.

 

[bullseye]

Doesn't matter if you have an army of armed travelers if one guy has a stick of dynamite up his butt. TSA still has to come up with a better solution to molesting women with implants and raping 3-5 year old children.

 

[Maxpower]

Why plain clothes?

 

[FalArAk]

It's all bullshit..The only way to keep passengers safe is through profiling.

But,the pussification of this once great nation will keep what needs to get done from being done.

You can arm everybody to the teeth,but it won't matter once 8oz of C4 gets detonated from some Muslims ass.

Until the .gov institutes profiling,they are just going to keep pushing us further and further until we have to submit to security screening for any type of public interaction..malls,busses,schools..everything.

The Muslims are laughing their asses off at us.

No matter what happens in A-stan and Iraq,the Muslims have beat us,they have won.

Look at what we are submitting ourselves too under the guise of safety.Children being frisked,old ladies,active duty soldiers..it's a gigantic joke and make no mistake,the Muslims are loving every single f'n minute of us living like scared little sheep looking up to big daddy .gov to save us.

 

[pjorg]

You can arm everybody to the teeth,but it won't matter once 8oz of C4 gets detonated from some Muslims ass.

As you correctly point out elsewhere in your post, that's something that has to be combatted much earlier in the timeline. If we're stopping them at the airport with C4, it's too late. We've just been lucky that the guys that have tried this so far haven't had all their I's dotted and T's crossed, and passengers/crew took action.

I'm more concerned with these guys commandeering more airliners and pointing them at a much larger crowd of people. Frankly, enabling passengers to effectively resist another such attack is low-hanging fruit here and should practically be a no-brainer.

We should be placing emphasis on avoiding another day of 3,000 deaths rather than a futile attempt to prevent any attack ever again.

 

[FalArAk]

Wait until a Muslim blows himself up in a TSA line,what then ?

Or when a Muslim blows himself up at the mall on a Black Friday,what then ?

Or a church on Easter,what then ?

This so-called war against "radical" Islam is a wet dream for all big central .gov type politicians and citizens alike.

When will the American people wake up and realize that by consenting to these searches,we are no longer free and the America that our founders believed in and created,no longer exist ?

Never..because a large group of people are more than willing to sacrifice liberty for a false sense of security.

This is something that Liberals AND Conservatives should agree upon.

 

[Knob Creek]

This was proposed years ago but was never enacted:

 

[bullseye]

Wait until a Muslim blows himself up in a TSA line,what then ?

Or when a Muslim blows himself up at the mall on a Black Friday,what then ?

Or a church on Easter,what then ?

This so-called war against "radical" Islam is a wet dream for all big central .gov type politicians and citizens alike.

When will the American people wake up and realize that by consenting to these searches,we are no longer free and the America that our founders believed in and created,no longer exist ?

Never..because a large group of people are more than willing to sacrifice liberty for a false sense of security.

This is something that Liberals AND Conservatives should agree upon.

It is time that the US Government admits to what this really is, a Christian- Muslim war. The Israeli's have been engaged for decades and are leaps and bounds ahead of our rocket scientists when it comes to security. Who the hell are we going to insult and whose ego's are going to be bruised, Muslims, who gives a shit. They don't give a flying rat's ass about any American, it's time to wake the masses and let them know they are hated by some 3-5 billion Muslims world wide, Profile, Profile, Profile and when you catch them, boil em in pig juice.

 

[Emoto]

I've never understood why the second Amendment is not valid in US airspace.

 

[TheRoland]

You can arm everybody to the teeth,but it won't matter once 8oz of C4 gets detonated from some Muslims ass.

While I don't want to be on a plane that gets blown up, this isn't really the problem the TSA is supposed to fix. They arn't just screening for bombs.

 

[Maxpower]

Do people who work in the airport stores get screened when they clock in everyday?

 

[Mustang5L5]

Politics aside....would you want to be on an airplane with untrained (in terms of airplane combat) civilians possibly opening fire? There are a lot of civilians tightly packed in a small space with the potential of being hit. Plus, punch a bullet through the skin in a weak place and catestrophic depressurization could end a few lives...or bring down the rest of the plane.

It's a huge risk to discharge a firearm on a crowded plane. The alternative is not much better though. Don't know what to tell you.

Has an air Marshall ever discharged a firearm in the air on a crowded plane?

 

[lupis42]

Why can't we cut the tsa agents in half and put an armed police officer on every flight?

Just saying.

 

[Emoto]

Politics aside....would you want to be on an airplane with untrained (in terms of airplane combat) civilians possibly opening fire? There are a lot of civilians tightly packed in a small space with the potential of being hit. Plus, punch a bullet through the skin in a weak place and catestrophic depressurization could end a few lives...or bring down the rest of the plane.

It's a huge risk to discharge a firearm on a crowded plane. The alternative is not much better though. Don't know what to tell you.

Has an air Marshall ever discharged a firearm in the air on a crowded plane?

It is almost the same risk as any public place. Also, the big planes can stand holes in the skin much better than one would think.

 

[TheRoland]

Politics aside....would you want to be on an airplane with untrained (in terms of airplane combat) civilians possibly opening fire?

Sure. Civilians who carry guns tend to be pretty trustworthy, and the people who I know that carry are pretty good.

There are a lot of civilians tightly packed in a small space with the potential of being hit.

I agree. This sucks. Require hollowpoints.

Plus, punch a bullet through the skin in a weak place and catestrophic depressurization could end a few lives...or bring down the rest of the plane.

Myth, and if we're into the shooting, we're already in trouble.

It's a huge risk to discharge a firearm on a crowded plane. The alternative is not much better though. Don't know what to tell you.

Agree. That said, if there was an airline which did basic screening for bombs, and that's it, I'd fly it 100% of the time.

 

[lupis42]

When will the American people wake up and realize that by consenting to these searches,we are no longer free and the America that our founders believed in and created,no longer exist ?

Never..because a large group of people are more than willing to sacrifice liberty for a false sense of security.

This is something that Liberals AND Conservatives should agree upon.

Today, it's Muslims. Tomorrow, it might be the Irish again, or the Chinese, or the Dutch. No matter how hard you search, and who you profile, you'll never be safe. All you'll be is less free.

 

[TheRoland]

Today, it's Muslims. Tomorrow, it might be the Irish again, or the Chinese, or the Dutch. No matter how hard you search, and who you profile, you'll never be safe. All you'll be is less free.

This. When security experts say "use profiling!" they don't mean the kind of profiling that you can summarize in an angry or pithy forum post.

 

[ochmude]

Wait until a Muslim blows himself up in a TSA line,what then ?

Or when a Muslim blows himself up at the mall on a Black Friday,what then ?

Or a church on Easter,what then ?

This so-called war against "radical" Islam is a wet dream for all big central .gov type politicians and citizens alike.

When will the American people wake up and realize that by consenting to these searches,we are no longer free and the America that our founders believed in and created,no longer exist ?

Never..because a large group of people are more than willing to sacrifice liberty for a false sense of security.

This is something that Liberals AND Conservatives should agree upon.

Exactly. I really don't get the obsession with aircraft in flight. Yes, that was the method of attack on 9/11, but now it seems like people think that you can make the ENTIRE country safe by preventing someone from getting a weapon or explosive onto a commercial airliner. What's stopping someone from filling a cargo van with explosives and detonating it on the lower deck of the GW Bridge during rush hour one day?

 

[Maxpower]

Just saying.

Im talking about the whole administration. The stuff that happens at the airports is a dog and pony show. Why not bring some of the military back from overseas and have them protect the homeland over here, where we are being told the big threats are. On the planes.

 

[lupis42]

Im talking about the whole administration. The stuff that happens at the airports is a dog and pony show. Why not bring some of the military back from overseas and have them protect the homeland over here, where we are being told the big threats are. On the planes.

The reason they don't bring our military back is because our military is busy bringing freedom to foreigners, and there isn't any real threat that can be approached by anything other than serious, dedicated intelligence work.

As for the TSA, anyone willing to wear that uniform is a thug. They may believe that they're making people safer, but good intentions do not excuse heinous actions.

 

[mikem317]

The only real way to keep passengers safe is to remove the government from this purpose. That ostensibly means, abolishing the TSA if not the entire Department of Fatherland Security apparatus.

I've been saying all along that the airlines themselves would do a far better job of protecting their customers than the government.

Hell, if Brinks (private company) can transport money and coin, then I'm sure entrepreneurs will be able to provide similar services for assisting the safe passage of people.

 

[mikem317]

Exactly. I really don't get the obsession with aircraft in flight. Yes, that was the method of attack on 9/11, but now it seems like people think that you can make the ENTIRE country safe by preventing someone from getting a weapon or explosive onto a commercial airliner. What's stopping someone from filling a cargo van with explosives and detonating it on the lower deck of the GW Bridge during rush hour one day?

I was talking about this with a coworker today. I believe that if the perceived costs of trying to get an explosive device on board an aircraft via a "passenger" than they'll try to do it through the ground maintenance or flight crew. Or, they'll just detonate a weapon while everyone is in queue at a busy airport, WAITING in the security queue.

 

[Jose]

Plus, punch a bullet through the skin in a weak place and catestrophic depressurization could end a few lives...or bring down the rest of the plane.

You don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Jose]

How come profiling works for Israelis?

 

[Jose]

We will never get attacked again via hijacked airliners.

Al Quaeda already threw that page off their book. It's on to bigger and better things.

My bet is a large public gathering during a festive occasion.

Don't forget to pack a six shooter with an empty chamber under the hammer, since broccoli weirdo said that's all you'll ever need and you are a crazy, crazy man for wanting more ammo than that.

 

[ochmude]

You don't know what you are talking about.

It's in movies Jose...MOVIES. You gonna tell me they're wrong?

 

[Jose]

It's in movies Jose...MOVIES. You gonna tell me they're wrong?

Dude, sorry. You're right. It's in the MOVIES!!!!

Which Airplane was that on again?