The President Trump Megathread

Sauer Grapes

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No, I meant if their economy crumbles, does that make our dollar worth more (so we pay less) or less, so we pay more? Or something like that. I majored in home ec in college [laugh] Plus I'm a couple of eggnog n' rum (ok, rum n' eggnog) in.
Extra points if you're drinking out of the moose mugs from Christmas Vacation
IMG_0650.JPG
 

number9

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No, I meant if their economy crumbles, does that make our dollar worth more (so we pay less) or less, so we pay more? Or something like that. I majored in home ec in college [laugh] Plus I'm a couple of eggnog n' rum (ok, rum n' eggnog) in.
If their economy crumbles, then their currency will crumble along with it. We would be able to pay less for the same goods.
 

calsdad

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Trump should just take the next planned tariff increase, double it, and put it in place tomorrow. If China wont actually negotiate, just crush their economy into rubble.
Gotta be at least a little bit careful with embargoes, tariffs, blockades - and all the rest of that economic warfare stuff.

Economic warfare is what gave the Japanese the final push to attack the US and start the Pacific phase of WW2. People conveniently forget all of this and think that WW2 for the US started at Pearl Harbor which happened by magic somehow when the Japanese just woke up one day and decided to attack us for no reason.

The truth is that at least some of the reason why the Japanese started invading all over Asia - was to drive out the Europeans - who had invaded before. And then the Europeans -and the Americans - who saw their "interests" threatened - started screwing with the Japanese. The US had put an embargo on things like steel and oil against the Japanese, which was a real blow to the viability of their economy.

To my way of thinking the problem with all of this economic warfare stuff - is that the dumbass politicians announce it. It's one thing to come out and say to somebody "I think you suck so I'm going to cut the electric lines off your house, cut the gas lines in your car - and get your credit score ruined by telling banks you're a racist".

When you go and tell somebody "I'm going to screw you" - and then you go do it, you're setting up the stage for a war.

It's much better to just go screw them - and not tell them. They wake up one day and they have no power - and the lines are cut off their house. Their credit score is ruined - and they don't know why. You can get away with screwing somebody for a LONG time if you just don't announce it.

The Chinese and Mexicans have been doing it to us for DECADES.
 
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I am thinking the old and hot pic is not the same person. The original pic is I think Fiona Apple, not Fiona Hill. Fiona Apple looks a little worse for the wear as well at this point.
Add ten years to ANYBODY named Fiona and they'll look 30 years older. Except for the character Fiona in Burn Notice.
 

jct61765

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Gotta be at least a little bit careful with embargoes, tariffs, blockades - and all the rest of that economic warfare stuff.

Economic warfare is what gave the Japanese the final push to attack the US and start the Pacific phase of WW2. People conveniently forget all of this and think that WW2 for the US started at Pearl Harbor which happened by magic somehow when the Japanese just woke up one day and decided to attack us for no reason.

The truth is that at least some of the reason why the Japanese started invading all over Asia - was to drive out the Europeans - who had invaded before. And then the Europeans -and the Americans - who saw their "interests" threatened - started screwing with the Japanese. The US had put an embargo on things like steel and oil against the Japanese, which was a real blow to the viability of their economy.

To my way of thinking the problem with all of this economic warfare stuff - is that the dumbass politicians announce it. It's one thing to come out and say to somebody "I think you suck so I'm going to cut the electric lines off your house, cut the gas lines in your car - and get your credit score ruined by telling banks you're a racist".

When you go and tell somebody "I'm going to screw you" - and then you go do it, you're setting up the stage for a war.

It's much better to just go screw them - and not tell them. They wake up one day and they have no power - and the lines are cut off their house. Their credit score is ruined - and they don't know why. You can get away with screwing somebody for a LONG time if you just don't announce it.

The Chinese and Mexicans have been doing it to us for DECADES.
How did that turn out for the japanese?
 

Broccoli Iglesias

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Tariffs don't effect US govt debt. Though obviously it could influence further purchases. At this point China is under tough economic conditions and they have HK driving world awareness of how shitty they are. Now is the time to pressure them becuase while their economy is floundering they will need USD to help stabilize.
Chinese people have been getting their money our of China for a long time and buying properties here to keep it "safe".

The demand for dollars outside the U.S is huge.
 

Zappa

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How did that turn out for the japanese?
Badly.

Things are different now though. China has nukes, and state funded hackers, and allegedly (could be Chinese bluster but who knows) missiles that cost millions designed to blow up surface ships costing billions. A hot war with China would be like [insert US vs. USSR WWIII nightmare scenarios here]
 

Spanz

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Spanz

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Badly.

Things are different now though. China has nukes, and state funded hackers, and allegedly (could be Chinese bluster but who knows) missiles that cost millions designed to blow up surface ships costing billions. A hot war with China would be like [insert US vs. USSR WWIII nightmare scenarios here]
We have fought the Chinese once before, near the Chosin Reservoir. How did THAT go for the US?

The approach that Nixon started, engaging the communists in China with capitalist economic forces, is STILL the best approach. It has kept this nuclear enemy on speaking terms with us for 50 years! A few setbacks do not mean we need to derail the policy! Stick with it.
 

xtry51

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We have fought the Chinese once before, near the Chosin Reservoir. How did THAT go for the US?

The approach that Nixon started, engaging the communists in China with capitalist economic forces, is STILL the best approach. It has kept this nuclear enemy on speaking terms with us for 50 years! A few setbacks do not mean we need to derail the policy! Stick with it.
I would argue this is not as effective as it was with the USSR. This is because of the completely insane level of censorship and control the communists have over the Chinese people. Did you see the video of the civilian cuffed to a metal restraint desk while they interrogated him over a social media post critical of police just recently? Did you know they require facial recognition to own a cell phone? That they've denied hundreds of thousands of people transportation rights over their government social score?

This is not analog 1980. The communists have ever tool Orwell dreamed about and then some. And they use them all to crush any hint of dissent.
 

xtry51

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calsdad

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We have fought the Chinese once before, near the Chosin Reservoir. How did THAT go for the US?

The approach that Nixon started, engaging the communists in China with capitalist economic forces, is STILL the best approach. It has kept this nuclear enemy on speaking terms with us for 50 years! A few setbacks do not mean we need to derail the policy! Stick with it.
I'd agree that engagement is better than war, but gutting your own country to appease an enemy is still defeat in the end, it just takes longer
 

jpk

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I think attacking us would be a very bad idea.
Part of the problem is that both the russians and the chi comms believe that a nuclear war is winnable......the resulting loss of life/misery is not as big a deal for them.....we're talking about two nations who have in the last 80 years murdered tens of millions of their own citizens
 

calsdad

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I think attacking us would be a very bad idea.
They don't have to attack the US.

They can attack Taiwan.
They can attack Japan.
They can attack South Korea.
They can attack Russia.
They can attack India.
They could attack into Afghanistan.
They could attack Vietnam.
They could attack the Phillipines


China has a lot of options to screw with the US if they want to find somebody to attack.

My original point was that outright and ANNOUNCED economic warfare - is a good way to start a shooting war. That's what happened with Japan.

There are multiple countries waging economic warfare against the US right now. China, Mexico, and Israel come to mind. They do it all surreptitiously , without really "declaring" anything. And we have just sat and taken in for DECADES. In fact a good part of our political and business establishment is so corrupt and stupid - that they HELP them.

When you REALLY want to screw with people - you don't walk up to them in a bar and punch them in the face. You start spreading a rumor that they guy you want punched in the face has AIDS. Then you spread another rumor that he slept with the local lunatics girlfriend. You shank the tires on his car. You steal his Amazon packages. While you're at work you talk him down to your co-workers, and create political problems for him. In other words - you destroy his entire life.

That way you completely destroy him and his life - without getting punched in the face.

When it comes to places like China - there's plenty that can be done to slowly but surely strangle them and screw them. It doesn't have to come down to actual war. But it can't be done "openly" - it has to be done in a way that looks like you weren't actually trying to screw them over.
 
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