The pistol carbine 9mm - Novelty or purpose

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2 particular models that have caught my attention recently. The Scorpion EVO S1 or the JRC Just Right Carbine AR style. Both in 9mm format. For home defense and range practice , help me decide.

This platform top of mind for purposes mentioned above due to ammo $$$, ammo availability, and shootability. Should I be looking at other platforms.
 

PappyM3

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I don’t have experience with either of those particular PCCs.

But, a PCC in general is a fine home defense weapon. Sure, a 5.56 AR has better terminal ballistics, but it really sucks to shoot without earpro in confined spaces (my tinnitus agrees). When your life or your families lives are on the line, the noise/concussion doesn’t matter as much as during training, but it’s still something to consider. And well-placed 9mm hollow points at house-room distances are going to be very lethal. The PCC is going to be easier to get quick/well-placed shots than a pistol.

A caveat though, is that I’d recommend SBRing it if you have tight quarters in your house. I personally prefer a pistol for my home, as I would need a very short carbine to comfortably employ in my house. I may reconsider when I get some tax stamp forms submitted.
 

johnnymac101

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I've been thinking about PCC for a while- like the option to play IDPA games with it too. I was looking at AR9, SIG, Scorpion and the new Ruger PCC, but for now I'll stick with my Glock lower on a Mech-Tech upper.
My club is restrictive with "rifles" on the pistol range and shooting out to 50 yds just doesn't feel as fun. The Glock Monster is pretty damn accurate with a simple red dot!
However, I wouldn't turn away an MP5!
 

bfm

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It fills a middle spot. As a long gun most people will be more accurate with it than a pistol. Easier to mount a reddot and a light to as well as a sling. In the middle of the night I would not put on a holster, but I would slide the sling over, so if I need my hands I do not have to put the weapon down somewhere. Personally, I am fine with an MSR for home defense, but my wife, and the last one too, did not like working with rifle calibers, so PCCs it is. I went with Beretta CX4s as they are very compact and can be set up for left hand, like my wife. If you SBR them, they are very handy indoors.
 

ReluctantDecoy

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9mm is considered legit for a hand gun for self defense, so that notion really shouldn't change for a PCC unless you're talking about shooting at distances greater than 9mm performance reliability, at which point I'd probably advise not taking the shot to begin with. Plus, while I'm admittedly not a best shot past 15 feet with a pistol (I'll blame my cross eye dominance, but in reality, I just kind of suck with pistols), my 9mm SBR is laser-like out to 50+ feet free hand.
 

moojpg2

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Most people are not that skilled with a handgun, in the grand scheme of things, whether they like to admit it or not. PCC is a lot easier to make hits with for many people, especially for competition. A pcc is not a rifle though and cannot take the place of a rifle. PCC can't be carried like a handgun either. For me, PCC is useless unless it's for a specific class of competition or for specific training/use on a pistol caliber only range, anywhere else I'd use a PCC I could just use a rifle and the rifle will do things better anyway.
 
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From what I’ve been reading PCC is a solid choice at 50 yards and in. For a home defense platform, I cannot imagine needing anything past the 50.

My home range will allow all most pistol calibers, so this seems like an ideal choice in terms of training.

Is there something that I am not taking into consideration?
 

citoriguy

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I have a Colt AR-9 and a Sig MPX, and they are fun to shoot in a different way than my other ARs. Follow up shots are incredibly easy since there’s very little recoil. I put a Vortex Spitfire on one, and a Strikefire II with a magnifier on the other and I can do 50 yards all day long.
 

ReluctantDecoy

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Most people are not that skilled with a handgun, in the grand scheme of things, whether they like to admit it or not. PCC is a lot easier to make hits with for many people, especially for competition. A pcc is not a rifle though and cannot take the place of a rifle. PCC can't be carried like a handgun either. For me, PCC is useless unless it's for a specific class of competition or for specific training/use on a pistol caliber only range, anywhere else I'd use a PCC I could just use a rifle and the rifle will do things better anyway.
lol...that would be me, but I do admit it.

OP did say home defense and range use, so I think a PCC would fit those roles. Just as effective as a 9mm pistol for home defense. Possibly more so if you have an SBR, in the sense that it will be almost as maneuverable, but faster/more accurate than most pistols for many people. For the range, they are a joy. Cheap practice, and this can even be set up similar to a rifle for controls if you go AR9.
 
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Yeah for the price of the Scorpion I can get almost 2 of the AR9 types. Is it worth the cost? The thing is the Scorpion was always intended/designed as a 9mm PCC, the JRC is retrofitting a popular style to a particular caliber. At least this is what I’ve been told. Tough choice.
 

kimber le

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2 particular models that have caught my attention recently. The Scorpion EVO S1 or the JRC Just Right Carbine AR style. Both in 9mm format. For home defense and range practice , help me decide.

This platform top of mind for purposes mentioned above due to ammo $$$, ammo availability, and shootability. Should I be looking at other platforms.
Just bought the Scorpion. Love it. Accurate, reliable, and tons of fun !
 

hminsky

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I think an M1 Carbine is what you're looking for. Has the equivalent energy of a .357 magnum fired from a pistol close up.... and that is at 100 yards.
I had a couple of Ruger PC carbines but eventually sold them because I personally prefer m1 carbine for the purposes of a pistol caliber carbine. That said,
the new Ruger 9mm carbine is pretty sweet.
 

bfm

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Mark my words: Repeal NFA and other garbage laws, everybody would be sporting suppressed MP5’s for home defense, cuz it’s not just about clipping bad guys, it’s about clipping bad guys while looking good!

That is a lot of 12 gauge for guys that don't seem to be carrying shotguns. Which makes me wonder even more about the empty loops.
 

kimber le

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Back in the day, Some of the guys carried short barreled 12 gauges behind their backs, mostly for breaching.
 

FiremanBob

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I look at the PCCs with very short barrels and think that if I had that short a barrel, I want to wear the firearm on my belt; i.e. I'd rather have a pistol. I look at the Kriss, the Scorpion and the PTR and think that if I have to carry such a large weapon it better be full auto. After all, these things were originally modeled after sub guns. But realistically:

Compared to a handgun, the PCC "pistols" are easier to shoot accurately for a unskilled shooter especially at a high rate of fire, and easier to handle 30-rd magazines.
Compared to a 16" rifle, they are easier to store and more maneuverable in tight quarters.
They are also a lot of fun to shoot. It's a total hoot to ring steel at 100 yds with such a small firearm.
 

M1911

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I think an M1 Carbine is what you're looking for. Has the equivalent energy of a .357 magnum fired from a pistol close up.... and that is at 100 yards.
I had a couple of Ruger PC carbines but eventually sold them because I personally prefer m1 carbine for the purposes of a pistol caliber carbine. That said,
the new Ruger 9mm carbine is pretty sweet.
M1 carbines tend to be somewhat unreliable by modern standards.
 

PappyM3

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From what I’ve been reading PCC is a solid choice at 50 yards and in. For a home defense platform, I cannot imagine needing anything past the 50.

My home range will allow all most pistol calibers, so this seems like an ideal choice in terms of training.

Is there something that I am not taking into consideration?
You’re pretty much on point. Though, if I had to engage anybody beyond room distances, I’d go with a rifle caliber. Pistol caliber is going to be 10 yards and in for me if I have a choice. 25 yards at a stretch.

There are people in this thread saying that if hey have a rifle/carbine, it’s going to be chambered in a rifle round. Fair enough, but a PCC can be shortened to something crazy like a 4-8” barrel and still have minimal noise/concussion. The same can’t be said for a rifle round. All those SWAT teams that switched to 5.56 from their 9mm carbines have good earpro. You waking up in the middle of the night will not.
It’s all about trade space and compromise. Some prefer the better terminal ballistics of rifle rounds and don’t care about compactness or noise/concussion.
 
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M1 carbines tend to be somewhat unreliable by modern standards.
This! I won one of the new Auto Ordnance M1 Carbines in a GOAL raffle a few years back. Light, handy, fun rifle. But I'd be damned if it would run through more than a magazine or two without jamming. I sold it to someone here on NES, and built an AR carbine that's 100% reliable. It has never once failed to fire or eject, after many rounds through it. That gun is what's hanging on the wall at my bedside. Mags for the M1 carbine were expensive, as is the ammo, which you can only get in fmj and soft point, and seemily only from only a few makers.

Lots more options when it comes to an AR.
 

PappyM3

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M1 carbines tend to be somewhat unreliable by modern standards.
Yup. My recently acquired 1944 M1 Carbine has been extremely reliable with an array of ammo(including Underwood 85gr Xtreme Cavitator). The first thing I did though was upgrade springs to Wolff springs, for both the gun and the mags. But I still wouldn’t trust it for home defense since I have other options available. Bottom line is that at home distances, modern carbines do just about everything better.
 

PappyM3

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Mags for the M1 carbine were expensive, as is the ammo, which you can only get in fmj and soft point, and seemily only from only a few makers.
...
Plus the mags are not very durable/resilient. But for ammo, you can get Underwood/Lehigh 85gr xtreme cavitator which has fantastic terminal ballistics.
 

M1911

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You’re pretty much on point. Though, if I had to engage anybody beyond room distances, I’d go with a rifle caliber. Pistol caliber is going to be 10 yards and in for me if I have a choice. 25 yards at a stretch.
A PCC will have the same energy at 25 yards as at 10 yards, and accuracy will be fine out beyond 50 yards. So I don’t understand your reasoning.
 

PappyM3

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A PCC will have the same energy at 25 yards as at 10 yards, and accuracy will be fine out beyond 50 yards. So I don’t understand your reasoning.
My reasoning is because when I get past 10 yards, my threat environment would likely be different and the downsides of a rifle would start to go away. It is less to do with a pistol caliber being less effective than it was, and more to do with the rifle caliber option becoming better than it was in tight quarters. My default is to use rifles until their negatives outweigh their positives, rather than defaulting to pistols until their negatives outweigh their positives.

I do agree that the terminal ballistics of 9mm at 25 yards would still be fine. But it’s in a gray zone where my trade-offs switch. I probably should have elaborated in my post.
 
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Plus the mags are not very durable/resilient. But for ammo, you can get Underwood/Lehigh 85gr xtreme cavitator which has fantastic terminal ballistics.
I just looked up that ammo, and it's $32.50 to $32.99 at the few places I saw it. For twenty rounds. Sorry but $1.65/rd is ridiculously expensive. At least for a range day / training. For actual home defense purposes nothing is "too" expensive, but that's just silly, for what it is.
 
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Lots more options when it comes to an AR.
And this is the reason I am shying away from the AR-9 PCC platform. Might just be fluke but been watching online videos of these things jamming, and happens among various manufacturers. Feeling a bit more confident in a PCC where the caliber is specific to the platform, hence the Scorpion. Just having a hard time swallowing the cost BUT if it’s as reliable as I’ve seen I may just do it.
 
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