The Mauser Shuffle - Rock On with a Rock-Ola M1 carbine

[majspud]

I have sold/traded four of my Mausers to start reducing that part of my collection to the core representation of the 10 WW2 makers, and a couple of interesting odds and ends, from 20 to about 14. I'm planning of restoring some of the pieces lost in the "Great Purge of 2017" and re-balance my collection.

The first one came today. To place my RIA 1963 rebuild/boxed/papered Inland M1 Carbine, as a partial trade, I now have a shooter Grade Rock-Ola. Serial number 1685215 dates this one to the end of the first run 11/42-11/43 of 1762519. This is in sync with the Underwood barrel date of 6/43. The Rock-Ola wears a LW stock and E-U handguard, both for Underwood. Recoil plate is RIA, bayonet lug is Inland, rear sight is Hammerhill, and bolt and trigger assembly are Winchester. Bore is very good. Came with pouch, oiler, one mag. Added sling from my stash, MRT1951, a couple more mags, and another pouch as the one it came with was stretched for a righty, not a lefty. Illegible import mark on left of barrel - doens't look like Blue Sky.

Did I say it was a Rock-Ola?

I should have a nice 1862 M61 Springfield on the way this week, and in trade with my friend, I have a 1964 DCM Remington 03A3 with box and papers from March of 1943 with a RRA through repair and replacement type 11 stock with cross bolts.

Orion is out of bolt rebuild kits at the moment. I could always order the plunger/spring and extractor/spring separately, but don't feel like getting into that right now.

Did I say it was a ROCK-OLA?

t

 

[daekken]

Very nice. Is the "Avery" on the pouch the manufacturer?

 

[majspud]

Yes.

t

 

[mac1911]

Nice. I have a rockola also I have yet taken the time to catalog the parts. its a ok shooter. When my eyes are doing well I can put the rounds into the SR1 bull with my reloads. Aquila is a close 2nd.

 

[daekken]

A carbine is on "the list" eventually. Mauser is still next and I've been debating doing a pistol or two since I don't have any milsurp/C&R pistols. I enjoy pistols a lot less, though. This is years down the road, though...

If I could have my pick, I'd choose IBM, I think.

All the manufacturers are more or less equal in terms of function, etc., I presume?

 

[majspud]

Well, that was !$@?%&* short. Turns out there was a problem with the Mauser and he wants the carbine and his $$ back. Off to the post office.

I'll have to talk to my friend about the Mauser; may be a stock mismatch with a sanded serial number inside. I never took it apart.

when it rains, it....

t

 

[mac1911]

Well, that was !$@?%&* short. Turns out there was a problem with the Mauser and he wants the carbine and his $$ back. Off to the post office.

I'll have to talk to my friend about the Mauser; may be a stock mismatch with a sanded serial number inside. I never took it apart.

when it rains, it....

t

that sucks...

 

[mac1911]

A carbine is on "the list" eventually. Mauser is still next and I've been debating doing a pistol or two since I don't have any milsurp/C&R pistols. I enjoy pistols a lot less, though. This is years down the road, though...

If I could have my pick, I'd choose IBM, I think.

All the manufacturers are more or less equal in terms of function, etc., I presume?

yes all function the same and all seem to share the same common problems. they are fun to have and cool to be in your collection but one of those items i feel you best know a shit ton about them or you will get burned if buying for collecting.
My friend asked me to check out an original Inland a few weeks ago. Yup brand new Inland right out of the box. He had no clue they where reproducing carbines at all. https://www.inland-mfg.com/Inland-Carbines/M1-1945.html

 

[daekken]

Well, that was !$@?%&* short. Turns out there was a problem with the Mauser and he wants the carbine and his $$ back. Off to the post office.

I'll have to talk to my friend about the Mauser; may be a stock mismatch with a sanded serial number inside. I never took it apart.

when it rains, it....

t

Sorry to hear that, ouch.

yes all function the same and all seem to share the same common problems. they are fun to have and cool to be in your collection but one of those items i feel you best know a shit ton about them or you will get burned if buying for collecting.
My friend asked me to check out an original Inland a few weeks ago. Yup brand new Inland right out of the box. He had no clue they where reproducing carbines at all. https://www.inland-mfg.com/Inland-Carbines/M1-1945.html

I try to research stuff extensively before getting serious about buying something. The carbines seem quite popular and high demand makes finding a good deal tough. There are a lot of items I'd be more interested in than the carbine, but it would be nice to at least shoot one someday if nothing else.

 

[majspud]

I was trying to preserve my as issued March 1944 IBM. Guess I just have to shoot it.

T

 

[76Too]

I just can't...I don't have any love for those ugly little guns ;D

it looks like my marlin 60 but with a detachable magazine!

but as they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder...so if it floats your boat, by all means have at it! i really do enjoy looking at all of your rifles, militaria and antiques, because it's all as is/as was/restored to the letter of the day that it rolled off the production line. it's great to see others with the same level of passion and willingness to be stewards of history.

 

[majspud]

Here's the IBM; late production, March, 1944. Production ended April, 1944. Some had begun to be fitted with the new rear sight, but close inspection shows two sets of stake marks, so this one probably had a flip sight originally. Everything else is IBM, late round bolt, push button safety, no bayonet lug. Experimental Engineer's holster that mounted on the belt.

t

 

[majspud]

Took the IBM and the '55 Pontiac to the range. 50 yards, front elbow on the table. New box of Aguila. Forgot why I don't shoot this one much besides being a safe queen - every other case hit me in the head and my hat was in the car. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I brought the carbine to the range in the Engineer's holster. Using a rubber band I wrapped it around my head. By the time I was done there were 20 cases on the bench. Group was stringy, but I didn't bring a scope and I think it was set for 100 yards so I wound up aiming a little low. The one left shot was the first shot with the case hitting me in the head.

Such a fun little rifle. I may have something sold soon and I'll see if I can get that Rock-Ola back.

 

[daekken]

Very fitting to engineer yourself some head protection. The recoil is akin to a 357mag out of a carbine, I presume?

 

[browncoat]

Very fitting to engineer yourself some head protection. The recoil is akin to a 357mag out of a carbine, I presume?

Maybe a little less, depending on loads since it's a lighter bullet.

 

[mac1911]

Very fitting to engineer yourself some head protection. The recoil is akin to a 357mag out of a carbine, I presume?

think more like 9mm carbine

 

[daekken]

Maybe a little less, depending on loads since it's a lighter bullet.

think more like 9mm carbine

I can see why some of the reports I recall from troops (I think it was during Korea) complained that they were underpowered.
Not quite 30-06 performance.

 

[browncoat]

I can see why some of the reports I recall from troops (I think it was during Korea) complained that they were underpowered.
Not quite 30-06 performance.

It was designed for defense, not offense, and it seems to me it is up to that task.

 

[majspud]

Pic flipped.

.30 carbine: 110 grain FMJ, 1990fps, 967ft/lbs (Aguila)
9mm Luger: 115 grains 9mm FMJ, 1190 fps, 362ft/lb (WWB)

.30 carbine round had 267% more energy than 9mm Luger

So the .30 carbine round did more damage than the 9mm Parabellum - and you get some range out of it. Try getting the group I got with a MP40 or P38. Before you cry foul with the MP40, the M2 select fire came out in 1944.

For defense is right - the thought was to replace the .45 pistol for these, rear areas, truck drivers, etc., and arm those who could otherwise not carry the full size Garand due to physical limitations (me!).

t

 

[mac1911]

I can see why some of the reports I recall from troops (I think it was during Korea) complained that they were underpowered.
Not quite 30-06 performance.

Seems the carbine was asked to do more than intended. In Korea they where put into offensive positions at ranges beyond its capabilities.
You don't here a lot of complaints From WWII about the carbine?
My great uncle (only wwII vet to live long enough for me to meet) said he preferred the carbine when they went into villages although he said the garand was the perfect rifle of its time.
Only thing he didn't like about anything less than 30-06 is the SOB's didn't go down and die fast enough.

 

[mac1911]

Pic flipped.

.30 carbine: 110 grain FMJ, 1990fps, 967ft/lbs (Aguila)
9mm Luger: 115 grains 9mm FMJ, 1190 fps, 362ft/lb (WWB)

.30 carbine round had 267% more energy than 9mm Luger

So the .30 carbine round did more damage than the 9mm Parabellum - and you get some range out of it. Try getting the group I got with a MP40 or P38. Before you cry foul with the MP40, the M2 select fire came out in 1944.

For defense is right - the thought was to replace the .45 pistol for these, rear areas, truck drivers, etc., and arm those who could otherwise not carry the full size Garand due to physical limitations (me!).

t

More energy for sure but if you shoot a Hi Point carbine in 9mm it's about what the carbine feels like.
The carbine is not very effective at distance. With a good to go accuracy requirement out of the arsenals of more than 10 MOA anything beyond 50 yards you had to be a very good shot.

Kuhnhausen manual on the M1 Carbine. There was a page that discussed ordinance specifications for targeting the M1 (page 107). The specification call for the rifle in semi-auto mode to be able to place 5 of 7 consecutive shots within a 4" wide by 3.75" high test target at 25 yds. and place 5 of 7 consecutive shots within a 16" wide by 12" high test target at 100 yds......something like that?

when you look into the good enough for GI specifications for the service rifles/carbines/pistols you start to see why the targets at the CMP and Nationals are as big as they are.

I dont know if my picture of the carbine target is still on NES because of the photobucket BS but its out there.

 

[majspud]

"...Reunited and it feels so good..."

Well, we're back together again. Seller changed his mind as he needed funds for another purchase. While waiting for it, I got three Rock-Ola magazines and a cheap Japanese made post-war bayonet in a M8A1 scabbard. I'll get a nicer blade some day - good enough burglar deterrent for now. I didn't mean to get three magazines; I had an auction on eBay for one and GunBroker for two assuming I'd get one but I got both. Go figure.

Got the yellow slip at the house. Called the PO and the carrier was a couple blocks away. I just caught her one house before she left our development. Something working out in my favor that was that close is a rarity.

Range Report to follow. Hopefully the Rock-Ola won't rock my head with spent cases.

t

 

[majspud]

Worst shooting carbine I've ever had. Shoots way right, and still right with the rear sight all the way right. The center hits were aimed on the left edge. May have to get the rear sight rear re-staked. I'll try bore sighting it at home. Elevation at 50 was right on. 50 yards, box of Aguila, 49F and 50mph winds. Chilly.

T

 

[majspud]

Bought batteries on the way home for the laser sight. Aimed at a beam in the ceiling 15 feet away and adjusted the rear sight until the dot disappeared behind the front sight. Rear sight was 2 notches left of center. I'll try again at 25 yards another day.

t

 

[mac1911]

Bought batteries on the way home for the laser sight. Aimed at a beam in the ceiling 15 feet away and adjusted the rear sight until the dot disappeared behind the front sight. Rear sight was 2 notches left of center. I'll try again at 25 yards another day.

t

what laser sight are you using... a chamber insert or the universal muzzle stuffer one?

 

[majspud]

Muzzle stuffer. GunBoards said to move the rear sight left; I thought it was FORS....front-opposite/rear-same.

t

 

[mac1911]

Muzzle stuffer. GunBoards said to move the rear sight left; I thought it was FORS....front-opposite/rear-same.

t

if you move the rear sight left your impact goes to the left. Bore lites only get you close.
Your carbine is hitting to the right you must move rear sight to left. you can move the rear base to left also. honestly though if your base is nice and tight don't mess with it.

over all not bad toss out that low right flyer and your right there with expected accuracy of a carbine. your about 5" off your point of aim to the center of the group.
when you where at the range you should have came about 8-10 clicks LEFT to center that group up

if you go by this 25 yard target your accuracy is there but you would fil the "targeting" test, Also see how they make the dotted line almost square this allows more area for the bullet impacts to increase its chance of passing. basically a 3.5" group at 25 yards is good to go to GI

 

[majspud]

It's worse than that. I shot 45 rounds; nearly 30 rounds are off paper.

t

 

[mac1911]

It's worse than that. I shot 45 rounds; nearly 30 rounds are off paper.

t

Tim if what you wrote is what you did of course you shot off the paper to the right.... below you say. To the right then WAY right with rear sight to the Right
We have all have these days. Try again tomorrow.

Worst shooting carbine I've ever had. Shoots way right, and still right with the rear sight all the way right. The center hits were aimed on the left edge. May have to get the rear sight rear re-staked. I'll try bore sighting it at home. Elevation at 50 was right on. 50 yards, box of Aguila, 49F and 50mph winds. Chilly.

 

[majspud]

Well the Rock-Ola sang a sweet song today. Got to the range 30 minutes before closing. 56F, howling wind again, 25 yards, new Aguila. Started on the left target; time for 2 magazines. Would you believe it, I moved it the wrong way again, but still a good group. Moved the sight to the other side, and added one more click after the first 4. After. Later, I added one more for good measure. I have a good shooter, and the song doesn't hit me in the head - all brass ejected between 3-4:00.


T