thoughts on Glock mods

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what are people's thoughts on aftermarket modifications made to the glocks? Items such as the lighter trigger pull, titanium striker, mag release extension, etc.

Any others that people recommend or don't recommend?
 
Is it a game gun or a carry gun? Mag release extension is a bad idea on a carry gun -- too easy to get accidentally pressed. I suspect that an extended mag release is also not allowed in IDPA stock service pistol.

I have a Glock 34 with the factory extended mag release button, and frankly I don't like it. I use a thumb-forward grip and the extension presses into my support hand.

Titanium striker? What's the point?
 
As a competition gun... I have a G34 as well. And i actually love the extended controls that it comes with from the factory. They help immensely (for me, anyway).

I've replaced the front sight with a Dawson Fiber Optic sight. And have done a trigger job.

For my carry glocks, G26 and G19... all are bone stock. You start to introduce the potential for unreliability/malfunctions when you mess with the stock setup. ie: extended mag release is easier to engage accidentally during the course of your day causing mag to drop when drawing gun. Changing barrels or springs/guide rods could cause failures to feed, etc.

For competition.... do whatever you feel you need/want to make yourself more competitive.

For carry... stick to stock.

[smile]

I suspect that an extended mag release is also not allowed in IDPA stock service pistol.

It is if the gun comes from the manufacturer with it. ie: the Glock 34 with extended mag release and extended slide stop, and lightened slide are all okay because that's how the gun comes straight from Glock.
 
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it's a carry gun - glock 29 10mm.

these are the two parts I ordered;

(1) http://glockstore.com/pgroup_descrip/336_Featured+Items/22_3.5+Pound+Connector/?return=?

(2) http://glockstore.com/pgroup_descri...index&category_id=7&_Parts+&+Accessories/

The only other thing I'm *thinking* of adding is the extended slide release. For some reason, the slide release sits very close to the frame and is hard to push down with my right hand only...

thoughts? could always return one or both and stay stock...
 
The only other thing I'm *thinking* of adding is the extended slide release. For some reason, the slide release sits very close to the frame and is hard to push down with my right hand only...

Why would you be pushing down on the slide stop? It's a slide stop not a slide release!
 
And i actually love the extended controls that it comes with from the factory. They help immensely (for me, anyway).

I like the extended slide stop, but not the mag release. Our differing experiences on the mag release probably comes down to different hand size and/or different grips.

It is if the gun comes from the manufacturer with it. ie: the Glock 34 with extended mag release and extended slide stop, and lightened slide are all okay because that's how the gun comes straight from Glock.
Agreed. But since he's talking about adding an extended mag release, I assume he has a Glock model that didn't have one from the factory (e.g., he's got a Glock 17 or 22, etc.), and therefore adding one is verboten in SSP.
 
I carried a G29 until I got a PPS. The only mods I made were the extended take-down lever, KKM Precision barrel, and 3.5# trigger connector.

I don't think I've ever even used the slide stop as a slide release lever.
 
Why would you be pushing down on the slide stop? It's a slide stop not a slide release!
notagain.jpg


Nothing bad will happen to your Glock by using the slide release for what it was designed for.

There are those who recommend slingshotting for "tactical" reasons, and those who disagree.
 
Why would you be pushing down on the slide stop? It's a slide stop not a slide release!

...the action is open, mag inserted, push down on slide stop and slide goes forward, chambering a round. What am I missing? I am missing the nature of this debate.

Also, does a 3.5lb trigger pull really make a material difference in safety for a carry Glock (it certainly is meaningless if you don;t carry with a round in the camber).
 
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what are people's thoughts on aftermarket modifications made to the glocks? Items such as the lighter trigger pull, titanium striker, mag release extension, etc.

Any others that people recommend or don't recommend?

Titanium striker? As its already been said, what's the point. Keep any carry gun trigger pull to around five pounds, and about three pounds for a game gun. Dawson fiber optic sights is a good add-on too. My game gun G35 add-ons: Wolf Ported Barrel, Ghost Rocket connector, JP red dot sight, Wolf metal guide rod and wolf recoil reduction system, and ICE mag well. Sold the top G35. but still have my game gun.

G35.jpg
 
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...the action is open, mag inserted, push down on slide stop and slide goes forward, chambering a round. What am I missing? I am missing the nature of this debate.

There are those who assert that the Glock slide stop should never be pushed down to release the slide, but instead the slide should be released by pulling back on the slide and releasing it. My Glock manuals state that you can release the slide by either pulling back on the slide or depressing the slide stop.

Then there is the "gross motor skills" argument. Some instructors assert that pulling the slide back is a gross motor skill that you are less likely to screw up under pressure. They assert that under pressure you will lose your dexterity for fine muscle skills and thus be more likely to miss the slide stop. When I took classes at Sig Sauer Academy, this is what they taught. I've seen people screw up retracting the slide. I have never seen any documentation of this assertion that you are less likely to screw up retracting the slide. They just assert it as fact. In IDPA matches under a fair bit of stress (but clearly not as much stress as a gunfight), I've never missed the slide stop. YMMV.

Other instructors say that using the slide stop is 1/2 second faster during an emergency reload and can be done reliably with training. When I took LFI-1, Ayoob taught both methods, told students to try both and choose one, and said that he uses the slide stop. My experience is that using the slide stop is significantly faster.

I use the slide stop. Of course, the 1911 slide stop is large and well placed. The standard Glock slide stop is well placed but small. If I was going to carry a Glock with the standard slide stop, I might retract the slide instead, simply because the Glock slide stop is smaller and easier to miss.

Take your pick -- push down on the slide stop or retract the slide -- and train that way. Either will work. Both schools of thought have reasonable arguments for why their method is better. Pick one.
 
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M1911 obviously disagrees, but every trainer I've trained with is a proponent of the slingshot method.
When I took LFI-1, Ayoob was a proponent of the slide stop. When I took Tactical Handgun 101, Randy Cain taught the overhand method, but also told us that he uses the slide stop.

There are two valid schools of thought on this, and you shouldn't assert that there is only one.
 
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There are two valid schools of thought on this, and you shouldn't assert that there is only one.

We agree that there are two schools of thought, how "valid" they are is up for debate. [wink] The way I see it is it's a simple gross motion. It's the same motion as the rack portion of a tap and rack. One less thing to learn and practice. It's also a good way to do it on most guns. I know of one person who wore out the slide stop on a MkIII within the first few weeks of ownership. BTW: Jim Conway (& all of NEShooters), Rob Pincus, David Kenik, my NRA course instructor all taught slingshot.
 
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We agree that there are two schools of thought, how "valid" they are is up for debate. [wink]
Oh give me a @!#$!@ break!
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The way I see it is it's a simple gross motion.

What's a simple gross motion? What makes pushing down the slide stop not a simple gross motion? What evidence do you have that there is some great difference between the two? What evidence do you have that people are more likely to mess up retracting the slide than pushing down on the slide stop? You expect that if you are in a gunfight you will have the fine motor control to properly press the trigger, correct? But you won't have the motor control to push down on the slide stop? Why?

The proponents of the pull-back-the-slide school make this "gross motion" assertion without ever backing it up.

If you are doing an emergency reload, you are in an emergency, right? If you are in an emergency, why do you want to take 1/4 to 1/2 second longer to reload?

I'm an NRA instructor. I've had 200+ hours of training. Ayoob taught both, recommended slide stop. Sig taught overhand but didn't care which you used. Randy taught overhand, but did slide stop and didn't care which you used. Gunsite teaches overhand and does care which you use.

There are a lot of things that I disagree with Ayoob about. But in this case, he taught both methods, discussed the pros and cons of each, explained his choice, and let his students make up their own minds. He did the same with stances -- he taught Weaver, Chapman, and Iso, and let the students make up their own minds. I respect that a great deal more than instructors who assert that there is only one right way to do things. That simply isn't true. There are always many ways to skin a cat, each with advantages and disadvantages.

Both ways can work. Both ways can be screwed up. Asserting otherwise is simply wrong.
 
Oh give me a @!#$!@ break!
nutkick.gif
You know reading through the archives and you obviously have a real thorn in your side about this topic.

What's a simple gross motion? What makes pushing down the slide stop not a simple gross motion?
Well I think the engineer in me would make the distinction based on mass participation. Of course the distinction between gross and fine is relative. Grabbing the slide you hand and forearm are moving. Pushing the slide release your thumb is moving. There is a large difference in the mass participation.

You expect that if you are in a gunfight you will have the fine motor control to properly press the trigger, correct? But you won't have the motor control to push down on the slide stop? Why?
You do have a point about the trigger press, my only argument is muscle memory. Of course that would be the same argument you'd make for slide release. My only counter is that you do the trigger press at least 10-20x more often.

If you are doing an emergency reload, you are in an emergency, right? If you are in an emergency, why do you want to take 1/4 to 1/2 second longer to reload?
That's assuming that you can do it reliably. You say you can, I'm not so sure I can.

I'm an NRA instructor. I've had 200+ hours of training. Ayoob taught both, recommended slide stop. Sig taught overhand but didn't care which you used. Randy taught overhand, but did slide stop and didn't care which you used. Gunsite teaches overhand and does care which you use.

There are a lot of things that I disagree with Ayoob about. But in this case, he taught both methods, discussed the pros and cons of each, explained his choice, and let his students make up their own minds. He did the same with stances -- he taught Weaver, Chapman, and Iso, and let the students make up their own minds. I respect that a great deal more than instructors who assert that there is only one right way to do things. That simply isn't true. There are always many ways to skin a cat, each with advantages and disadvantages.
I think the reason that many trainers only show one is to not confuse students who are already trying to absorb a lot of material. Of course there are many ways to accomplish the same goal. The idea is to pick a reliable and efficient way to do it. Personally I'd like to learn one way that works in as many situations as possible and is as reliable as possible. Rob Pincus is a big proponent of efficiency. In the short class I took at the NEShooters summit he showed some crazy draw technique to prove a point. You could come up with some crazy complicated technique but if it wasn't efficient it was a waste.
 
You know reading through the archives and you obviously have a real thorn in your side about this topic.
I have a thorn in my side about people who say theirs is the only way and that other ways are not "valid:"
We agree that there are two schools of thought, how "valid" they are is up for debate.
I have a thorn in my side about people who make pseudo-technical assertions without any technical backup whatsoever.

Well I think the engineer in me would make the distinction based on mass participation. Of course the distinction between gross and fine is relative. Grabbing the slide you hand and forearm are moving. Pushing the slide release your thumb is moving. There is a large difference in the mass participation.
I'm an engineer, too. B.S., M.E., M.S. I work at a biotechnology lab at a major university. That doesn't give me the ability to make claims about the biomechanical and neurological processes involved, how they change under stress, and the impact of training upon such changes. Unless you can point me towards peer-reviewed journal articles, color me skeptical.

You do have a point about the trigger press, my only argument is muscle memory. Of course that would be the same argument you'd make for slide release. My only counter is that you do the trigger press at least 10-20x more often.
Do you think you can do a reload under pressure? That's a pretty complicated motion -- far more complicated than pushing down on the slide stop. And you only do it as many times as you close the slide, so the number of repetitions are the same. So, you think you can do a reload under pressure but not hit the slide stop? Why?

That's assuming that you can do it reliably. You say you can, I'm not so sure I can.
You appear to be implying that I can't do it reliably. I can. I have. I do. In IDPA competitions I see many other people do the same. Go to an IPSC match and watch the guys in limited 10. Proponents of the overhand method continue to make this assertion that "you won't be able to do it under pressure" but never offer up any evidence to support that assertion. Why people who don't use slide stop method and haven't trained in it feel free to assert that it doesn't work without offering any evidence simply baffles me.

While teaching classes I've seen my students have their hands slip off the slide, failing to retract it far enough to close the slide. Am I implying that you can't do the overhand technique reliably? Heck no. I'm sure you can. It simply takes practice and isn't particularly hard. Doing a tactical reload is far more difficult, IMNSHO.

I think the reason that many trainers only show one is to not confuse students who are already trying to absorb a lot of material.
I understand that time constraints in a class limit the techniques that can be taught. But during an NRA Basic Pistol class I still find the time to teach both techniques. IIRC, in a three-day Tactical Handgun 101 class Randy Cain taught three different ways of doing an tactical reload, all of which are more complicated than pushing down on the slide stop.

Most proponents of the overhand method justify it as being the "right" technique to use due to the "gross motor" bushwa. I don't think they are leaving it out due to time constraints.

Of course there are many ways to accomplish the same goal.
We agree on something, then.

The idea is to pick a reliable and efficient way to do it.
1/4 to 1/2 second slower is more efficient?

Personally I'd like to learn one way that works in as many situations as possible and is as reliable as possible. Rob Pincus is a big proponent of efficiency. In the short class I took at the NEShooters summit he showed some crazy draw technique to prove a point. You could come up with some crazy complicated technique but if it wasn't efficient it was a waste.
Let's compare the two techniques:

Slide stop method:

1. Insert magazine with support hand.
2. As support hand fingers reacquire the grip, the support thumb pushes down on the slide stop. Once support thumb leaves the slide stop, support thumb is in position for the thumb-forward grip.

Overhand method:
1. Insert magazine with support hand.
2. Support hand grabs slide.
3. Support hand drives the slide to the rear, following through strongly, with support hand coming to a stop near elbow or shoulder (depending upon trainer).
4. Support hand then reverses course and moves forward from elbow or shoulder to reacquire grip.

Which technique is more efficient? Which technique is less complicated? Which technique requires less movement of the support hand?

I'm familiar with and support economy of motion. Professional IPSC shooters are all about economy of motion -- that's how they win matches. Which technique do you think Robbie Leatham uses? I'm completely buffaloed that you seem to imply that the overhand method is more economical in movement than the slide stop method -- it isn't.

Gunsite is one of the major proponents of the overhand method. Do you think they are pushing it due to its economy of movement? Have you seen the Gunsite magazine change? It starts by tossing the gun in your hand so that it shifts the backstrap towards your index finger. It is the very antithesis of economy of motion (and one reason why I don't use it).

If you feel you are more reliable using the overhand method, great. It is a good technique.

If I was carrying a gun that had a small slide stop or poorly placed slide stop, then I might use the overhand method as well. I certainly understand why Sig teaches the overhand method, given the poor location and small size of the Sig slide stop. Recognize that the overhand method costs you 1/4 to 1/2 second on your reloads.

With a good sized, properly placed slide stop, the slide stop method is a good technique as well. Both techniques require practice.
 
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Ahem. Getting back to the original question:

When Clint Smith closed his TX facility to move to OR, he did an article on the "lessons learned" during the ten years he was in TX.

The only Glocks he ever saw fail in his courses were the ones that had been "improved" with aftermarket parts. No factory stock Glock ever failed to work at Thunder Ranch.

Regards
John
 
My thoughts on the slide stop/ over hand. I use the overhand. It is what my employer wants, and it is better in a tactical situation. There is nothing wrong with the slide stop method, if it works for you use it. The over hand is more reliable, you can miss the slide stop, it can be hard to depress, gun is wet, or wearing gloves etc. Additionally the fine motor skills argument, your fine skills will be degraded. If you have built up muscle memory to releasing the slide stop then you should be ok. Theres a million ways to skin a cat, both work Ive worked with and trained with allot of outstanding people, and everyone has their own preference. For IDPA I'd use slide stop, for real world I use my over hand, or preferable get the mag in there with enough force to release the slide. There are allot of other things to get more wrapped around than whos a more accomplished engineer or fractions of a second. The only thing that is wrong is assume there is only one way to do anything.
 
what are people's thoughts on aftermarket modifications made to the glocks? Items such as the lighter trigger pull, titanium striker, mag release extension, etc.

Any others that people recommend or don't recommend?

I have a G17 that I carry.

I have small hands and have a Hogue grip. I could not hit the slide release so there is a factory extended one installed. Haven't had a single issue in the 18 years I have been carrying the pistol.

I also have a factory extended slide release and that is what I use release the slide. I really don't care how anyone else releases theirs.

I also have a stainless guide rod and Wolff recoil spring installed.

It also has a stiffer trigger spring installed and a Ti striker. I have fired it with the Ti striker and with the steel striker and I like the Ti striker.

I have had this pistol set up this way for 18+ years and put a lot of rounds through it with no issues.
 
When I began shooting competitively (IPSC) many years ago, I used the slide stop because that is what it is there for. In all those years it has never failed me. No one had mentioned these motor skill problems, probably because they are non-existent. As far as the slide stop being difficult to manipulate; if you can operate the mag release, you can operate the slide stop.

I set up a 22 for competition and went the full route:

Novak sights, FO front
Extended mag release
3.5 lb connector
Wolff extra power trigger spring
Aluminum trigger
Light weight steel striker, I don't like Ti as it doesn't wear well
reduced power striker spring
Maritime spring cups
Tungsten guide rod
13 lb recoil spring

Along with these mods I polished the parts of the trigger group that contacted each other. The end result is a light, crisp (for a Glock) trigger that is 100% reliable with Wolf primers. I have found these primers harder to ignite than my favorite Winchesters, but they are all I can get right now. I save the Winchester and Federal primers for matches.
 
Glock 17, Slide Lock, extended mag release, and 3.5 lb trigger spring/connector all glock factory parts.... 4,000 rounds later, all different types of shooting(mostly tactical), never inadvertantly pressed the mag release.... Never used the slide lock as a release and heres why: By pulling the slide back, you gain up to a 1/2" more travel of the slide, using more momentum, to ensure a positive closing of the chamber... Also, the slide and the slide lock are made of metal, eventually all the grinding will wear the weaker metal right down, and cause to malfuction... I have over 27 years experience with firearms, have seen some shit that would make you cringe... Oh yea! By the way, I have taken 3 Sig Sauer Instructor courses and the the Sig Sauer Armorers course... They all drilled theese words into our heads, "It's called a SLIDE LOCK for a reason"..." To lock the slide open to the rear.... And in an Emergancy, I would want to make sure, that the gun is up and running as soon as possible, without any more complications... Like an unsealed chamber...... By using the slide lock as a release....And unless you've had to draw/use your firearm in an oh-shit moment, you dont know what the F!@K will happen.....
 
Glock 17, Slide Lock, extended mag release, and 3.5 lb trigger spring/connector all glock factory parts.... 4,000 rounds later, all different types of shooting(mostly tactical), never inadvertantly pressed the mag release.... Never used the slide lock as a release and heres why: By pulling the slide back, you gain up to a 1/2" more travel of the slide, using more momentum, to ensure a positive closing of the chamber... Also, the slide and the slide lock are made of metal, eventually all the grinding will wear the weaker metal right down, and cause to malfuction... I have over 27 years experience with firearms, have seen some shit that would make you cringe... Oh yea! By the way, I have taken 3 Sig Sauer Instructor courses and the the Sig Sauer Armorers course... They all drilled theese words into our heads, "It's called a SLIDE LOCK for a reason"..." To lock the slide open to the rear.... And in an Emergancy, I would want to make sure, that the gun is up and running as soon as possible, without any more complications... Like an unsealed chamber...... By using the slide lock as a release....And unless you've had to draw/use your firearm in an oh-shit moment, you dont know what the F!@K will happen.....

The fastest way to get a gun that is on slide lock back into action is to release the slide lock. This is my experience after 30+ years of competition.
 
And in an Emergancy, I would want to make sure, that the gun is up and running as soon as possible, without any more complications... Like an unsealed chamber...... By using the slide lock as a release....And unless you've had to draw/use your firearm in an oh-shit moment, you dont know what the F!@K will happen.....

Depressing the slide lock is about 1/4 to 1/2 second faster than retracting the slide.
 
+1 for Supermoto, you shouldnt be shooting to slide-lock, the gun should be reloaded before the slide locks back.... All reloading should be done at chest high right in front of you... Fresh mag in gun, one less movement you have to make....
 
Well, that assumes that you can count your shots. I doubt I will be able to do that if I am in a gunfight. If you can, more power to you.
 
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