The pistol carbine 9mm - Novelty or purpose

M1911

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on one hand, the ammo cost is a positive.
on the other hand, you are shooting pistol ammo thru a rifle....the ballistics will be awful, with the bullets hitting the dirt 100 yards out.
9 mm FMJ with a 25 yard zero will have a 9” drop at 100 yards.
 
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How awful could ballistics be within your home? My bed to other side of house is certainly not even close to 100 yards. Distances over that is like sniper territory for my application. 😏
 

M1911

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I think an M1 Carbine is what you're looking for. Has the equivalent energy of a .357 magnum fired from a pistol close up.... and that is at 100 yards.
I had a couple of Ruger PC carbines but eventually sold them because I personally prefer m1 carbine for the purposes of a pistol caliber carbine. That said,
the new Ruger 9mm carbine is pretty sweet.
The other thing I’ll point out is that I think you need to be able to use a flashlight with your defensive gun. For a pistol, if you don’t have a weapon mounted light (or don’t like them), you can hold your flashlight in your support hand and still shoot (albeit slower and with less accuracy). However, it isn’t really feasible to hold onto a flashlight while also using two hands to shoot your PCC. So a gun like the M1 carbine is handicapped in these situations.

A more kinder carbine like the Ruger PCC gives you better flashlight mounting options.
 
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Called a reputable LGS today. Asked several questions about an AR9 manufacturer that I had on my list of PCC options to consider. Sad to say, they are no longer carrying it— too many problems associated with this particular manufacturer. Bummer.

Looks like my options are being narrowed down to the CZ and Ruger as folks in this thread are recommending. The search continues.
 

M1911

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Called a reputable LGS today. Asked several questions about an AR9 manufacturer that I had on my list of PCC options to consider. Sad to say, they are no longer carrying it— too many problems associated with this particular manufacturer. Bummer.

Looks like my options are being narrowed down to the CZ and Ruger as folks in this thread are recommending. The search continues.
I bet the JP Rifles AR9 works quite well. Not cheap, though.
 

Varmint

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The other thing I’ll point out is that I think you need to be able to use a flashlight with your defensive gun. For a pistol, if you don’t have a weapon mounted light (or don’t like them), you can hold your flashlight in your support hand and still shoot (albeit slower and with less accuracy). However, it isn’t really feasible to hold onto a flashlight while also using two hands to shoot your PCC. So a gun like the M1 carbine is handicapped in these situations.

A more kinder carbine like the Ruger PCC gives you better flashlight mounting options.
So duct tape a light to your M1.
 

92G

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we are living in the hayday of PCCs although come next ammo craze when 9mm triples in price the nobody will be shooting these 9mm carbines. while fun to shoot the longer barrel pushes most expanding 9mm projectiles well above their optimal velocities. many of them "over-expand" and essentially blow apart. if the intended purpose is defensive use then one has to consider these effects of excessive velocity. I suppose it's another area where the non-expanding options like Lehigh's full copper projectiles really shine. that or one has to stick with FMJ and just rely on the crazy high velocity to work its magic.

for a blowback design the hammer spring plays a role in slowing down bolt opening and rearward travel. lowering the hammer spring strength, while improving the trigger, generates some risk of early unlocking particularly if one decides to run higher pressured ammo. it also increases likelihood of light strikes. if i were dropping the hammer spring weights on such a design would confirm ignition on something like berdan primed ammo (e.g. Wolf, Tulammo) to ensure that one isn't operating close to the limit for ignition.
 
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citoriguy

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we are living in the hayday of PCCs although come next ammo craze when 9mm triples in price the nobody will be shooting these 9mm carbines. while fun to shoot the longer barrel pushes most expanding 9mm projectiles well above their optimal velocities. many of them "over-expand" and essentially blow apart. if the intended purpose is defensive use then one has to consider these effects of excessive velocity. I suppose it's another area where the non-expanding options like Lehigh's full copper projectiles really shine. that or one has to stick with FMJ and just rely on the crazy high velocity to work its magic.
I get what you’re saying, but anything hitting you at ~1,000fps isn’t going to tickle.
 

Rob Boudrie

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I use a JP 9mm PCC with a Rock River 9x19 mag well adapter. Works great, and uses the readily available UZI mags once an extra mag catch notch has been machined. In an ideal world I'd have the native Glock JP lower and a s-load of Glock 33 mags, but my solution solved the mag and lower availability problem. I have the ta stamp on a Form 1 to make a second one an SBR.

The only time the thing jams is when I am running 36+ round in a mag (UZZI 32 w/Taylor Freelance extenstion) and the Blazer FMJ collapses into itself for lack of a strong crimp. FMJ is a bit of a misnomer because the Blazer 9x19 sold as FMJ is really plated, not jacketed (but the plating is thicker than the usual copper wash). It's a fun gun and totally reliable if I don't use a fully loaded extension mag, and I expect it would be 100% at the full 42 rounds if I have better crimped ammo. But, I got an incredible deal on the Blazer stuff and could not resist the temptation to shoot cheap.
 

m_n_x

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we are living in the hayday of PCCs although come next ammo craze when 9mm triples in price the nobody will be shooting these 9mm carbines. while fun to shoot the longer barrel pushes most expanding 9mm projectiles well above their optimal velocities. many of them "over-expand" and essentially blow apart. if the intended purpose is defensive use then one has to consider these effects of excessive velocity. I suppose it's another area where the non-expanding options like Lehigh's full copper projectiles really shine. that or one has to stick with FMJ and just rely on the crazy high velocity to work its magic.



for a blowback design the hammer spring plays a role in slowing down bolt opening and rearward travel. lowering the hammer spring strength, while improving the trigger, generates some risk of early unlocking particularly if one decides to run higher pressured ammo. it also increases likelihood of light strikes. if i were dropping the hammer spring weights on such a design would confirm ignition on something like berdan primed ammo (e.g. Wolf, Tulammo) to ensure that one isn't operating close to the limit for ignition.
I would expect you're right. This kit doesn't touch the hammer spring, just the disconnector and trigger springs. The force of the hammer is unaffected.
 

frenchman

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So, let me get this straight.... Some people here argue that it's a good choice for HD because you can shorten the barrel to 4-8 inches. So basically, you'll have a G19 with a shoulder thing that goes up. Doesn't sound very smart to me. Why not just go with a G19 then? The whole friggin point of a carbine is to surpass a pistol in terms of power. If I want a short HD rifle or carbine, I'll go with a 8.5" blackout pistol. The only valid argument for a PCC IMO is inexpensive plinking suppressed.
 

M1911

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So, let me get this straight.... Some people here argue that it's a good choice for HD because you can shorten the barrel to 4-8 inches. So basically, you'll have a G19 with a shoulder thing that goes up. Doesn't sound very smart to me. Why not just go with a G19 then? The whole friggin point of a carbine is to surpass a pistol in terms of power. If I want a short HD rifle or carbine, I'll go with a 8.5" blackout pistol. The only valid argument for a PCC IMO is inexpensive plinking suppressed.
A short carbine is easier to shoot accurately than a pistol. The difference in ballistics between a 9mm pistol and a 16” barrel on a 9mm carbine is minimal.
 

frenchman

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A short carbine is easier to shoot accurately than a pistol. The difference in ballistics between a 9mm pistol and a 16” barrel on a 9mm carbine is minimal.
If you can't shoot a pistol at "in house" distances accurately enough to hit a bad guy with a full mag, you don't need a PCC, you need a few cases of practice ammo. The difference in ballistics between a 5" carbine and a 5" pistol is exactly zero. If you use a 16" PCC for home defense instead of a 16" 5.56 or 7.62, you're not using the best tool for the job. Period.
 

PappyM3

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If you can't shoot a pistol at "in house" distances accurately enough to hit a bad guy with a full mag, you don't need a PCC, you need a few cases of practice ammo. The difference in ballistics between a 5" carbine and a 5" pistol is exactly zero. If you use a 16" PCC for home defense instead of a 16" 5.56 or 7.62, you're not using the best tool for the job. Period.

The shoulder thing that goes up is helpful, even if you’re an above average pistol shot. Sure, maybe it has limited benefit for a really good pistol shooter. But your normal guy who’s still fairly good at a pistol, will have more accurate shot placement and much faster, accurate, follow up shots. The benefit for your average shooter who rarely trains is going to be even greater still. Oh, and there’s also the benefit of being able to use a static optic that doesn’t move around with a pistol slide, forcing you to reacquire sight picture.

Bottom line, if you don’t need to conceal the weapon, it’s better to have a stock. There are real, tangible benefits that will be seen unless you practice relentlessly with a pistol to the point of being a guru.
 

M1911

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If you can't shoot a pistol at "in house" distances accurately enough to hit a bad guy with a full mag, you don't need a PCC, you need a few cases of practice ammo. The difference in ballistics between a 5" carbine and a 5" pistol is exactly zero. If you use a 16" PCC for home defense instead of a 16" 5.56 or 7.62, you're not using the best tool for the job. Period.
You think a 7.62 rifle is “the best tool for the job” for home defense?
 

frenchman

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And which one of those things can you not do with a rifle caliber pistol?

@1911: you do realize that 7.62x35 or 7.62x39 are out there, don't you?
 
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Period, really? No. PCC is easier to shoot well, better to hang a light, red dot etc. on, adequate ballistics, less risk of overpenetration, much less blast, flash, and noise, especially indoors. Inexpensive to shoot and FUN to shoot. It's the logical choice for most home defense scenarios.

I've had to quick grab a gun and shoot foxes, etc. many times without time to put ear protection in. Still no tinnitus. I doubt I'd be able to say that if I'd used a rifle.
 

frenchman

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You think a 7.62 rifle is “the best tool for the job” for home defense?
Period, really? No. PCC is easier to shoot well, better to hang a light, red dot etc. on, adequate ballistics, less risk of overpenetration, much less blast, flash, and noise, especially indoors. Inexpensive to shoot and FUN to shoot. It's the logical choice for most home defense scenarios.

I've had to quick grab a gun and shoot foxes, etc. many times without time to put ear protection in. Still no tinnitus. I doubt I'd be able to say that if I'd used a rifle.
So, a PCC is easier to shoot than a 300 blackout with a short barrel? it is easier to accessorize than a standard AR handguard with picatinny, Mlok or keymod? 9mm zips through drywall just as well as 556, if not better. Flash? Even a fakeass can gets rid of that, or a regular flash hider might do. Noise? I trade a few days of being deaf for a dead guy or two, no problem. Fun to shoot? Like, more fun than shooting 556 or 300 blackout?
Lastly, I am confident that I've never had a fox in my house. And yea, PERIOD.
Before anyone takes a trip to poopy pants central, the last sentence was in jest.
 

PappyM3

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So, a PCC is easier to shoot than a 300 blackout with a short barrel? it is easier to accessorize than a standard AR handguard with picatinny, Mlok or keymod? 9mm zips through drywall just as well as 556, if not better. Flash? Even a fakeass can gets rid of that, or a regular flash hider might do. Noise? I trade a few days of being deaf for a dead guy or two, no problem.
300blk in an 8” barrel with subsonics might have blast and concussion similar to a PCC, I don’t know. But I do know its ballistics would be pretty much the same as a PCC in house distances.

The rest of your post is reaching at straws. Even vintage PCCs are readily accessorizable. And yes, excessive noise and flash due to a gunfight in a house is something I’d like to minimize around my family. I’ve had enough of 5.56 being shot in really tight quarters. Obviously defense trumps loud noises, but you can still successfully defend with a pistol caliber inside a house. On top of that, stocks help in aiming and control, particularly during stressful situations. Where does that Venn diagram of stocks and pistol calibers intersect? PCCs.
 
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