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The unofficial ultimate why is 40 S&W so hated MEGATHREAD!!!!

Like many “new” cartridges, it’s an answer in search of a problem. Which, after the romance of the “latest and greatest” wears off, will make it a little harder to get and more expensive than the already more widely adopted ones. Right or wrong, widespread military and police use (at some point in history) means big production numbers of both ammo and guns, which means easier to find and cheaper. Although it can be a deal with the devil, I (mostly) try to buy guns in common calibers b/c I don’t want to end up with a gun I can’t shoot for lack of ammo…and before I get jumped on…I would love to hand load, but I haven’t the time, money, or space at this time in my life. Hopefully some day.
 
Back in the day I purchased my first pistol, a .40, because it was the go to round for most PD's and I wanted the same thing for home defense. I bought a full size polymer because I was given T&H restrictions for no reason other than the arsehole didn't believe that civilians had the right to carry outside the home. so a CCW was not an option for me at the time. Also, if it was good enough for PD's, then it was good enough for me. I sold it after realizing the pistol wasn't the right grip fit for me.
The second .40 was purchased under the advisement of a LE / Dept. Training Officer for home defense. I have to much money tied up in it to sell, it fits well, and it is no longer being manufactured. It is all metal and the recoil is tolerable.
The third and final one was a new non rape price, G27 in 2011?. I was thinking about selling after a few years and buying a G26 but after conducting a range test, G26 vs. G27, I decided to keep the G27. The test was conducted with factory range ammo. The 3/16" steel plates on the sawhorse were moved a couple of inches with the G26 and the G27 knocked the plates completely off the horse. Would that be considered stopping power or knock down power? Yes, the recoil is much greater but just like my second .40 it is tolerable, once you adjust to it. I was patient enough to find multiple prebans under $20 each over the years and have always found ammo below WM and other LGS cost when I needed to restock. So I kept both but all of my remaining purchases have been 9 mm CCW pistols since acquiring the G27.
I don't hate or love the .40 but would not criticize someone who bought one either. In an all metal full size, I don't think there is that much of a problem with recoil management. But opinions are like my former COP, everyone and Everytown has one!
 
Depends on the pistol or PCC, but I liked 40 in my USP, USP compact and my Sig P229. I didn’t like it in my Kahr P40, or Glock 23s. Minimal (IMO) improvement in ballistics while sacrificing magazine capacity, accuracy and slower follow up shots, over 9mm. If still in MA, and capped at 10 rd mags, I’d preferred 40 for carry. Once I moved to NH, I dumped all my 40 pistols at the FFL to sell on consignment.
 
I hate 40 S&W because when I dump range pickup brass in the case cleaner, the 9s get's stuck in the 40s which get's stuck in the 45s. They stay stuck together, and none of them get clean.

That's it.

I was issued and carried a Sig 2340 for 6 or 7 years. It worked fine, and the 40 S&W ammo was free. Bought a Glock 27 for off duty which also worked fine, and the ammo was still free. When we switched to M&P 45s, sold the 27 so I would stop bridging 9s into 45s in the cleaner.

Then I bought 2 10mms. Which promptly started bridging the 9s into the 45s again. Which I don't hate, even though I hated 40 for that. No fear of inconsistency here!!
 
Both my 1st and 2nd pistols were .40 because Obama, still have them both. Dropped a 9mm barrel into the compact carry one and haven't looked back. My stash of .40 will come in handy once the next shortage happens and I'll still be making range visits while others ration/overpay for their 9mm.

Once the pile of .40 is exhausted I'll drop a 9mm barrel into the full size and carry on.
 
drgrant said:
nah, there are way too many guns for that. the generalized stench of 40 will be around forever. Remember they sold well for over a decade because everyone was busy being tactical timmy…. “efff eye cann onwee cawwy 10 roundz den i mite as well hab da bigga bullat!”.
Click to expand...
I hope you’re right!
 
It has become the red headed step child for sure. I had carried a Glock23 for a bit of time in Detroit working in the Eastern Market. Didn't feel ill-equipped.

I do appreciate the .40 as it makes reloading 10mm cheaper
 
dgrantdoherty said:
en.wikipedia.org

.40 S&W - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Find 1 good thing about it
Click to expand...
Hey, you linked the article! LOL. How about 3 good things? [laugh]
I have never understood the silly NES hatred of a caliber! If you have to hate a caliber, there are many other contenders like the 25acp or 32wcf, or maybe 700 nitro.
And we all overlook the guys that shoot wicked expensive race guns chambered in .40 to make major.
.40 is fine in a big gun, sucks in a little gun. But so does 45 or 357. I love the guys that shit on 40 but carry a 5 round snubby, chambered in 357 mag, with a 2-1/2" barrel.:rolleyes:
Pure suck.

But man, that Eddie Coyle post was hilarious. Someone needs to dig it up and post it here for the new folks.


While possessing nearly identical accuracy,[11] drift and drop as the 9mm Parabellum, it also has an energy advantage[12] over the 9mm Parabellum[13] and .45 ACP,[14] and with a more manageable recoil than the 10mm Auto cartridge.[7] Marshall & Sanow (and other hydrostatic shock proponents) contend that with good jacketed hollow point bullets, the more energetic loads for the .40 S&W can also create hydrostatic shock in human-sized living targets.[15][16]

Based on the ideal terminal ballistic performance in ordnance gelatin during lab testing in the late 1980s and early 1990s, the .40 S&W earned status as "the ideal cartridge for personal defense and law enforcement".[8][17
Click to expand...
 
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EddieCoyle must be busy.
He put it online, so I guess implied consent works here.
He sums it up nicely.

I dislike the .40 on principle, and also because of personal experience not related to the performance of the cartridge.



On Principle

The .40 is symbolic of the pussification of America. You see... in the past, someone at a firearms company took a look at a cartridge like the .38 S&W and said, "Hey... If we made this thing longer, we could get more powder into it and make it more powerful." Everybody within earshot said, "Let's do it!", and the .38 Special was born.



One night several decades later, Colonel D. B. Wesson and Phil Sharpe were sitting around on stools made from elephant legs, drinking straight whiskey and smoking Cuban cigars when the Col picked up a .38 Special and said, "Dude, we should make this thing longer, stuff it full of smokeless powder, and give it a cool name. It would kick ass!" to which Phil Sharpe replied, "You're a pussy if you don't", and Bingo! the .357 Magnum was born.



The same thing happened with the .44 - except Elmer Keith wouldn't stop whining about it so he was drinking whiskey alone, angrily writing magazine articles until Remington finally made his cartridge.



The .40 was developed backwards.



In April of 1986, the FBI was involved in a shootout in Miami with two heavily armed career criminals. The bad guys were killed, but not before they took the lives of FBI Special Agents Gerald Dove and Benjamin Grogan. The subsequent investigation placed partial blame for the agents' deaths on the lack of stopping power exhibited by their 9mm handguns, so the FBI adopted the far superior 10mm cartridge.



Field agents loved the additional firepower, but some of the sissy office staff complained about the 10mm's recoil. One day, some pale doughy accountant picked up a 10mm and said, "If someone else would make this smaller and weaker, it wouldn't hurt my little hand as much when I shoot it." His transgender assistant said, "That a great idea! They could even make the guns smaller to fit in my evening bag", and the .40 was born.



Personal Experience

I've been shooting since my early teens. When I was looking for a carry handgun, I made the mistake of asking a blowhard know-it-all former co-worker his opinion.



He had one gun - a Sigma in .40 S&W - which in his mind made him an expert on firearms - and since he had a .40, it had to be the best cartridge ever conceived. After that, every time he saw me he'd spend what seemed like hours expounding on the virtues of the .40 as "the perfect cartridge". As a result, I began to hate it.



The deal was sealed soon thereafter, when I had a bad gun shop experience with some crusty old fossil that tried to hard-sell me a .40. The non-conformist in me kicked into high gear and I said to myself, "I'm never going to own one of these friggin' things".



A side story about the know-it-all blowhard:



A couple of years ago I was talking to the know-it-all blowhard and I mentioned that I was reloading for my .500. He said, "There's no such thing as a .50 caliber revolver". I directed him to Google and told him to do his research. (He must've missed the release of the X-frames because he couldn't hear it over the sound of how awesome the .40 is).



After he decided that it existed, he asked if he could shoot my .500 because he was "proficient with big bore revolvers" and might be able to show me some tips on shooting it. So, I took Mr. Proficiency out to the range, put a single mild load in my 8" .500, he shot it, and dropped my gun! He grabbed his wrist and started hopping around crying like Nancy Kerrigan. He broke the fiberoptic front sight on my revolver and never paid for it. He still loves the .40 though.



Oct 6, 2009
 
I don't hate the .40. In theory, it was a good idea. It has two negatives as I see it. It's chambered in guns that are chambered in 9mm which means it beats the shit out of both gun and shooter. It was supposed to be the ultimate police round. It's not.
 
40S&W! 'cause 9mm is for gay European lovers.
40S&W! 'case 9mm is a nazi caliber!
40S&W! 'cause 10mm designers were too dumb to make it fit in regular guns
40 S&W! 'cause .45 ACP is like your 104yo grandfather: it farts a lot but can't hit anything
40S&W! 'cause it gets NES fudds riled up!
40 S&W! Best American caliber ever made!
 
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This ship has sailed. Most people that shoot .40 don't say its the only and best thing out there. They shoot and shut up about it like me. There are three main auto handgun calibers and I own and shoot all three and am not a fagboy about any of them, or a fagboy about shitting on any of them..

This Eddie Coyle bullshit is just that.....what was something like it 40 was created for girls who couldn;t handle 10mm?

How many of you assclowns that shit on .40 carry 10mm? Probably very little....meaning your carrying 9mm, which is even weaker....your a bigger pussy.
380??.....Christ....do you even own a set of balls?

So if your buying into that and your not shooting a 10mm....your a pussy. Nuff said about that.

In Reality.....

When .40 came out everyone was changing to it and a lot of people said .40 was the best thing since sliced bread, causing a lot of people to buy 40.

At the same time, bullet manufacture became a lot better making 9mm loads a lot better.

There was a backlash reaction to every gun nut saying .40 was all you need. I get that......like anything else that becomes tremendously popular. Eventually there
will be a reverse reaction.

I use and shoot .40. Big fxcking deal. I use and shoot 9mm, Big f***ing deal. I use and shoot .45acp. Big f***ing deal.

.40 is a round that's out there, its effective, has been proven so, and I'm Im willing to bet most of you wouldn't volunteer to stand in front of a pistol shooting it.
 
Mark from MA said:
This ship has sailed. Most people that shoot .40 don't say its the only and best thing out there. They shoot and shut up about it like me. There are three main auto handgun calibers and I own and shoot all three and am not a fagboy about any of them, or a fagboy about shitting on any of them..

This Eddie Coyle bullshit is just that.....what was something like it 40 was created for girls who couldn;t handle 10mm?

How many of you assclowns that shit on .40 carry 10mm? Probably very little....meaning your carrying 9mm, which is even weaker....your a bigger pussy.
380??.....Christ....do you even own a set of balls?

So if your buying into that and your not shooting a 10mm....your a pussy. Nuff said about that.

In Reality.....

When .40 came out everyone was changing to it and a lot of people said .40 was the best thing since sliced bread, causing a lot of people to buy 40.

At the same time, bullet manufacture became a lot better making 9mm loads a lot better.

There was a backlash reaction to every gun nut saying .40 was all you need. I get that......like anything else that becomes tremendously popular. Eventually there
will be a reverse reaction.

I use and shoot .40. Big fxcking deal. I use and shoot 9mm, Big f***ing deal. I use and shoot .45acp. Big f***ing deal.

.40 is a round that's out there, its effective, has been proven so, and I'm Im willing to bet most of you wouldn't volunteer to stand in front of a pistol shooting it.
Click to expand...
What's a fagboy called when they don't shit on a round but rather anyone with an opinion? 😉
 
There are cartridges, and then there is The cartridge. Fourtay is not for everyone. When heavenly Father deems a shooter ready for the caliber, he will appear to the shooter in a dream, and bestow unto him or her a M&P 40 1.0 (God has no use for front slide serrations) and two extra non-Mass compliant magazines. So, then, another Christian soldier is born to right wrongs and vanquish evil with a steady gaze and wrists of steel.

Really, .40 is more of a calling than a caliber.
 
KrymSIX said:

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/kccpj4/analysis_of_9mm_vs_40_sw_with_numbers/


The above has some good analysis of why 40 isn't a bad choice for personal or home defense, it just may not be your preference. It's a more powerful round than 9mm that is still quite manageable. You give up about 1 round per magazine compared to 9mm but the difference in tissue damage and penetration is significant.

There is indisputable evidence that 40 does more damage per shot (+/- 30% more tissue disruption and about 20% more penetration) than 9mm and goes through layers of clothing easier than 9mm.

The FBI switched from 40 to 9mm in large part because of the volume of ammo used by field agents and the entirety of the FBI during training etc. For an organization with approximately 35,000 employees, the vast majority of whom need firearms training the cost savings using 9mm is huge.

For an individual spending slightly more on 40 ammo vs 9mm is negligible in the long term. So it really comes down to recoil management.

Lots of people compare 40 vs 9mm in the same polymer guns where 9mm has the advantage regarding recoil If you run a steel or metal frame gun, the difference in recoil is negligible.

If you see a nice pistols at closeout prices because it's in 40 it may be worth checking out, just don't expect to turn a profit on it if you go to resell or trade it in.

I shoot limited major so I reload 40 so it just made sense for my home defense/carry gun to be in 40. Just adjust my OAL setting and powder and crank out training ammo for my HD gun or my competition gun depending on the day.
Click to expand...


So basically all the rabid 9mm fans are extolling the virtues of the FBI's skinflinting initiative?

The FBI switched from 40 to 9mm in large part because of the volume of ammo used by field agents and the entirety of the FBI during training etc. For an organization with approximately 35,000 employees, the vast majority of whom need firearms training the cost savings using 9mm is huge.
 
Mark from MA said:
This ship has sailed. Most people that shoot .40 don't say its the only and best thing out there. They shoot and shut up about it like me. There are three main auto handgun calibers and I own and shoot all three and am not a fagboy about any of them, or a fagboy about shitting on any of them..

This Eddie Coyle bullshit is just that.....what was something like it 40 was created for girls who couldn;t handle 10mm?

How many of you assclowns that shit on .40 carry 10mm? Probably very little....meaning your carrying 9mm, which is even weaker....your a bigger pussy.
380??.....Christ....do you even own a set of balls?

So if your buying into that and your not shooting a 10mm....your a pussy. Nuff said about that.

In Reality.....

When .40 came out everyone was changing to it and a lot of people said .40 was the best thing since sliced bread, causing a lot of people to buy 40.

At the same time, bullet manufacture became a lot better making 9mm loads a lot better.

There was a backlash reaction to every gun nut saying .40 was all you need. I get that......like anything else that becomes tremendously popular. Eventually there
will be a reverse reaction.

I use and shoot .40. Big fxcking deal. I use and shoot 9mm, Big f***ing deal. I use and shoot .45acp. Big f***ing deal.

.40 is a round that's out there, its effective, has been proven so, and I'm Im willing to bet most of you wouldn't volunteer to stand in front of a pistol shooting it.
Click to expand...
You are taking all the fun out of this thread. Do you shoot Creedmoor also?
And I like .380 in a Colt Mustang and .38+P in my snubby.
 
Mountain said:
So basically all the rabid 9mm fans are extolling the virtues of the FBI's skinflinting initiative?

The FBI switched from 40 to 9mm in large part because of the volume of ammo used by field agents and the entirety of the FBI during training etc. For an organization with approximately 35,000 employees, the vast majority of whom need firearms training the cost savings using 9mm is huge.
Click to expand...
What about the new IRS assassins?
 
The 40 caliber by S&W will be rebranded/reimagined/relaunched as 10mm Kurz by H&K and then it will be a the 'hot' caliber again. [rolleyes]

The only thing it has going for it vs. modern 9mm ammunition, compared to when it was first introduced, is marginally better penetration of car doors and laminated glazing like automotive windshields. This is why some highway patrols stuck with .40 S&W due to their frequency of having shootouts with people using stopped cars as cover. For anyone else there's not a compelling reason to use .40S&W.
 
iu

Saw this earlier and it is perfect for a .40 thread.
 
fencer said:
Hey, you linked the article! LOL. How about 3 good things? [laugh]
I have never understood the silly NES hatred of a caliber! If you have to hate a caliber, there are many other contenders like the 25acp or 32wcf, or maybe 700 nitro.
And we all overlook the guys that shoot wicked expensive race guns chambered in .40 to make major.
.40 is fine in a big gun, sucks in a little gun. But so does 45 or 357. I love the guys that shit on 40 but carry a 5 round snubby, chambered in 357 mag, with a 2-1/2" barrel.:rolleyes:
Pure suck.

But man, that Eddie Coyle post was hilarious. Someone needs to dig it up and post it
Click to expand...
Mark from MA said:
This ship has sailed. Most people that shoot .40 don't say its the only and best thing out there. They shoot and shut up about it like me. There are three main auto handgun calibers and I own and shoot all three and am not a fagboy about any of them, or a fagboy about shitting on any of them..

This Eddie Coyle bullshit is just that.....what was something like it 40 was created for girls who couldn;t handle 10mm?

How many of you assclowns that shit on .40 carry 10mm? Probably very little....meaning your carrying 9mm, which is even weaker....your a bigger pussy.
380??.....Christ....do you even own a set of balls?

So if your buying into that and your not shooting a 10mm....your a pussy. Nuff said about that.

In Reality.....

When .40 came out everyone was changing to it and a lot of people said .40 was the best thing since sliced bread, causing a lot of people to buy 40.

At the same time, bullet manufacture became a lot better making 9mm loads a lot better.

There was a backlash reaction to every gun nut saying .40 was all you need. I get that......like anything else that becomes tremendously popular. Eventually there
will be a reverse reaction.

I use and shoot .40. Big fxcking deal. I use and shoot 9mm, Big f***ing deal. I use and shoot .45acp. Big f***ing deal.

.40 is a round that's out there, its effective, has been proven so, and I'm Im willing to bet most of you wouldn't volunteer to stand in front of a pistol shooting it.
Click to expand...
Jeff Cooper swore by .45. Good enough for Jeff, good enough for me.
 
It’s a relatively popular caliber in the action shooting sports (USPSA). In the Limited division.
Companies like Atlas Gunworks making some of their guns in .40 and they cost $5k plus.

Atlas Titan RDS - Atlas Gunworks

www.atlasgunworks.com www.atlasgunworks.com

Anyway, enough with the serious talk. Beyond the competition world, it’s ghey I guess?
 
DW357 said:
It’s a relatively popular caliber in the action shooting sports (USPSA). In the Limited division.
Companies like Atlas Gunworks making some of their guns in .40 and they cost $5k plus.

Atlas Titan RDS - Atlas Gunworks

www.atlasgunworks.com www.atlasgunworks.com

Anyway, enough with the serious talk. Beyond the competition world, it’s ghey I guess?
Click to expand...
I mean, people in the competition world shoot 38 Super...
 

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