The Liberty Training Rifle

[dwarven1]

The Liberty Training Rifle (first post modified 10/8/2011)

Well, I know that this is a cross-post, but I feel that it belongs here in the Appleseed forum as well as in JonJ's 10/22 Goodness thread. (Please don't send me to the Outer Darkness with Capt Walt and Jellyfish for cross-posting!)

This is excerpted from Nickle's post on building a Liberty Training Rifle out of a Ruger 10/22 from www.appleseedinfo.org from this thread with some modifications by me after building several of these things and seeing how they perform in the real world.

Well, here's what I did (or will do, in the case of a couple items), the cost of the items, and this is a decent priced, working setup. All prices are retail. They are not special or sale prices, nor are they group buy prices. These are 24/7/365 retail prices.

First, I started with Ruger 10/22 Carbines.

Add Tech Sights.
http://www.tech-sights.com/ruger3.htm $59.00
Add DPMS Rapidex knob, for ease of adjusting (optional but highly recommended).
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=353544 $7.99

Install sling swivels studs, detachable swivels and a USGI M1 Garand type sling.
Stud & swivel set: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=705310 $9.49
Sling: ="http://store.rwvaappleseed.com/page13.html $14.50

These can be substituted if you can't find the Uncle Mike's above:
Studs: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=366960 $2.59
Swivels: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/13...e-super-sling-swivel-set?cm_vc=ProductFinding $8.99 - remember to select 1-1/4" swivels!

Add extended mag release (not needed if you have the polymer trigger group 10/22)
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=662086 $5.49

Replace bolt release and hammer (or rework existing ones). I reworked mine. Not for the inexperienced. Note that the polymer trigger group has a different hammer (maybe the sear, too - not sure) and please double-check to be sure that you're ordering the right parts!
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=145851 $44.99
If you're happy with your trigger, then at the very least replace the bolt release (or rework yours. It's not very hard - Ross)
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=688102 11.99 (this is one of the BEST things you can do to your 10/22!)

Add a BoreSnake, sight adjusting tool and spare mags.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=260083 $13.99
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=260328 $9.79
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=252579 $16.99 each. I recommend at LEAST 4 of them as Ruger is only shipping one mag with the rifles now.

My comments after [STRIKE="way too many"]dozens[/STRIKE] way too many Appleseed Shoots and building 6 LTRs:

1: You want FIVE 10-round mags total. Not two 25 rounders (they get in the way when you're shooting prone, as do the back-to-back magazine clips) but 5 10 rounders. 'Cause Northeastern Appleseed Instructors are, by and large, HUGE believers in the 40-shot rapid fire AQT - 40 rounds in 4 minutes. You do NOT have time to reload mags during that. Plus, the fifth mag is VERY useful if you have a malfunction of any sort - you don't have to fumble with reloading a mag when that 4 minute time limit is bearing down on you. You've got extra rounds right there.

2: there is a TON of good information on working on the 10/22 action on www.rimfirecentral.com. Info on how to lighten up the trigger yourself, info on how to make your own auto bolt release, etc. Use that site; it's a great reference.

3: You can find lots of cheap factory parts for the 10/22 on eBay. People buy new barrels, stocks, etc, and their first thought is "Gee, let me sell it!". That's to your benefit. I picked up a stock in good shape for about $30 total so I could experiment on cutting it down for a shorter length of pull since I'm a short guy. Worked great, and if I'd screwed it up, I could just have put my old stock back on; no harm, no foul.

4: Shooter's Ridge QD sling swivels suck; they do not hold up under usage. Use Uncle Mike's swivels instead - they are much more sturdy.The Outdoor Connection Talon are OK but I'm not terribly enamored of the squared off rings.They do, however, hold up far better than the Shooter's Ridge crap.

5: Volquartsen Exact Edge extractors are a Good Thing - about 700 rounds through two LTRs now, and NO more stovepipes. - update - another several hundred rounds downrange and NO stovepipes. For $12.99, this is the BEST thing you can do to cure your extraction woes.

6: Carry a large screwdriver to keep your action take down screw tight, a small one to keep your Tech-Sights rear sight tight, a 5/64" Allen wrench to keep your front sight tight, and a 9/64" Allen wrench to take your mags apart if you need to clean them. NOTE: You need to turn the hex two and a half turns.

7: The Rapidex adjusting knob is worthwhile; just be aware you'll need a fine pin-punch to remove the old wheel and install the knob. And the recent production Tech-Sights seem to have that pin in there TIGHT.


Prices and links updated on 12/22/2014.

 

[doobie]

Got a scope mount/setup that can be used with the tech-sights? My GF uses the 10/22 and she needs the scope; and I hate taking it off and putting it back on...any suggestions?

Your links to midway have '...'s in them and don't work.

 

[dwarven1]

Here's what I did:

Got a Weaver K7 (it's an adjustable 2.5x7 scope) off of eBay for about $70 or so, and got a Weaver mount and rings.

Now, I've just decided that I'm not happy with the eye relief on it, so I'm thinking of getting a Power Custom scope mount, which looks a bit longer from what I see in the Brownells catalog.

Nickle recommends getting one of the older Weaver 1" scopes with the all-steel tube. I have to say, it's much nicer than my old cheap Tasco!

 

[edirtyfour]

The midway links seem to be broken for me...

 

[dwarven1]

Fixed 'em. Thanks for the heads-up, Nick.

 

[FPrice]

Darn you Ross! Now I have another project to work on?

I'm gonna knick-name you "C-pher Jr.".

 

[Martlet]

FYI, since the bolt release and hammer are often back ordered, you can pick up the bolt release only as a separate item.

 

[dwarven1]

There is a thread on www.rimfirecentral.com on how to make the auto bolt release by modifying your stock one. Look in the 10/22 action forum at the top sticky - you'll find a link with pictures there. It's not hard; all you need is a Dremel tool with a small grinding wheel.

And Frosty? Just you wait... I have't offered to start up a Tech-Sights group buy yet!

 

[JonJ]

I have't offered to start up a Tech-Sights group buy yet!

Good thing I haven't ordered them yet.

 

[Martlet]

Good thing I haven't ordered them yet.

I did today.

 

[Nickle]

Darn you Ross! Now I have another project to work on?

I'm gonna knick-name you "C-pher Jr.".

Nickle is who you should blame, not Ross.

I'm the one that hammered him, and Grin Reaper got me doing this project.

Scopes

I do recommend using an older steel tubed Weaver scope.

Use a decent set of rings (your choice, I like Weaver and Bushnell), and use the scope mount that comes with the rifle. The newer 10/22's use regular (not .22) rings.

Make sure you use Loc-Tite on the scope mount screws, and definitely on the Tech Sights.

And, so you know, I've got SIX 10/22's. 4 carbines with Tech Sights, an International and a Wally-World long barreled rifle, both scoped. The Wally World rifle I built for myself, though I do loan it out sometimes, and it wears a T-6 Weaver scope.

And, think of all the $$$ you'll save on ammo.

 

[FPrice]

Nickle is who you should blame, not Ross.

I think that there is enough blame to go around.

 

[dwarven1]

Well, I just called Tech-Sights and asked about a group buy. I should have an answer by late next week if they'll do it for us and what kind of pricing we can get.

 

[FPrice]

Well, I just called Tech-Sights and asked about a group buy. I should have an answer by late next week if they'll do it for us and what kind of pricing we can get.

The sound you hear is my income tax rebate flying out the window to aid in the country's economic recovery.

 

[Nickle]

Frosty, my Income Tax refund is going to buying more .22 rifles, so don't feel bad.

A couple of Crickets are on the agenda.

 

[edirtyfour]

I'd be interested in a group buy on tech sights - I'm planning on picking up another 10/22. I'm toying with the idea of getting one of the Wally World 22" ones for the longer sight radius, but if I do I'll need one of you guys in NH or VT to pick one up there and transfer it to me in MA as no Walmarts here sell guns anymore.

 

[jar]

Having someone else pick one up and bring it in will cost you another transfer at an FFL. With gas prices these days, that might not actually be a bad thing depending where you live. If you're close to a border though, it's probably cheaper for you to go pick it up yourself.

 

[edirtyfour]

Having someone else pick one up and bring it in will cost you another transfer at an FFL. With gas prices these days, that might not actually be a bad thing depending where you live. If you're close to a border though, it's probably cheaper for you to go pick it up yourself.

Hmmm... I am under the impression that all out of state purchases had to go through a Mass FFL.

 

[Nickle]

I'd be interested in a group buy on tech sights - I'm planning on picking up another 10/22. I'm toying with the idea of getting one of the Wally World 22" ones for the longer sight radius, but if I do I'll need one of you guys in NH or VT to pick one up there and transfer it to me in MA as no Walmarts here sell guns anymore.

Actually, you'll need to go there and get it.

Bennington is where I got mine (the Wally World Special), give them a call.

 

[edirtyfour]

From GOAL:

It is also against federal law for a person to purchase a firearm in a state they do not reside in without going through a federally licensed dealer (18 U.S. Code 922(d)(1)) and completing a mandatory background check through the NICS system created by Public Law 103-159.

Cited from http://www.goal.org/news/STOPtheLies.htm

 

[M1911]

Hmmm... I am under the impression that all out of state purchases had to go through a Mass FFL.

No. A non-FFL can purchase a long gun at an FFL in any state. Note that the purchase must be made in person. A handgun must be transferred through an FFL in the purchaser's state of residence. There are different rules for C&R firearms if you have a C&R FFL. From the excellent ATF FAQ:

(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

full text here: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b2

 

[edirtyfour]

Okay, thanks for the clarification. I was in fact thinking of handguns.

 

[Chris]

Back to the .22 Training Rifle.

One of the reasons that the 10/22 works so well is that it is very similar to the M1A in layout.

For those of us shooting ARs, I'm thinking that a dedicated .22 upper (not a 'conversion' as they tend to cause gas tube problems) would be a good choice. A little more $$ to be sure, but you keep the same sling, stock and trigger which can't be a bad thing.

My group buy AR is going to be built with a dedicated .22 upper. Mostly because the rifle is going to be my son's one day (his birthday is the serial number) but also because it is a more economical platform to train with.

 

[Nickle]

Well, that 10/22 isn't as far from an AR as you think.

Before you go the dedicated upper route (and spend the $$$ for it), PM Martlet and get his opinion. He was shooting an AR with a .22 upper (not a conversion, IIRC). He's also building an LTR or 2.

Folks, the basics are the basics. You can learn them with pretty much anything, and change over easily to a different layout rifle.

 

[edirtyfour]

It comes down to expertise and how much cash you have to play with.

If you're a novice, the 10/22 is perfect - cheap and easy to obtain and use.

If you're more experienced or can pay to play (as I think you can Chris), and if you are hardcore set on the AR platform a dedicated upper would be the way to go.

I like the 10/22's because I can own a few for the same price as a dedicated .22 AR.

 

[pipmaster1971]

Great link. Thanks guys. I'm going to buy a 10/22 very soon (I also need to join a new club so I can shoot it). I think I'll start with the sites and the sling since it appears they are the most important.

Would it be a safe assumption that a wood stock is better than a synthetic stock? I'm thinking of how I would attach a sling to a synthetic stock.

 

[M1911]

Would it be a safe assumption that a wood stock is better than a synthetic stock? I'm thinking of how I would attach a sling to a synthetic stock.

I'd go with synthetic -- it doesn't shrink and swell as moisture changes. I'd suspect that attaching a sling would work the same way.

 

[dbhn]

Any other pros and cons of the synthetic/stainless version? I asked in another thread but did not get much advice. I like the synthetic version but worried there would be some reason I should get the wood stock/blue model.

BTW, I am in if there is a tech sight group buy. A LTR 10/22 and hence Appleseed is on my very short list of things to do.

 

[edirtyfour]

Any other pros and cons of the synthetic/stainless version? I asked in another thread but did not get much advice. I like the synthetic version but worried there would be some reason I should get the wood stock/blue model.

BTW, I am in if there is a tech sight group buy. A LTR 10/22 and hence Appleseed is on my very short list of things to do.

I have the synthetic/stainless model and it runs like a champ. It's more idiot proof as the stock won't crack/swell/ding like a wood one, and the stainless barrel won't rust like the blued carbon steel one will.

As far as sling studs go, the hogue overmolded stock has uncle mike's studs pre-installed. I picked that up before the appleseed and it is an amazing stock. Much better hand positioning, and I love hogue rubber. Midway had 'em on sale the other day.

 

[Vintovka]

You want FOUR 10-round mags total. Not two 25 rounders (they get in the way when you're shooting prone) but 4 10 rounders

Agreed. I'd shot the 40-round sets with a 10-rounder while standing, and a pre-ban 30 for the rest. There may be a theoretical advantage in not having to change magazines, but then I never felt like I was racing the clock during the Appleseed (and my position changes were sloooow). The big plastic magazine did get in the way while prone. It was also, surprisingly, more clumsy to insert into the well, and on one occasion did not lock in on the first attempt. The Ruger 10-rounders snap in easily and consistently. Also, one of the guys on the line with a plastic mag (I don't know the make) had it break on him.

I agree with Nikaios on the Hogue stock... I have one on my LTR, and prefer the positive grip of the rubber over the un-checkered & laminated factory stock. However, keep in mind that it doesn't really change the overall length & pull, and the comb is about the same as factory stock's, which may be a tad low for the Tech Sights for some shooters.

I highly recommend a quick-release bolt handle and the oversized mag release. A trigger job is also a nice improvement (I have the Clark set, and am quite happy with it).