The war that we should be fighting

calsdad

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So the warfare in Mexico continues.............


Four police officers were among nearly two dozen people killed after security forces engaged in an hour-long gunbattle with suspected cartel members Saturday in a Mexican town near the U.S. border, days after President Trump said he was moving to designate Mexican drug cartels as terror organizations.

The shootout happened around noon in the small town of Villa Union, a town in Coahuila state located about an hour’s drive southwest of Eagle Pass, Texas.


Coahuila state Gov. Miguel Angel Riquelme told local media that four of the dead were police officers killed in the initial confrontation and that several municipal workers were missing. On Sunday, the Coahuila state government said that security forces killed seven additional members of the gang, bringing the death toll to at least 21.


================================

It was on the nightly news last night as well.


Interesting thing I did not notice that got pointed out by Denninger - was that some of the vehicles used in the attack still have Texas plates on them:




Texas plates eh?

One of the vehicle pictures, a GMC pickup, also appears to have a rear Texas plate on it. The angle makes it impossible to be certain, but it sure looks like a Texas tag and the numbers are in the right format for it. The format and coloration is wrong for a Mexican plate.

 by tickerguy


Then there's the other truck which also has a Texas (front) plate on it.

So these vehicles are American and are registered to Americans. Who has that tag out? Find them right now and lock everyone associated with the transaction up as providing material aid and support to terrorists.

Plate or truck were stolen? How did it/they get into Mexico? Mind explaining how it got through the border on our side? If we're not looking and stopping do you mind explaining why not? And why have the Mexican police not run that plate, known it was stolen, expired or otherwise evidence of a crime and stop the perpetrator? We can take a very good guess at the answer to that question, right?

Riquelme on Saturday made similar comments to Lopez Obrador on how Mexico should handle the problem.
“I don’t think that Mexico needs intervention. I think Mexico needs collaboration and cooperation,” he told reporters. “We’re convinced that the state has the power to overcome the criminals.”
U.S. Attorney General William Barr is scheduled to visit Mexico this week to discuss cooperation over security, according to Reuters.
Uh huh.

These are terrorists. Designate them and shut down all non-provable cash flow over the border, along with all people who are or may be involved, along with seizing all of their property.

At the same time round up all the illegal invaders in the US and deport them. Every last one.

Including all the cartel members, of course. For those US Citizens who attempt to aid and abet them charge them with providing material support to terrorists and jail them.

Do it right f***ing now or grant letters of Marque and Reprisal so we the people can go do it for you.

Oh by the way, no USMCA either. Uh uh. USCA, sure. M. Nope. Not until this crap stops and it's not only gone in Mexico it's also gone here in America.

======================



Supposedly Trump is toying with declaring the drug cartels as terrorist organizations. That's an interesting way to go about things - seeing as how it might well give him the authority to put the fence across the border and shut the thing down - as well as gather up a lot of people here in the US.

I also saw a comment somewhere that there's "internet talk" that there's an aircraft carrier parked off of Mexico on both the Pacific and Gulf coasts.
 

calsdad

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At least two clear shots of trucks with Texas plates still attached:






From the comment section of the Conservative Treehouse article:


emet says:
I think the US trained the Zetas. Wonder whose idea that was.

MitchRyderDetroitWheels says:
December 1, 2019 at 7:02 pm
Those that have a bank account full of cartel money. HSBC was a big deal and should have been shutdown in this country .BUT 1 billion in fines gets them out of jail. One billion was chicken feed for that group.

snellvillebob says:
Just after HSBC paid a record $1.8 billion fine and no one went to prison, James Comey is put on their board of directors. When Mueller left the FBI, replaced by Comey, he went to work as HSBCs chief legal officer.Kinda reminds one of Hunter Biden in Ukraine.

dd_sc says:
December 1, 2019 at 8:34 pm
Isnt that the case where Loretta Lynch was lead attorney back when she was at SDNY

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre....

Comey to FBI, Lynch to AG. How conveniient.


==================================================


So if we officially go to war against Mexico - does that enable throwing domestic enemies and collaborators into jail ?

Lincoln did it.
 

headednorth

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You kill the supply and there will still be demand which will be satisifed from somewhere. Best to deal wih it on the demand side - lift all restrictions and deal with it with education.
Kids have known that "drugs r bad mkay" since the 70's. It's getting to the point where there isn't anyone left who doesnt know someone who's Od'd or is a shitbag junkie. I'm not a big fan of the drug war (which has gone nowhere) but it seems like education has gone nowhere as well.

Funny how we occupy the largest opium producer in the world and the heroin epidemic explodes. Funny how back in the day when the black Panthers were making noise and black separatists were in the news suddenly the crack epidemic hits the black community. Funny that the tea party, militias and just an overall dtom attitude has been taking root in the white community and suddenly everyone and their brother is hooked on heroin.

Tin foil I know, but...
 
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Arto

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seems like everytime the government declares a "war" on a social problem, we just get more of it: i.e., war on drugs, war on poverty, war on high college tuition, war on low education levels...

Almost seems like they should just stick to what it has enumerated in the the Constitution...
 

northny

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Well it’s been 103 years since our last Mexican border war incursion into Mexico. Pershing took the troops a few hundred miles into Mexico and shot up enough of the Mexican ( rebels or bandits, you chose) that afterwards Pancho Villa did not cross border again. Then they marched home and left it to Mexicans to figure out which took most of another decade. My grandfather was part of that. He was out and home just three months in 1916 when he was recalled to active duty the day US broke diplomatic relation with Germany prior to the Great War .

I would not want an army of occupation in Mexico but I would support playing wack a mole every time a mexican cartel impacted US or citizens and a target could be identified.
 

headednorth

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Well it’s been 103 years since our last Mexican border war incursion into Mexico. Pershing took the troops a few hundred miles into Mexico and shot up enough of the Mexican ( rebels or bandits, you chose) that afterwards Pancho Villa did not cross border again. Then they marched home and left it to Mexicans to figure out which took most of another decade. My grandfather was part of that. He was out and home just three months in 1916 when he was recalled to active duty the day US broke diplomatic relation with Germany prior to the Great War .

I would not want an army of occupation in Mexico but I would support playing wack a mole every time a mexican cartel impacted US or citizens and a target could be identified.
I'm just afraid their end of the whackamole would involve shopping malls and movie theatres in AZ and TX.
 

calsdad

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Kids have known that "drugs r bad mkay" since the 70's. It's getting to the point where there isn't anyone left who doesnt know someone who's Od'd or is a shitbag junkie. I'm not a big fan of the drug war (which has gone nowhere) but it seems like education has gone nowhere as well.

Funny how we occupy the largest opium producer in the world and the heroin epidemic explodes. Funny how back in the day when the black Panthers were making noise and black separatists were in the news suddenly the crack epidemic hits the black community. Funny that the tea party, militias and just an overall dtom attitude has been taking root in the white community and suddenly everyone and their brother is hooked on heroin.

Tin foil I know, but...

They've known it a lot further back than that. There was that whole "reefer madness" thing back in the 50's - and Prohibition last from 1920 to 1933.

But I agree - the drug war has gone nowhere.

Look like "education" doesn't really work for a lot of people either.

The ONLY thing I've ever seen that reliably causes behavioral changes in humans - is bad consequences. And if you're a bad enough junkie - or a person with a brain that is sufficiently screwed up (like it appears a lot of left wingers appear to have these days) - then no amount of bad consequences are ever going to work to change your behavior. You'll be able to reason away and excuse away anything bad that happens to you - as just pass it off as somebody else's fault.

I saw this exact thing happen back in the 80s - when all the gay men started dying, there was a significant segment of that population that just pissed and moaned and start attacking "breeders" and the government for not doing anything to cure the disease. God forbid somebody would actually bring up doing something sensible like not sleeping around - you'd get your ass handed to you.

Watching that go down - in retrospect - is probably what gave me my pissy attitude towards drug users and people who get themselves diseases (like AIDS) which they could have entirely avoided if they just behaved differently.

Over the years I've also come to the conclusion that the reason why "in the old days" most societies persecuted and cast these people aside - is because of this:



Taking care of junkies and listening to AIDS patients bitch at you and tell you that you're the cause of their disease - is a first world problem.

I remember reading some Revolutionary War history and in it they talked about how much drunkenness there was. It pointed out that there was a segment of society that sort of lived on the fringes - and was basically perpetually drunk.

You don't really hear anything about it - because these people at the time were just treated as expendable. Maybe a church would give them a bed if they were sleeping outside - but I'm sure all sort of drunks in those days just died on the streets and got dumped into unmarked graves. NYC has a large cemetery full of unmarked graves:

A rare look at New York City's potter's field, home to 1 million dead

I think the questions you need to start asking at some point are:

At what point does personal responsibility have to start counting ?

Exactly how much resources is "society" going to piss away - trying to save people who often simply won't help themselves ?

I think you've got a point as well about the "coincidence" of a drug use epidemic occurring just as social forces arise that are calling for opposition to the government. It's not like the British didn't dump opium into China for a reason.
 

Broccoli Iglesias

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I don’t think people that support this action fully realize the shit show US troops would face fighting cartels in Mexico, it would be Urban Combat with civilians everywhere, the death toll would be horrific, there is not a chance they would be able to drop right in and fix the problem by destroying their compounds either, woman and children are embedded in with these cartel families. Not to mention probably half the Mexican Military is in cooperation with them.
And ... it would create a huge opportunity for someone else to supply the drugs.

If they could somehow solve it and shield us from all drugs (impossible), it would not be the desired outcome for the gov. The war on drugs is a huge welfare program and a very successful program that helped grow the government. So, why would they want to stop it?
 

calsdad

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And ... it would create a huge opportunity for someone else to supply the drugs.

If they could somehow solve it and shield us from all drugs (impossible), it would not be the desired outcome for the gov. The war on drugs is a huge welfare program and a very successful program that helped grow the government. So, why would they want to stop it?

If Trump is smart - he'll declare a "war" but carefully stay away from any of that stuff you're talking about, except for maybe a few surgical attacks here and there. Do just enough to cause the cartels to do something stupid - like attack across the border in force and kill say a dozen Border Patrol agents - and Whala!! - you're probably going to be looking at REAL wall construction.

Trump promised a wall. His base is pissed that he hasn't delivered. Watching what he's been doing - I think he's been looking for a way to get around the obstructionism that the lefties have been engaging in. I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that this stuff will get played for political advantage here in the US - just like it always has been.

I'd like to see it played for political advantage though to do things like : put up a wall, and deport illegals, and chuck US government officials in jail who have been engaging in illegal behavior behind the scenes and cooperating with cartels.

A REAL war down there - would probably just send hordes of "refugees" towards the US border - and the UN would be crawling up our ass to accept them because we'd be the ones blowing up the country they live in. A real hot war down there would probably be just about the stupidest thing we could do to solve the actual problems we have in THIS country.
 
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Kids have known that "drugs r bad mkay" since the 70's. It's getting to the point where there isn't anyone left who doesnt know someone who's Od'd or is a shitbag junkie. I'm not a big fan of the drug war (which has gone nowhere) but it seems like education has gone nowhere as well.

Funny how we occupy the largest opium producer in the world and the heroin epidemic explodes. Funny how back in the day when the black Panthers were making noise and black separatists were in the news suddenly the crack epidemic hits the black community. Funny that the tea party, militias and just an overall dtom attitude has been taking root in the white community and suddenly everyone and their brother is hooked on heroin.

Tin foil I know, but...
Not sure what the second paragraph is all about.
 

blindfire

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For many years our country has been embroiled in wars across the world and sacrificing american lives in countries and for issues that aren't really our problem. Mexican cartels kill many more americans (with drugs, and guns given to them by eric holder) than bad guys from any other country. Mexico is a failed state on our border, they surrendered to the cartels so its clear that mexico is run by the cartels. I fully endorse the usa going to war with the cartels, we should invade mexico whether they like it or not, take out the cartels, (They may outgun the Mexican government but they wont outgun our military) we should destroy them and the corrupt gov of mexico, set this shit strait. I don't wish to sacrifice more American lives, but if there is a legitimate war to fight i believe that this is it. Yes i know supply and demand, lets kill the supply, it cant hurt.
Yeah...cuz going to war with a non-state actor has worked out so well for us so far.

Better solution: legalize everything and gut the demand for cartel supplied drugs. "Buy American Coke instead of that foreign shit." MAGA
 

Garys

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Build the wall high and strong. Station US troops along the border, shoot anyone who tries to cross.
 
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You don't need to go to war with Mexico. There's a simple solution..

#1 build the wall
#2 post automated drone gun turrets all along the wall, every 200 yards.
#3 announce policy - if anyone approaches within 200 yards of the wall, they will be presumed an armed hostile invader and will be gunned down on the Mexican side of the border. Mexico can clean up the bodies.

That will funnel all people wishing to cross the border to official ports of entry where drug dogs, etc. are. People can have paperwork checked, etc...

Mexico bitches about the loss of life. We ignore them. Problem solved.
 

calsdad

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Not sure what the second paragraph is all about.
What he's talking about is that black separatism and black nationalism started to rise during the 60's and the 70's. A short time after this - the 'black community' started to get flooded with drugs, there was the crack and coke epidemic - etc. A number of "black leaders" have made accusations in the past that "the white man" or the government did this on purpose - as a way of keeping the black population subjugated. Other black leaders - notably Farakhan if I remember correctly: has come out and said that black men (in particular) need to get their shit together and stop degrading themselves by becoming drug addicts. That's at least one thing I'd have to agree with those black leaders on: get your shit together. On drugs (and a whole host of other issues.)

The liberty movement, libertarians, the Tea Party - etc , have been making noise about the US government's total overreach over their Constitutional mandates - for AT LEAST two decades now. I'd say more like three (reaching back to the 90s when Clinton was burning babies). Then suddenly the WTC is falling down , we're in a war in Afghanistan (major poppy growing region), previously drawn up legislation is enacted without much of a fight, and a decade or so later we've got a major heroin problem in the "white community" , particularly among the "deplorables" .

It's just another one of those things that seems highly coincidental.

 
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Trump promised a wall. His base is pissed that he hasn't delivered. Watching what he's been doing - I think he's been looking for a way to get around the obstructionism that the lefties have been engaging in. I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that this stuff will get played for political advantage here in the US - just like it always has been.
President Trump's own Congress voted not to fund the wall. President Trump then declared an "emergency" in order to circumvent Congress' wishes, and tried to fund the wall with money earmarked from the military. Congress has, rightly, tried to block this twice now.

How is this obstructionism from the left?

Build the wall high and strong. Station US troops along the border, shoot anyone who tries to cross.
I think in order to do that you would have to repeal the Posse Comitatus Act, as the government can't direct the military to act as a law enforcement agency.
 

Garys

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Yes. The cartels are engaged in war with their own government and want to extend that into our country. They are no different in that regard than ISIS.

A big part of our problem is that we have been treating acts of war like bank robberies since 9/11.

Wait, wouldn't they be acting as "a military"? Isn't that what their job is supposed to be, to protect our country?
 
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Mexico is a sh*t hole. Im not sure we could straighten it out without annexing it. You know the UN would condemn it and we would possibly see other nations come to Mexico’s current governments defense IE; Russia and China. Build the wall and let them sort it out. If the Mexican government completely fails and then we come in to restore order is another story.
 

C. Stockwell

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This thread made me buy Two Mules for Sister Sara on Amazon. BRING ON THE EXPLOSIVE PINATAS!
 

smokey-seven

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Better solution: legalize everything and gut the demand for cartel supplied drugs.
While I can agree with this principle, it then goes to the next stages which are distribution, taxation and control of the product after it has been given to a, "user".

Just making it legal is not a fix. If you look at pot, the taxes are pushing the product to the point where illegal pot is less expensive. The real issue is the additive drugs in the illegal stuff. That always has been the issue. If you want to use and you want clean stuff, go through the legal process. If you don't give a crap then just buy it off the street. If you are hooked, or a dedicated user, you are going for the rush and the least money. Illegal will ALWAYS be there.
 
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