Thoughts on PPU .44 Mag?

[Redbeard22]

I did a search and didnt see a dedicated thread, so forgive me if there is one.

This weekend I did some shooting with a few .44 revolvers and started to run into some issues with extracting cases. I always use American Eagle when shooting factory instead of hand loads, and have never had any issues.

This time I was using some PPU 240 Grain factory stuff and after a few cylinders, started running into issues extracting cases. Sometimes just 1 or 2 were getting stuck but needed to be whacked out with a screwdriver. My first thought was that maybe the cylinders were a little dirty, but after running a cylinder or two through 2 other different revolvers, the same issue was occurring. We stopped shooting all together when my buddy caught a small piece of something on the cheek. Also, the case of that round had expanded enough so that it backed out of the cylinder just enough from keeping it from spinning into battery on the next round. At this point we put away the PPU and checked all guns and saw no physical or immediate sign of damage or concern, all locked up properly and cycled properly. Also, looked for overpressure signs on the ammo besides the extraction issues, but in my opinion the primers on the PPU did not look any more flat or distorted than the American Eagle. The concerning part what what seemed to be a possible piece of copper jacket that came back our way.

After checking through everything, we shot more American Eagle and some HP38 handloads without ANY issues whatsover.

I know PPU tends to be on the hot side, but I've shot tons of PPU ammo of other calibers and never had this kind of experience. Has anyone else had similar issues? Definitely shelving this stuff for the time being.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

the only good thing is that they make some rare calibers, but if you're going for an imported ammo, S&B is much better

I've shot a fair amount of PPU + S&B back when I was into x54r and this is the main reason to shoot PPU - if you have an obsolete, foreign caliber and there's no other viable option or you want reloadable brass.

The raison d'etre of .44 Magnum is to roll your own. It's a cartridge for reloaders, by reloaders, of reloaders.

 

[meh]

We stopped shooting all together when my buddy caught a small piece of something on the cheek. [snip] The concerning part what what seemed to be a possible piece of copper jacket that came back our way.
[snip]
Has anyone else had similar issues? Definitely shelving this stuff for the time being.

I've shot several boxes of 240 gr PPU JHP in 44 magnum. Yeah, they were very hot. Before I shot those, I think 44 magnum Leverevolution was the hottest factory 44 magnum I'd come across. Ironically, it was the first 44 magnum I'd ever shot out of a model 629. Most of what I bought, however, I would have shot out of a lever gun. Haven't bought factory 44 magnum in a long time. I don't usually go in for maximum loads because the accuracy peaks before the loads get to the pressure limit. The groups widen and the standard deviations in velocities increase.

As for the bit on the cheek, I'm not sure that means anything. The sensation of a prick on the cheek when shooting a revolver is usually unburned powder that slips out of the flash gap (I assume) and bounces off the frame back at the opposite cheek of the sighting eye. Seems to happen a lot more with some powders and not others, and in some guns and not others. I very rarely feel anything with H110/W296 loads, for example, but with Shooters World Heavy Pistol, I'd feel it every few shots when shooting one of my Smiths. Doesn't happen so much with my Ruger single actions. Different angles, I guess.

 

[Whiskeywon]

I've shot a fair amount of PPU + S&B back when I was into x54r and this is the main reason to shoot PPU - if you have an obsolete, foreign caliber and there's no other viable option or you want reloadable brass.

The raison d'etre of .44 Magnum is to roll your own. It's a cartridge for reloaders, by reloaders, of reloaders.

This. Very much. I shoot S&B for basically all my milsurps except in the calibers that they don’t make. Which for leads me to either fiocci or PPU for the harder to find like 9mm steyr or 6.5 Japanese. Which even that I found Steinel who makes a great round for that.
I definitely agree that I found .357 and .44 from PPU to run dirty, but no dirtier than say green/white Remington UMC. But as said it’s definitely a make your own caliber for pricing.

 

[grey]

Mic the diameter of the cases. Do they go in tight too or only extraction? Maybe a spritze of dry lube before firing

 

[Stape]

Sticking cases in a revolver can be a sign of overpressure.

 

[Redbeard22]

The cases go in just fine, the issue is with extraction. And not every case has the issue after being fired. So it seems to have poor consistency if some are that much hotter than others. Sounds like I'll hold on to this until I wind up with something beefier the to shoot it out of that I know can take it. Or just pull the bullets and load something else.

I reload .44, but sometimes I buy new factory stuff so I can keep my brass stock at a happy level.

 

[Dadstoys]

MEH may be right on the money with the powder spraying .
I would take a close look for any signs of lead shaving at the edge of the forcing cone as well.

 

[Redbeard22]

As for the bit on the cheek, I'm not sure that means anything. The sensation of a prick on the cheek when shooting a revolver is usually unburned powder that slips out of the flash gap (I assume) and bounces off the frame back at the opposite cheek of the sighting eye. Seems to happen a lot more with some powders and not others, and in some guns and not others.

We assumed it was more than just power as whatever hit broke skin. Not bad or anything, but enough for a spec or blood to show.

Either way, thanks everyone for the input. I'll be shelving the PPU and will stick to to my American Eagle for factory ammo when it comes to .44 mag.

 

[Redbeard22]

Also no sign whatsoever of any trouble at the forcing cone or even down the barrel like fouling or lead on one side.

 

[grey]

I have a 629 classic 8-3/8" that has very difficult extraction. I have to really smack the extractor with my palm to the point where it hurts. No other 629 or 29 I've shot has this issue. Either way, try umc 180 gr jsp which is the hottest factory rounds I've found short of buffalo bore or Underwood. If that doesnt cause the same problems, ditch the ppu

 

[meh]

I reload .44, but sometimes I buy new factory stuff so I can keep my brass stock at a happy level.

I once bought a case of PMC 44 special and couldn't find a use for it because it had piss poor accuracy out of all my 44's owing, as far as I could tell, from imprecise charges, or a terribly inconsistent powder. Can't remember how many rounds I had left, but one day I got industrious and pulled all the bullets, popped out the primers, used the powder for fertilizer, sold the brass, and reloaded the bullets and primers in my own 44 magnum cases with new powder. Crazy, I know, but so much easier in your case. Just pop the bullets out, leave the primers in, resize without the decapping pin, flare, and then charge and re-seat with your chosen powder charge. OK, maybe that's still a little crazy, but it will work.

 

[DW357]

I reload .44, but sometimes I buy new factory stuff so I can keep my brass stock at a happy level.

I reload 44 but bought a bunch of PPU when I first bought a 44 mag revolver. Just a warning with PPU 44 mag brass. I was unable to reload the cases as the casewalls seem to be rather thin. After resizing I could place a bullet in the case. After expanding the casemouths I could push it in even further. There was essentially no tension to keep the bullet in the case.
Measure the casewalls with a caliper and compare to American Eagle brass.
The thin casewalls might explain the sticky extraction? Not sure.

 

[Redbeard22]

Good point about thin case walls. That could be a cause for increased expansion. I'll have to measure with some calipers when I get home.

I'm by no means an expert when it comes to reloading. .44 is the first caliber I've been learning on, and I've made a few hundred rounds so far without issue. Taking it slow, triple checking measurements, and trying to soak up all the knowledge I can. I plan to start reloading 7.5x55 soon as well and have a lot of PPU brass. Hopefully those aren't thin walled either.

 

[DW357]

Good point about thin case walls. That could be a cause for increased expansion. I'll have to measure with some calipers when I get home.

I'm by no means an expert when it comes to reloading. .44 is the first caliber I've been learning on, and I've made a few hundred rounds so far without issue. Taking it slow, triple checking measurements, and trying to soak up all the knowledge I can. I plan to start reloading 7.5x55 soon as well and have a lot of PPU brass. Hopefully those aren't thin walled either.

I also reload 7.5 swiss using PPU brass and it's very good brass - no issues. I use their brass in 9mm, 30 carbine, 30-06, 223/556, and 7.62x25 with no issues. I've only had problems with their 357 mag and 44 mag brass.

 

[meh]

FWIW, I reload PPU 44 magnum brass with 240 grain .430" (Missouri Bullet and Hornady XTP) and .431" diameter (Zero JSP) bullets without issues.

 

[DW357]

FWIW, I reload PPU 44 magnum brass with 240 grain .430" (Missouri Bullet and Hornady XTP) and .431" diameter (Zero JSP) bullets without issues.

Interesting. Maybe I just got a bad batch of brass? Though I never tried the Zeros, just Montana Gold and XTPs.

 

[meh]

Could also be a difference between our resizing dies. I might have observed it to be on the thin side. I'm having trouble remembering. BTW, what was the issue you had with PPU .357M brass?

 

[moojpg2]

I've shot PPU before in .357 and .44, didn't have a problem with it. I will say they are loaded pretty hot, but I run 2 Ruger Super Blackhawks and a GP100 so they ate it up without issue.

 

[Redbeard22]

Maybe I'll have to use the super hot PPU sitting in the safe now collecting dust as an excuse to buy a Super Redhawk.

 

[marleythefish]

I reload very hot .44 mag, i dont have extraction issues, i suspect thin brass

 

[DW357]

Could also be a difference between our resizing dies. I might have observed it to be on the thin side. I'm having trouble remembering. BTW, what was the issue you had with PPU .357M brass?

I suppose it could be the dies? I use Hornady and Lee dies.

I had the same issue with PPU 357 mag brass as I did with their 44 mag brass. I could push the bullets into the case after resizing.

 

[DW357]

an excuse to buy a Super Redhawk.

That's what I did a few years ago. I've since sold it and got a Dan Wesson 44 but I didn't really have any complaints about the Super Redhawk aside from the looks.

 

[DW357]

I reload very hot .44 mag, i dont have extraction issues, i suspect thin brass

We got to meet up at the club one of these days with our big bore revolvers.

 

[meh]

I suppose it could be the dies? I use Hornady and Lee dies.

I had the same issue with PPU 357 mag brass as I did with their 44 mag brass. I could push the bullets into the case after resizing.

Interesting. I use Hornady dies, generally. I also have a RCBS cowboy dies for 357M, but I rarely use the cowboy resizing die, just the flaring die. I'll have to pay more attention with the PPU .357M cases when I reload those. I don't remember anything like that happening with them. It's really only the Zero 125 grain JHPC (like Hornady HAP) bullets that I have ever had to worry about, and that's because they are undersized. I have some CBC .357M that are thin enough that they barely do the job with these bullets. But my only complaint with the PPU .357M brass is that it is on the short side, and it seems more likely to give me a hitch when going through the FCD, which suggests it might be too thick rather than too thin. At this point I'm just going to say PPU brass varies. Whether it varies by vintage or lot, I have no idea.

 

[DW357]

Interesting. I use Hornady dies, generally. I also have a RCBS cowboy dies for 357M, but I rarely use the cowboy resizing die, just the flaring die. I'll have to pay more attention with the PPU .357M cases when I reload those. I don't remember anything like that happening with them. It's really only the Zero 125 grain JHPC (like Hornady HAP) bullets that I have ever had to worry about, and that's because they are undersized. I have some CBC .357M that are thin enough that they barely do the job with these bullets. But my only complaint with the PPU .357M brass is that it is on the short side, and it seems more likely to give me a hitch when going through the FCD, which suggests it might be too thick rather than too thin. At this point I'm just going to say PPU brass varies. Whether it varies by vintage or lot, I have no idea.

Didn't realize the conical Zeros were undersized. Then again I've never used those before. How badly are they undersized?

That's crazy that the CBC 357 is thin. Their 9mm brass is too THICK. I scrap all CBC 9mm brass immediately.

Sure sounds like both PPU and CBC brass varies for whatever reason.

 

[meh]

Didn't realize the conical Zeros were undersized. Then again I've never used those before. How badly are they undersized?

They're always between 0.356" and 0.357". Call it 0.3565". Like I've said before, I suspect the good folks at Zero are providing the value-added service of pressing a cannelure into 125gr Hornady HAP bullets which are nominally 0.356" in diameter. I've thought about buying a machine myself, and it seems that Kevin Knight's tool is head and shoulders above the rest, but if all I want to do is press cannelures into 9mm and 45 ACP bullets, I probably wouldn't ever break even, so as far as I'm concerned, the Zero JHPC's are a great product offered at a good price no matter how they're made.

 

[T-Unit]

PPU is generally range ammo, but they have recently introduced a defense ammo called PPU Defense Ammo Line. I think they're aware of how poor their old JHP ammo was in not expanding and they came up with new bullet designs that actually work or they've just dressed up the box and are using the same old bullets that don't work.

I can't tell because there's no videos or reviews anywhere of their new defense ammo, but for .44 Mag PPU it's range ammo. If you want a cheap .44 ammo that expands, stick with Remington or Federal.

 

[92G]

I run PPU 240 gr SP through my 629 6 inch with no issues. accuracy is excellent. 99% of the time accuracy issues with 44 mag are due to shooter. as noted above if the cases are getting stuck in the cylinder i would also be concerned about over-pressured.

 

[Caveman]

Interesting. Glad I’m not the only one. I got some PPU 240 a couple months ago and on the first round it jammed up the cylinder so I couldn’t open it up. And the case was jammed in that I had to hammer it out. Pulled 1 more round to see if it was a one off but that case got stuck as well.

That said. The PPU 300gr flat point semi jacketed is insanely accurate out of my 629. No issues with those. I just stay away from the 240’s.