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Things getting real in St. Louis - Armed Lawyer couple keeps BLM at bay

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nstassel said:
I hope that's not what a judge instructed you. That's what a battery is. The harmful or offensive touching of another person is a battery. An assault is to place someone in reasonable fear of an imminent battery.
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You sure?


Except that is not true in NH.


Or MA.

Title 17-A, §207: Assault

www.mainelegislature.org

Or ME.

Shall I go on?

beaker said:
That could be it was a long time ago and the charge was assault and battery. If so I thank you for the correction.
Click to expand...

You may be mistaken on the circumstances of that particular case, but you are not wrong. Assault absolutely involves physical contact in many if not most states.
 
Bonesinium said:
You sure?


Except that is not true in NH.


Or MA.

Title 17-A, §207: Assault

www.mainelegislature.org

Or ME.

Shall I go on?



You may be mistaken on the circumstances of that particular case, but you are not wrong. Assault absolutely involves physical contact in many if not most states.
Click to expand...
Yes I am sure in Mass and in the common law the gravamen of an assault is the apprehension of an immediate battery whereas the battery is the touching. I did not look in NH. I would be curious to see the jury instruction on assault there. NH and some states have merged assault and battery into one offense of assault though. I do tend to always assume people are discussing Mass law which I shouldn't do.

This is the law of assault in Mass. https://www.mass.gov/doc/6120-assault-gl-c-265-s-13aa/download
This is the law of assault and battery. https://www.mass.gov/doc/6140-assault-and-battery-gl-c-265-ss-13a/download
 
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I hope that isn't true, but likely it is. Have some F_ing conviction of whatever your position! Defend your house with an AR on Day 1 and kneel and boot lick on day 4? Why bother in the first place? If public opinion means more than your $20 million dollar house than let it burn. Have some fu%king conviction. Defend your house or let it burn F%ing fight, or give up! You can't do both! We Are officially f***ed! Michaeljr used to be the official keeper of "the go time clock". Not sure if he removed himself, or others did, but there is a noticeable lack of an "official Go Time" timekeeper. seems like a position that needs filling.
 
NESers are losing their touch.
Clearly the husband didn’t run down to the local 5.11 and tacticool himself out and they are short some actual firearms training. They still had the balls to “man the wall” and protect their property.

You’d think some of you haven’t seen what a lot of these protests turn into. They broke through a gate to gain access to that neighborhood. We already know in major cities PD isn’t coming to save their a$$.

IMO if more people stood up to this nonsense you wouldn’t see it happen.
 
jasonj84 said:
I hope that isn't true, but likely it is. Have some F_ing conviction of whatever your position! Defend your house with an AR on Day 1 and kneel and boot lick on day 4? Why bother in the first place? If public opinion means more than your $20 million dollar house than let it burn. Have some fu%king conviction. Defend your house or let it burn F%ing fight, or give up! You can't do both! We Are officially f***ed! Michaeljr used to be the official keeper of "the go time clock". Not sure if he removed himself, or others did, but there is a noticeable lack of an "official Go Time" timekeeper. seems like a position that needs filling.
Click to expand...

64EDF141-B319-4E2E-947E-8445EF3CC6A3.jpeg
 
I am actually looking at an oversized clock in my kitchen right now (courtesy of my wife). No "go time" but plenty of room to add. I will make up the placard now. Just need to know when to put it on. Don't want to wake up tomorrow thinking the war is on because I test fit it tonight after a couple drinks. Maybe I need a "safe word" placard also.
 
Artifact said:
I am a nobody, however you seem to have a clue so please help us out with your knowledge and experience.
Click to expand...
RedLeaf19 said:
Dude watch the news clip with the guy telling the reporter what actually happened and stop spitting out your nonsense. It’s enough already.
Click to expand...

Sarge is right gentlemen. No ifs, ands, or buts. From both a tactical and practical stand point,. what they did was foolish. They should have taken an elevated position, with cover, and only made their presence known when absolutely necessary.
I believe it was probably not illegal, but it was stupid AF.
I will tell you something else. There is likely a reason why hubby was late to the party. His wife got emotional, grabbed a pistol and ran outside. He said "oh shit!" and ran to get his rifle before her Walther jammed and the crowd tore her to pieces.
Hubby really had no choice at that point than to stand by his wife. They both should have kept their mouths shut because engaging in a verbal exchange is pointless and only feeds these morons sound bites.

I live in a two story home. We have a very clear and well understood home defense plan in place and have talked about it on many occasions. In the event that someone breaks in, my wife calls 911, arms herself, and gets the kids with her in a back room. I will position myself at the top of the stairs. They can leave with anything they want until the cops show up. But they are not coming up those stairs. No f***ing way.
But I am not going down and engaging in a friggin firefight over a flat screen tv.
I am no pussy, and have never run away from a fight in my life, and like ole Sarge, the Marine Corps made sure I was pretty handy with a rifle. But two things I know with absolute certainty. When the shooting starts, you want an elevated position, if at all possible. And you have to know when to stfu. They gave up any advantage they had when they yelled at the crowd as they broke the gate. What did they think? They were all going to say "Oops, sorry. We didn't know it was private property" and leave?
I know this is Monday morning quarterbacking, but, they should have
1. Shut the f*** up.
2. Armed themselves and taken an elevated position.
3. Calmed the f*** down.
I applaud their bravery, I really do, and I support their right to defend their home. I am glad the incident did not result in violence, but I still say they acted foolishly.
 
beaker said:
They had no issue with defending what they worked for.
Click to expand...

No time left for that, buddy. But do not worry, your butt will be saved by borises of this world, who have been there, done it, and now they will just squish this sorry communist rerun, so you can continue playing your violent video games for few more decades. [rofl2]

View: https://youtu.be/OZ2NiWvk3pY
 
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Junior314 said:
NESers are losing their touch.
Clearly the husband didn’t run down to the local 5.11 and tacticool himself out and they are short some actual firearms training. They still had the balls to “man the wall” and protect their property.

You’d think some of you haven’t seen what a lot of these protests turn into. They broke through a gate to gain access to that neighborhood. We already know in major cities PD isn’t coming to save their a$$.

IMO if more people stood up to this nonsense you wouldn’t see it happen.
Click to expand...

THIS!!!![bow][bow]

Unfortunately plenty of us think that whatever we purchase at local 5.11 comes with balls included.
And this is the main reason why we all will finally meet each other somewhere about here:

View: https://youtu.be/rB80fwauzOI
 
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fencer said:
Sarge is right gentlemen. No ifs, ands, or buts. From both a tactical and practical stand point,. what they did was foolish. They should have taken an elevated position, with cover, and only made their presence known when absolutely necessary.
I believe it was probably not illegal, but it was stupid AF.
I will tell you something else. There is likely a reason why hubby was late to the party. His wife got emotional, grabbed a pistol and ran outside. He said "oh shit!" and ran to get his rifle before her Walther jammed and the crowd tore her to pieces.
Hubby really had no choice at that point than to stand by his wife. They both should have kept their mouths shut because engaging in a verbal exchange is pointless and only feeds these morons sound bites.

I live in a two story home. We have a very clear and well understood home defense plan in place and have talked about it on many occasions. In the event that someone breaks in, my wife calls 911, arms herself, and gets the kids with her in a back room. I will position myself at the top of the stairs. They can leave with anything they want until the cops show up. But they are not coming up those stairs. No f***ing way.
But I am not going down and engaging in a friggin firefight over a flat screen tv.
I am no pussy, and have never run away from a fight in my life, and like ole Sarge, the Marine Corps made sure I was pretty handy with a rifle. But two things I know with absolute certainty. When the shooting starts, you want an elevated position, if at all possible. And you have to know when to stfu. They gave up any advantage they had when they yelled at the crowd as they broke the gate. What did they think? They were all going to say "Oops, sorry. We didn't know it was private property" and leave?
I know this is Monday morning quarterbacking, but, they should have
1. Shut the f*** up.
2. Armed themselves and taken an elevated position.
3. Calmed the f*** down.
I applaud their bravery, I really do, and I support their right to defend their home. I am glad the incident did not result in violence, but I still say they acted foolishly.
Click to expand...

Well argued piece. Except one thing.What they did worked.
 
jasonj84 said:
I hope that isn't true, but likely it is. Have some F_ing conviction of whatever your position! Defend your house with an AR on Day 1 and kneel and boot lick on day 4? Why bother in the first place? If public opinion means more than your $20 million dollar house than let it burn. Have some fu%king conviction. Defend your house or let it burn F%ing fight, or give up! You can't do both! We Are officially f***ed! Michaeljr used to be the official keeper of "the go time clock". Not sure if he removed himself, or others did, but there is a noticeable lack of an "official Go Time" timekeeper. seems like a position that needs filling.
Click to expand...

People are complicated. They have their own opinions, and a lot of them don't see the world as binary as some folks here on NES.

I can see how someone could rationally accept the goals of BLM, and also rationally decide their house was worth protecting. Under that concept, you might care about SJW-type bullshit and give money to activists and stuff like that, but still face down an angry mob whether they're right-wing, left-wing, centrist, or freakin PETA.

The composition of the mob, under that idea, matters less than the fact that it IS a mob.

Think about it this way: say there's a gun-rights rally nearby, a stampede happens for whatever reason, and your house is in the path of the rampage. You're not going to let them overrun your property just because you agree with them politically, right?
 
Picton said:
People are complicated. They have their own opinions, and a lot of them don't see the world as binary as some folks here on NES.

I can see how someone could rationally accept the goals of BLM, and also rationally decide their house was worth protecting. Under that concept, you might care about SJW-type bullshit and give money to activists and stuff like that, but still face down an angry mob whether they're right-wing, left-wing, centrist, or freakin PETA.

The composition of the mob, under that idea, matters less than the fact that it IS a mob.

Think about it this way: say there's a gun-rights rally nearby, a stampede happens for whatever reason, and your house is in the path of the rampage. You're not going to let them overrun your property just because you agree with them politically, right?
Click to expand...


View: https://youtu.be/WZV4ODP2mtw
 
fencer said:
Sarge is right gentlemen. No ifs, ands, or buts. From both a tactical and practical stand point,. what they did was foolish. They should have taken an elevated position, with cover, and only made their presence known when absolutely necessary.
I believe it was probably not illegal, but it was stupid AF.
I will tell you something else. There is likely a reason why hubby was late to the party. His wife got emotional, grabbed a pistol and ran outside. He said "oh shit!" and ran to get his rifle before her Walther jammed and the crowd tore her to pieces.
Hubby really had no choice at that point than to stand by his wife. They both should have kept their mouths shut because engaging in a verbal exchange is pointless and only feeds these morons sound bites.

I live in a two story home. We have a very clear and well understood home defense plan in place and have talked about it on many occasions. In the event that someone breaks in, my wife calls 911, arms herself, and gets the kids with her in a back room. I will position myself at the top of the stairs. They can leave with anything they want until the cops show up. But they are not coming up those stairs. No f***ing way.
But I am not going down and engaging in a friggin firefight over a flat screen tv.
I am no pussy, and have never run away from a fight in my life, and like ole Sarge, the Marine Corps made sure I was pretty handy with a rifle. But two things I know with absolute certainty. When the shooting starts, you want an elevated position, if at all possible. And you have to know when to stfu. They gave up any advantage they had when they yelled at the crowd as they broke the gate. What did they think? They were all going to say "Oops, sorry. We didn't know it was private property" and leave?
I know this is Monday morning quarterbacking, but, they should have
1. Shut the f*** up.
2. Armed themselves and taken an elevated position.
3. Calmed the f*** down.
I applaud their bravery, I really do, and I support their right to defend their home. I am glad the incident did not result in violence, but I still say they acted foolishly.
Click to expand...
What is the benefit of the elevated position? If the get in the house you’re trapped. If someone tosses a Molotov you’re trapped. Not sure what those walls are made of but it’s unlikely to be cover.
 
sieveboy said:
thoughts on what might have happened if they were rushed? thank god they weren't but it's something I'm thinking about

crowd would have been on them in seconds, and no way the lady is hitting anything
Click to expand...

Bet she would have dumped the whole mag into the crowd......assuming it was loaded and she had the safety off....

The crowd was dense......chances are she would have scored on most every if not every shot
 
Bob P said:
What is the benefit of the elevated position? If the get in the house you’re trapped. If someone tosses a Molotov you’re trapped. Not sure what those walls are made of but it’s unlikely to be cover.
Click to expand...

Limestone, apparently.

I did read that some of the upper-floor windows, though, are Renaissance-era, and a brick would fly right through. The inside catches fire, and you're done.

I, too, would avoid the roof in this case. It leaves a difficult and complicated escape route.
 
Although the muzzling and incompetent handling WAS foolish and wreckless, I would be somewhere plainly seen w/ rifle ready, advertising my intentions silently and without escalating more than needed. Basically although sure hiding out of sight helps tactically, it is not a deterrent or warning.
 
RedLeaf19 said:
Well argued piece. Except one thing.What they did worked.
Click to expand...

It was definately the pink shirt combined with the AR......the rioters KNEW they were dealing with an character that was at LEAST as unhinged as they were......and the wife?

That crazy bitch was waving that gun around...........dont f*** with crazy bitches with guns.....

On the other hand it could have been pure luck.....
 
teamRR said:
Although the muzzling and incompetent handling WAS foolish and wreckless, I would be somewhere plainly seen w/ rifle ready, advertising my intentions silently and without escalating more than needed. Basically although sure hiding out of sight helps tactically, it is not a deterrent or warning.
Click to expand...

You should never face them like they have done it!

In preparations you need to have cameras all around the perimeter of your house. You have to make sure they can take good quality pictures which you can save and view on your phone. You will be able to see from the inside of your house and plan accordingly. If the crowd is huge and violent you will need to retreat. If you think you will be able to manage it you need to have a safe room in your house. You need to build it. If you do not have it, your options for survival are slim to none.

Nobody can face mob for a long time. If mob is armed your house will become a trap. It is vital for your survival to coordinate rescue operations with your friends. You should be able to contact them and share the footage with them prior of them coming to your rescue. This sounds silly and obvious but you need to train for this and you need to know your few possible escape routes. If you have a swamp behind your house, that will be your escape route. Your friends should pick you up when you will cross it, for example. Do not expose your rescue party to the mob! In the urban environment your escape routes will depend on your surroundings. Again, you need to define your escape and plan for it. Do not plan on scaring mob with your weapons!


View: https://youtu.be/-FoacS_MKOc
 
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