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The Left, the Wall, the Truth

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by wahsben, Jan 15, 2019.

  1. new guy

    new guy NES Member

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    Fritz the Cat likes this.

  2. wahsben

    wahsben NES Life Member NES Member

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    The point is that a wall can be effective. How many border patrol agents do we have monitoring wide open spaces? There are border patrol agents that support a wall. The most effective thing would probably be removing any incentive for them to come here illegally but that's not likely to happen.
     
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  3. boiler_eng

    boiler_eng NES Member

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    I figure it is along the lines of "Part of a well balanced Breakfast" ..... I mean border enforcement effort.

    Walls do not solve every problem, but they serve to shift activity or dissuade some actions. However if you just place a wall and no agents obviously someone can just build a ladder or heck even just a ramp up and down the wall or make a machine that will bore a hole the size of a car in the wall.
     
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  4. ReluctantDecoy

    ReluctantDecoy

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    Yes, effective at the hot spots between the largest urban centers, but largely useless across the large swaths of open land in between. Even with about 5k agents monitoring the Rio Grande area, there are simply not enough eyes considering you not only have to watch the wall, but around the wall, under the wall hundreds of feel past the wall on both sides, the ocean beyond the wall, etc. We're talking about thousands of square miles. We'd be better off hiring a few predator drone operators to criss-cross the border all day to be eyes for the ground agents (maybe a warning missile or two, at their discretion).
     
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  5. wahsben

    wahsben NES Life Member NES Member

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    That's fine with me. The wall and the drones would probably be even more effective but as I said removing the incentive to come here would most likely be the most effective thing to do.
     
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  6. milktree

    milktree NES Member

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    That sounds extremely anti-free market.
     
  7. new guy

    new guy NES Member

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    How so? The result would be either: (a) the price of produce spikes as farmers have to hire more expensive (i.e. documented) labor; or (b) the growers invest in the most cost effective method of harvesting the crops. Or are you talking about the global labor market, and pretending that the rule of law doesn't matter?
     
  8. wahsben

    wahsben NES Life Member NES Member

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  9. Super99Z

    Super99Z NES Member

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    This is the argument of every anti-waller. It will not stop all of them but it will deter a lot of them. There is no other option now. The politicians will not stop the welfare handouts, so they will keep coming.
     
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  10. new guy

    new guy NES Member

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    It's the same as the argument against 2A as a protection against tyranny, on the basis that We the People could never defeat the US government if push came to shove, so we should just give up all our guns.
     
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  11. milktree

    milktree NES Member

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    It's anti-free market to try to control the labor force. A free market pays market wage, if you try to control that by restricting the flow of labor...

    A free market would allow anyone who was willing to do the work, do the work.
     
  12. new guy

    new guy NES Member

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    Nobody's controlling the labor force, they're controlling their border, and enforcing their laws. The effects on the labor force are a consequence.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
  13. Picton

    Picton NES Member

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    Awesome!

    Another Wall thread!

    No doubt all the posts will be identical to last month’s wall thread.
     
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  14. milktree

    milktree NES Member

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    You're suggesting restricting the labor force. That's what I'm talking about.

    Trying to protect labor wages by restricting the workforce is protectionist.
     
  15. new guy

    new guy NES Member

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    Jesus, it’s not about protecting wages, it’s about protecting the whole goddamn country. Nobody wants to pay more for lettuce, but if that’s what has to happen to end the scourge of illegal immigration then bring it on.
     
  16. Demfer

    Demfer

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    I'll take whatever Mexico pays for ;)
     
  17. Mark L

    Mark L

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    Opponents of a wall, equipped with monitoring technology, shouldn't be taken seriously. Their objection can't be based on lack of effectiveness, given the myriad examples already in existence. A physical barrier, with a buffer zone under surveillance, will absolutely work. Camera, image processing, and wireless communications technology from a decade ago could readily identify threats approaching a barrier 24/7, and summon the troops.

    It's all about politics, power, and control. I hope Trump stands his ground on this, as the issue is a big reason he has the job. Regarding gov workers not getting paid, find a job where compensation isn't subject to the whims of political grand-standers. Personally, I don't think nearly enough of the gov has been shut down by this (BTW, my income comes through DoD, so I'd feel it too). Raise the stakes ...
     
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  18. enbloc

    enbloc NES Life Member NES Member

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    We wouldn't need a wall if the Free Shit went away forever...
     
  19. Cipher

    Cipher NES Member

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  20. Mark L

    Mark L

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    Agrred, but securing wall funding will be way easier than tackling that problem.
     
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  21. Dadstoys

    Dadstoys NES Member

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    These a-holes didn't overstay a work visa.
    They didn't come through a normal point of entry.
    They aren't here for the welfare , they can just kill you for what you have and sell drugs to get by.
    Build the damn wall.
    [​IMG]
     
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  22. FiremanBob

    FiremanBob NES Member

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    What is your evidence for the above opinion?
     
  23. Chevy 2 65

    Chevy 2 65 NES Member

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    Yes, please

    [​IMG]
     
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  24. Glockster30

    Glockster30 NES Member

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    Dennis Rodman must be the first smartest Dennis on the list. Even Kim Jong Un likes him.
     
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  25. hminsky

    hminsky NES Life Member NES Member

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    How about pay $5 billion for a swarm of semi-autonomous drones, built by US companies. They can cover the border, and provide a much needed boost to our domestic drone industry, which is being crushed by the Chinese. If they see people coming across the border, a couple of dozen drones can come over and follow the people until some border agent can come and meet them.

    Or is that too 'Terminator'?
     
  26. M60

    M60 NES Member

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  27. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA NES Member

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    The biggest CRIME part of immigration is the open border. Close it down and it slows them down.

    Sure you can lock your door and keep an eye out on that. You also probably lock the basement window and check it on a reasonably-regular basis. Heck, helli-chopter flights could monitor a TON of the border at that point. Movement over the wall would be fairly visible and you could patrol the whole thing 1x/day no problem. Identify hot spots (that basement window) and deal with it accordingly.

    The remainder relates to work visas. Make them easier to renew for certain industries. Suddenly, millions of "illegals" are no longer illegal because they can renew their work visa without leaving work. Because if they take a day to renew the visa now (assuming they even can), they'll get replaced by another worker who doesn't have to lose a day of work.

    The article seems to say it's going to cost a lot more than $5B to build a wall on 2,000 miles. I'm not sure anyone has ever believed that. The discussion during the Election put the LOW end # at $20-50B assuming no cost overruns.

    Ultimately, if I got everything I wanted. . . . . the Democrats would STILL lose their minds because migrant workers wouldn't be subject to minimum wage requirements. Their heads would explode. Plus we'd have to have ongoing debates on what industries. Do you allow a 3-year visa for someone to lay HW flooring in Boston??? How about framing in Savannah, GA? Roofing your house in Kalamazoo, MI? All jobs that Americans probably DO want but are getting pushed out by migrant (legal or otherwise) labor.

    This isn't the end-all/be-all, but it's a good start.
     
  28. Dench

    Dench

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    Hello, apparent leftist or some shit here.

    The only thing I don't really agree with is the wall being immoral. I don't see it as that. I see it as being retarded.

    Is the wall expensive? Well, it depends on what you're comparing it to. Is it expensive compared to space projects? No. Compared to questionable infrastructure projects in CA? No. Compared to needed local infrastructure projects in MA? Yes.

    Is the wall effective? Only for people who post on NES who weigh 300lbs+. I say that because anyone else on the planet could go over this with a ladder bought at a hardware store or hell, even made in short order. Walls are EASY to go over. They are somewhat difficult to go through depending on what you're working with and can be very straightforward to go under. Oh no! The wall goes 20+ feet underground! Let me bring out the "no one here gives a f*** face" and dig straight under that no problem just like they do with the million drug tunnels already dug under the border. The only thing that actually stops digging under walls is saturating the ground with water. That way when you dig it fills with water. That's it. It's the only way you can prevent digging under and it will never be implemented for this wall.

    Now Dench, what about the "great" wall of china? I don't know, what about it? WTF does it have in common with this wall? Are we defending against the Mongol horde or some shit? Does anyone who posts that even know wtf it is they are talking about? That wall has like a 2,000 year history, and it was breached a shit load of times, was incredibly difficult to maintain and staff, and subsequently failed to stop at its original job of being a wall. If your idea of The Great Wall is propping up your favorite local asian feudal lord, f*** yeah what a great idea! The only thing the great wall did was keep 2 ethnic groups of huge a**h***s separate.

    What about rivers? Has anyone on NES heard of rivers? You know, paths with water and shit? yeah, you can't make walls across those really. I'm sure some blowhard has some great design though and he's going to have zero problem convincing conservatives he has it all figured out. Afterall, all the people in the room he has to convince are so hard from the idea of a wall that they are trying their best to do a cool lean in their chair to conceal the massive erection going on. No time to listen to the proposal when you have that shit going on you know what I mean?

    Rough terrain? Never heard of her. Not worried about it, build the wall big dog no problem.

    If you are seriously comparing this wall to the one used in Israel you are so out of the realm of reality there's no bringing you back. That thing is AIDS in wall form.

    Do I support open boarders? No. Do I support tough immigration law? I have no idea what that means.

    I support people shutting their f***ing TVs off and using their brains.

    Why are people coming in illegally?

    -Drug smuggling. Dench would ask how could we lessen that? Ending the War on Drugs is a strong start. There isn't a single thing on this Earth up to and including death that will ever stop people from wanting drugs. The wall will do zero to stop or slow it.

    -People smuggling. From Sex trade to cheap labor to people trying to get out of their shit hole home country by any means neccisary. This is a more complicated issue because one reason isn't going to be related to the other. Obviously continue to crack down on the sex trade. Bring down the hammer hard on US employers who employ immigrants without work visas. Eliminate the citizenship birthright thing. Boom, right there all the pregnant woman killing themselves trying to get here would stop and a lot of the people looking for work would slow.

    Another important thing to mention is a HUGE amount of illegal immigration is from people who've outstayed their visas and entered the US legally. The wall will do zero to stop that.


    All the all is going to do is be another .gov jobs program and stop people who are so dumb that they cant figure out a way around through or under it.


    Whenever issues become partisan the IQ level of the conversation goes under 80 immediately. Look at Syria now. That is so comically confusing to keep track of now that you have to be missing part of your brain to even consider playing along with it.
     
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  29. Super99Z

    Super99Z NES Member

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    All great positions, viewing from the angle of none of that will ever happen, what would you propose?
     
  30. Dench

    Dench

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    If the gov wont crack down on illegal working, anchor babies and change its drug policy I'd say do nothing.

    The wall isn't going to do anything meaningful. The only thing it is is a F You to the (D)'s. It's a game. A ploy. Partisan bullshit.
     
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