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The Tactical 'Look'

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[Rant Mode ON]

In the beginning there was the 5.11 stuff. Then I saw where Sig was selling Sig Tac stuff on their web site. Now I see an announcement that Woolrich - WOOLRICH [!] - is coming out with a line of "tactical" vests, shirts and pants.
http://www.backyardoutfitter.com/Index.htm

Personally, the last time I ran into somebody all tricked out in the 5.11 clothes, Oakley shoes and glasses, etc. was at one of John Farnam's classes. The guy in question worked for the Federal government's Homeland Security Department. As a lawyer!

(His girlfriend, who was a lawyer for the Dept of Interior, was there with him taking the course also. She was really cute, and dressed normally. The subject of whether government lawyers should be allowed to breed with each other is probably best left to another thread, or maybe even another board! [lol] )

I find the whole "high speed, low drag 'look'" silly. It is, if anything, just the OPPOSITE of the look I am trying to project in public.

Hmmn. Maybe there's a new signature line there:

I Am NOT Getting Old, Slow, And Fat! This Is A Low Speed, High Drag DISGUISE I've Adopted To Camouflage My Awesome Skills And Fool My Enemies!

[Rant Mode OFF]

Regards
John
 
I've got some 511 pants. They're comfortable. So are the Oakley shoes and boots.

But my vest came from Cabelas.

You recognize 511 pants. So do some other gun owners and some police officers. The average person is simply clueless -- they just look like funny pants to them.
 
Lynne said:
O.P. - You're thread, for whatever reason, was a duplicate, so I deleted the second one. :D

Thank you. Not sure what I did. I think it had something to do with the back button on my browser, and having to hit refresh . Or maybe Virgo was just in trine with Neptune, or something. :D

Regards
John
 
M1911 said:
I've got some 511 pants. They're comfortable. So are the Oakley shoes and boots.

I had a pair of 511 pants, too, and they WERE comfortable. I used to wear them with a Hawaiian shirt, and joke that I was trying to impersonate a police officer trying to impersonate a civilian! [lol]

M1911 said:
But my vest came from Cabelas.

Mine is a blue denim from Concealed Carry Clothiers. I'm thinking of having a seamstress add some western patterned cloth over the yoke, or something.

M1911 said:
You recognize 511 pants. So do some other gun owners and some police officers. The average person is simply clueless -- they just look like funny pants to them.

I've seen this argument in other forums. I know of no evidence to either support or refute your statement, so in the end it comes down to an IS SO! / IS NOT! sort of thing.

I can only say two things.

1: They're a dead giveaway to ME.

2: It's usually a bad idea to assume that your enemies are stupider or less knowledgable than you are.

For that reason, I've chosen to avoid the whole look - although I confess that I DO wear a riggers belt everywhere on my jeans.

As always, YMMV.

Regards
John
 
M1911 said:
You recognize 511 pants. So do some other gun owners and some police officers. The average person is simply clueless -- they just look like funny pants to them.

Here's an odd thought that just occurred to me.

I work for New York State in a Secure Juvenile Detention Facility.

Many of the little thugs we have locked up there are either gang members or wannabes, and we have to go to considerable trouble to keep them from implementing ANY kind of gang recognition symbols.

And it's a cat and mouse game, as soon as we clamp down on one thing - they were lacing their sneakers in elaborate patterns, skipping certain holes, for example - they come up with something else.

We had to throw away several thousand new toothbrushes in assorted colors - red, blue, green, and yellow - and replace them with all white ones. We found the Bloods were going after any non-blood with a red tootbrush, they were trying to develop toothbrush color as a new gang symbol!

Anyway, it's just occurred to me to wonder if perhaps, unconciously, we're looking at this tactical look as a kind of shooter's "club color" to identify ourselves to other shooters?

Interesting thought.

Regards
John
 
5.11 "Shoot Me First" vest

I only wear my 5.11 "Shoot Me First" vest to IDPA matches.:)

Respectfully,
 
John:

I've tried on suit coats on the sales floor in Boston at Brooks Brothers. While wearing a white shirt, black Kimber Compact, and plated Wilson magazines.

The only people who noticed were the salesman and the tailor. The ladies shopping 6 feet away never saw it.

M1911
 
Well, the sad truth is that there are a lot of 'arm chair" commandos and wannbes out there, and if they can't "walk the walk" they can, at least, "talk the talk" and wear what they perceive are the right "duds". Having said that, I have always been partial to the photoghapher's type vest. mainly because I like all of the pocikets, but it also screams "concealed carry." I also like cargo or BDU style pants but haven't worn any like that since I retired from the Army even though cargo pants enjoy some popularity. (I gave all my BDU's away to enthusiastic civilians BTW)

To a degree, I think like any sub-culture, there are those in "gun-culture" who want to make some kind of statement...just see how folks dress at gun shows (mea culpa :) )

Regards,

Mark
 
M1911 said:
John:

I've tried on suit coats on the sales floor in Boston at Brooks Brothers. While wearing a white shirt, black Kimber Compact, and plated Wilson magazines.

The only people who noticed were the salesman and the tailor. The ladies shopping 6 feet away never saw it.

M1911

I think we're all pretty much in agreement that the average American is walking around in a condition that's even whiter than white.

The problem is that predators, at least while they are "working", AREN'T in white.

And while you can make a pretty good argument that the average perp will try to avoid tangling with an armed man, I worry about situations like being in line at my credit union when the armed robbery goes down.

My goal at such times is to look as meek and inoffensive as possible and keep my options open.

The LAST thing I want at a time like that is to look JUST LIKE the undercover cops who busted them last time.

(To be fair, I should add that I've been buying my clothes from Big & Tall Men's stores my whole life, and something about being 6'7 and weighing 250 pounds (and being VERY alert at all times) seems to be very discouraging to muggers. At any rate, I've never felt that I've needed the perps to think I might be armed from the way I am dressed to encourage them to go find another victim.)

Regards
John
 
Optimistic:

I'm considering the probabilities. First, the chances of my needing to use deadly force to defend myself are very low. Second, the chances of my need to use deadly force to defend myself against someone who knows what 511 pants are is even lower. The chances of my having to defend myself against someone who knows what 511 pants are AND recognizes them at the time are even lower than that.

I understand and agree with the idea of keeping a low profile. That's why I'm not a big fan of open carry.

If you want to worry about gangbangers knowing what 511 pants are, have at it. I'm a lot more worried about getting hit by a drunk driver on the way home.
 
What you should be worried about it being profiled by the cops as someone who is carrying. Think I'm joking on an anti-police diatribe ? I only am reporting to this forum what more than one police officer has told me.

Mark
 
And since I've got an LTC all lawful purposes, the worst they can do is harrass me.

I've worn the 511s now and then. I've worn my vest. I've been stopped while carrying and while wearing my vest. No, I wasn't proned out or even asked for an LTC.
 
jkelly wrote:
I only wear my 5.11 "Shoot Me First" vest to IDPA matches.

Respectfully,
jkelly


This pretty much begs the obvious question: How do you conceal it the rest of the time?

Regards
John


John,

I use jackets for concealment.

I'd never use my 5.11 vest as to me it just screams "I GOT A GUN".
I don't think that I've ever seen a person wearing a 5.11 like vest, outside of shooting/gun event, that wasn't carrying a camera or a fly rod.


Respectfully,

jkelly
 
"This pretty much begs the obvious question: How do you conceal it the rest of the time?

Regards
John"


No one suspects hip-hugger jeans, but finding a good holster to use with them is a pain in the ........
 
K-DUB said:
"This pretty much begs the obvious question: How do you conceal it the rest of the time?

Regards
John"


No one suspects hip-hugger jeans, but finding a good holster to use with them is a pain in the ........

K-Dub,

For women in particular! There are damn few holsters made for women (I am told that most will angle inward and dig into the rib cage). Shout out to Jim Conway as he had some info on holsters for women. Also he or I should be able to put you in touch with Andy Langlois or his Wife for more info. Andy is actually making holsters (I've seen some of his work but never worn any), so perhaps he's made some for her? He's also a LE firearms instructor, so perhaps he's addressed the issue for his troops. Andy is registered here but he's only hit and run a few times here. I spoke to him at length on 12/21 and I know he's flat out at work thru tomorrow. Send me an Email directly if you need his contact info.
 
LenS said:
K-DUB said:
"This pretty much begs the obvious question: How do you conceal it the rest of the time?

Regards
John"


No one suspects hip-hugger jeans, but finding a good holster to use with them is a pain in the ........

K-Dub,

For women in particular! There are damn few holsters made for women (I am told that most will angle inward and dig into the rib cage). Shout out to Jim Conway as he had some info on holsters for women. Also he or I should be able to put you in touch with Andy Langlois or his Wife for more info. Andy is actually making holsters (I've seen some of his work but never worn any), so perhaps he's made some for her? He's also a LE firearms instructor, so perhaps he's addressed the issue for his troops. Andy is registered here but he's only hit and run a few times here. I spoke to him at length on 12/21 and I know he's flat out at work thru tomorrow. Send me an Email directly if you need his contact info.

Thanks Len,
It's not an issue with the PPK, or snubbie revolver, but the larger semiauto's are a bit tricky to hide with girl clothes on.
 
LenS said:
K-DUB said:
"This pretty much begs the obvious question: How do you conceal it the rest of the time?

Regards
John"


No one suspects hip-hugger jeans, but finding a good holster to use with them is a pain in the ........

K-Dub,

For women in particular! There are damn few holsters made for women (I am told that most will angle inward and dig into the rib cage). Shout out to Jim Conway as he had some info on holsters for women. Also he or I should be able to put you in touch with Andy Langlois or his Wife for more info. Andy is actually making holsters (I've seen some of his work but never worn any), so perhaps he's made some for her? He's also a LE firearms instructor, so perhaps he's addressed the issue for his troops. Andy is registered here but he's only hit and run a few times here. I spoke to him at length on 12/21 and I know he's flat out at work thru tomorrow. Send me an Email directly if you need his contact info.

Thanks Len,
It's not an issue with the PPK, or snubbie revolver, but the larger semiauto's are a bit tricky to hide with girl clothes on.
 
LenS said:
K-DUB said:
"This pretty much begs the obvious question: How do you conceal it the rest of the time?

Regards
John"


No one suspects hip-hugger jeans, but finding a good holster to use with them is a pain in the ........

K-Dub,

For women in particular! There are damn few holsters made for women (I am told that most will angle inward and dig into the rib cage). Shout out to Jim Conway as he had some info on holsters for women. Also he or I should be able to put you in touch with Andy Langlois or his Wife for more info. Andy is actually making holsters (I've seen some of his work but never worn any), so perhaps he's made some for her? He's also a LE firearms instructor, so perhaps he's addressed the issue for his troops. Andy is registered here but he's only hit and run a few times here. I spoke to him at length on 12/21 and I know he's flat out at work thru tomorrow. Send me an Email directly if you need his contact info.

Thanks Len,
It's not an issue with the PPK, or snubbie revolver, but the larger semiauto's are a bit tricky to hide with girl clothes on.
 
K-DUB said:
Thanks Len,
It's not an issue with the PPK, or snubbie revolver, but the larger semiauto's are a bit tricky to hide with girl clothes on.

That's why I have different attires for different guns. :D [wink]
 
K-DUB said:
Thanks Len,
It's not an issue with the PPK, or snubbie revolver, but the larger semiauto's are a bit tricky to hide with girl clothes on.

That's why I have different attires for different guns. :D [wink]
 
K-DUB said:
Thanks Len,
It's not an issue with the PPK, or snubbie revolver, but the larger semiauto's are a bit tricky to hide with girl clothes on.

That's why I have different attires for different guns. :D [wink]
 
That's why I have different attires for different guns.
My Gawd, Lynne!

This means I'll have to fund my daughter's need to re-wardrobe/accessorize when she's old enough for a ME LTC?? There's no way she'd EVER wear a fanny pack or one of those "going to the office" purses!
 
That's why I have different attires for different guns.
My Gawd, Lynne!

This means I'll have to fund my daughter's need to re-wardrobe/accessorize when she's old enough for a ME LTC?? There's no way she'd EVER wear a fanny pack or one of those "going to the office" purses!
 
That's why I have different attires for different guns.
My Gawd, Lynne!

This means I'll have to fund my daughter's need to re-wardrobe/accessorize when she's old enough for a ME LTC?? There's no way she'd EVER wear a fanny pack or one of those "going to the office" purses!
 
Ray P said:
That's why I have different attires for different guns.
My Gawd, Lynne!

This means I'll have to fund my daughter's need to re-wardrobe/accessorize when she's old enough for a ME LTC?? There's no way she'd EVER wear a fanny pack or one of those "going to the office" purses!

Yup...it's almost as bad as the boot collection.....I have already aquired a pile of different holsters: SOB, Cross draw, strong hip, Undercover comfort shirt holster, belly band, etc......
 
Ray P said:
That's why I have different attires for different guns.
My Gawd, Lynne!

This means I'll have to fund my daughter's need to re-wardrobe/accessorize when she's old enough for a ME LTC?? There's no way she'd EVER wear a fanny pack or one of those "going to the office" purses!

Yup...it's almost as bad as the boot collection.....I have already aquired a pile of different holsters: SOB, Cross draw, strong hip, Undercover comfort shirt holster, belly band, etc......
 
Ray P said:
That's why I have different attires for different guns.
My Gawd, Lynne!

This means I'll have to fund my daughter's need to re-wardrobe/accessorize when she's old enough for a ME LTC?? There's no way she'd EVER wear a fanny pack or one of those "going to the office" purses!

Yup...it's almost as bad as the boot collection.....I have already aquired a pile of different holsters: SOB, Cross draw, strong hip, Undercover comfort shirt holster, belly band, etc......
 
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