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The John Kelly Memorial Practical Shooting Match - PLANNING THREAD

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There was some interest under the GENERAL DISCUSSION category about putting on a practical shooting match to honor John Kelly similar to a 2008 match put on by Dave Bold and the crew at The Rod & Gun Club of New Bedford.

I am pleased to announce that the Metro West Tactical IDPA Group at the Harvard Sportsmens Club has agreed to organize this match, and, Harvard club president Dan Hurley has reserved Saturday, July 31, 2010 as the date to put this match on. This date was selected in an attempt to avoid conflicts with other matches in the practical shooting sports disciplines in our area.

In Mr. Kelly's spirit, we would like people from the various practical shooting sports to volunteer to run a stage in their discipline and mentor new shooters trying out your sport. John liked to shoot many disciplines, and, I never heard him say a bad word about another sport. He was always there to lend a helping hand being a RO/SO and he was friendly to everyone, especially those new to the sport. You could always count on John to be an ethical sportsman/official, and to help out in any way possible.

The preliminary match format proposed is as listed below:

1) Indoor IDPA stage, Limited Vickers (Virginia Count), with no reloading or movement in the dark. Shooters will be provided a flashlight that they will hold in their hand at the start with their firearm loaded and holstered, all strings shot in the dark. Reloading between strings will be done off the clock with the lights on for safety reasons for those shooters who have never shot in the dark with a flashlight.

2) Outdoor IDPA stage

3) Outdoor USPSA stage

4) Outdoor Steel Challenge stage

5) Outdoor Walls of Steel-like stage (Dan Hurley says we should have enough steel between the IDPA & USPSA at Harvard to make a Walls of Steel-like stage with our large poppers. If the folks from Wallum Lake could bring some of their small steel targets and run this stage that would be terrific!)

6) Outdoor PPC stage

We would use open squadding to help avoid bottlenecks. Equipment rules would be relaxed to permit cross-over between the disciplines without having to swap out gear. We will have to figure out a system for scoring to permit the tallying of all 6 stages to determine Division winners. We don't have to re-invent the wheel here, Dave Bold has already volunteered to try and scrape up the score sheet from his match and he can let us know how the 2008 match was scored. Divisions can be relatively simple: Pistol, Revolver & Open, this will keep the number of trophies low so that as much money as possible can be donated to charity on John's behalf.

There has been proposals to donate the match proceeds to GOAL to promote new shooter training or to the American Heart Association, I don't see why we can't donate to both. I already have a graphic designer who has volunteered to design a T-shirt for this match. As an initial proposition, I suggest the match fee be the $40 (typical $20 USPSA or IDPA match fee at Harvard plus $20 to go towards the T-shirt, if the shirt costs less any leftover will go toward charity). We can have pre-registration by mail with a cutoff date so that we know how many T-shirts to buy, what sizes, etc. Any registrations after that, or any walk-ins, won't get a T-shift.

On the earlier threads I had quite a few volunteers indicate they would be interested in helping out. If you would like to help out at this match by staffing a pit, helping with stage design, setup/breakdown, etc. please send me an email at [email protected] and include your first and last name. I can setup a mass email list in my Yahoo account that can be used to keep everyone updated.

What I would like you all to do with this thread is post your ideas about how this match should be run. Everything you see above is just a preliminary starting point and is subject to change. One proposal was to have the low-light stage be a "bonus" stage and not be counted toward the overall match. Do you want the low-light stage to count toward the match - could be a difference maker for those who have never done it before, or have limited experience with a light. Is 6 stages too much? Do you want to throw out one of the disciplines and substitute another? Open squadding will be useful to avoid bottlenecks, and, if you don't want to compete for the bragging rights of winning your division you can shoot only the stages you are interested in and leave whenever you want. Do you want to have a trophy for division winners, or, will you settle for bragging rights only and put the cost of the trophy towards the charitable donation? Do you want to have more divisions that the three listed above? Do we want to limit the number of registrations to keep the time duration of the match down, or do we want to accept all that are interested to raise as much as possible for charity and be prepared for a full-day?

Let's have fun with this and honor Mr. Kelly at the same time!

Regards,
John Catterall
 
Hi John,
I am only familiar with IDPA and would be happy to help out as an SO, set-up, take-down, or what ever else is needed. Please let me know if you will need any bowling pins as i will be aquiring a few cases this weekend.
 
You can set up the stages and have the squadding such that you don't need open squadding. but its not a big deal either way.
I don't think trophies are needed, lets get as much money to charities as possible.

The low light stage should count as part of the match.

Time based scoring will be the easiest way to score the match

Maybe a raffle with proceeds going to the charities
 
That's easy to do in IDPA and steel. How do you do it for USPSA with minor/major scoring? Don't even know what PPC is.

Its one stage, score it IDPA, but USPSA rules no major or minor, it will help even out the round disadvantage that the 10 rounds have against the limited guys.

I'm not sure how they will work in PPC, since its points based fixed time
 
Its one stage, score it IDPA, but USPSA rules no major or minor, it will help even out the round disadvantage that the 10 rounds have against the limited guys.

I'm not sure how they will work in PPC, since its points based fixed time

So IDPA miss is down 5 or 2.5 sec. In USPSA stage miss= 2.5sec, B/C 1.0 sec, D 2.0 sec- with a miss do you get an extra penalty?
 
First, your idea is great. I will not shoot the match so pick a place where you want an experienced RO/SO and I will stay there for the day. Just bring me water :) I will have my lunch, timer, and a whip

The raffle is also an excellent idea. Contact Sig, Ruger, S&W, KAHR, PARA, SVI, and advise them what you are doing. A good letter explaining the purpose and goal and a request for product suitable for a raffle may surprise you what you get. Maybe Paul Ehrhardt ( on this forum) would be willing to handle the request. How about it Paul?

So, John, you have my e mail. keep me in the loop and tell me where to be and when and I will be there.

Gary
 
Thanks guys for your ideas, keep them coming... As far as the raffle goes we wanted to do that at the IDPA New England Regional match last year and Cross-X advised us that we could not legally sell raffle tickets... not sure if with this event being for charity if there is an exception...something we can look into...
 
MGL, Chapter 271, Section 7A

As with anything else, there is a permit and tax required - the tax going to the lottery commission to compensate them for the business you steal from them.
 
We apply for a permit at the Boxboro town hall, who then forwards it to the Boxboro PD, and then they mail it back to us. As Rob pointed out, one of the primary functions of the permit is to make sure you pay tax on the ticket sales. There is no tax break even thought it is a charity fundraiser, unless you want to incorporate a non-profit entity in a real hurry.
 
We apply for a permit at the Boxboro town hall, who then forwards it to the Boxboro PD, and then they mail it back to us. As Rob pointed out, one of the primary functions of the permit is to make sure you pay tax on the ticket sales. There is no tax break even thought it is a charity fundraiser, unless you want to incorporate a non-profit entity in a real hurry.

Dan, is there someone at the club who has experience applying for this permit who can do this for us?
 
For scoring the PPC stage, you could score similar to a fixed time USPSA classifier stage. I believe the hit-factor on those is just the total points.
This is described in 9.2.4 in the USPSA rulebook.

Steve
 
Scoring each stage is easy - the trick is how to combine disparate systems into one overall score.

I suggest each stage award 0-100 points by .01 point increments, using a method of their own choosing - and the match score simply be the total of all points. The nice thing about this system is that you don't need any coordination between disciplines, except to assure reasonable commonality of equipment.

If each stage turns scores in as an Excell spread sheet with three columns:

Comp #, Name, Points

A merge will be easy - and this does not even require that all stages use the same software to calculate their scores.
 
From that match we did in 2008, what we did for scoring across the different diciplines was:
Each stage of USPSA, IDPA, Steel Plate, Steel Challenge and PPC is worth a max of 100 stage points, for a maximum possible match total of 500 points. Each stage is scored independently. USPSA scoring for the USPSA stage, IDPA scoring for its stage, etc. with the stage winner getting all 100 stage points and the rest get a percentage of stage points based on their percentage as compared to the stage winner. The shooter with the most overall match points for their division is the division winner.

And for the different divisions:
There are five different divisions loosely based on USPSA divisions of Open, Limited, Production, Single Stack and Revolver. You have to use the same gun/holster/etc for all 5 stages and the equipment requirements for the different disciplines would be relaxed. So an open shooter will use their open equipment on the IDPA stage, but will only be able to load 10 rounds into their mags for example.


This seemed to work out well. Each differnt stage counts equally to the overall match. The unfortunate thing is there is no off-the-shelf software to do this for the person who's enering the scores, but still, it wasn't too bad to calculate.
 
MGL, Chapter 271, Section 7A

As with anything else, there is a permit and tax required - the tax going to the lottery commission to compensate them for the business you steal from them.

Sure then call it a door prize... and let shootesr optionally donate more to the charity if they want and call it done.
 
From that match we did in 2008, what we did for scoring across the different diciplines was:
Each stage of USPSA, IDPA, Steel Plate, Steel Challenge and PPC is worth a max of 100 stage points, for a maximum possible match total of 500 points. Each stage is scored independently. USPSA scoring for the USPSA stage, IDPA scoring for its stage, etc. with the stage winner getting all 100 stage points and the rest get a percentage of stage points based on their percentage as compared to the stage winner. The shooter with the most overall match points for their division is the division winner.

And for the different divisions:
There are five different divisions loosely based on USPSA divisions of Open, Limited, Production, Single Stack and Revolver. You have to use the same gun/holster/etc for all 5 stages and the equipment requirements for the different disciplines would be relaxed. So an open shooter will use their open equipment on the IDPA stage, but will only be able to load 10 rounds into their mags for example.


This seemed to work out well. Each differnt stage counts equally to the overall match. The unfortunate thing is there is no off-the-shelf software to do this for the person who's enering the scores, but still, it wasn't too bad to calculate.

That makes a lot of sense- I like it!
 
Each stage of USPSA, IDPA, Steel Plate, Steel Challenge and PPC is worth a max of 100 stage points...with the stage winner getting all 100 stage points and the rest get a percentage of stage points based on their percentage as compared to the stage winner.

Thanks Dave, sounds like a good way to do it... I wouldn't be surprised if we get 100 shooters so maybe we can give the stage winner 100, second place 99, third place 98 etc. If we have more than 100 shooters then 101 to the end zero the stage... Harvard's last IDPA match in January had 53 shooters in 20 degree weather and USPSA easily has in the neighborhood of 50-60 shooters so I would not be surprised if we get a large crowd... This is one of the reasons why I suggested open squadding...assigning pre-assigned squads is going to leave us with the challenge of balancing all the stages which may be difficult because of all the different disciplines.
 
If each stage turns scores in as an Excell spread sheet with three columns:

Comp #, Name, Points

A merge will be easy - and this does not even require that all stages use the same software to calculate their scores.

Sounds like a good idea Rob... Hopefully we can get someone to volunteer to do the scoring - he/she can shoot their stages and then start entering scores on a laptop right at the range as they come in to get a nice headstart on the total match results.
 
NBPD3682(John) - This sounds like a great idea!

MA Shooter - that sounds like a simple solution - I like it.

At the Pro-Am they had one stage that was simple speed shoot (row of Poppers) - this stage was used only as a tie breaker for the overall match - plus it added trigger time to the match and went fast.
 
Sounds like a good idea Rob... Hopefully we can get someone to volunteer to do the scoring - he/she can shoot their stages and then start entering scores on a laptop right at the range as they come in to get a nice headstart on the total match results.
You need someone to handle the score from each type of stage - which may not all be scored using the same program.
 
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