The "Glocks and Lead Ammo" story - Where to find l

[traveler57]

Okay, again being a "new guy" can be a pain. I know that the issue of using lead ammo in Glocks has been around a long, long time, but I need some local input.

After spending a couple of hours searching the web and reading about the use of lead ammo in Glocks (back to 1999) it appears that a lot of the stories on KBs (KaBoom) in a Glock are a bit misunderstood.

Here is what I have learned from info from 1999 to 2004--
While the use of lead ammo is commonly blamed in KBs, it turns out that it is more the use of out-of-spec reloaded ammo, rather than the lead itself. Simple cleaning regularly solves the lead buildup problems in the stock Glock barrel. The good news is, that I have found many current Glock owners (on GlockTalk.com) that use lead ammo regularly for years with zero problems. The mis-information seems to come from the fact that lead ammo in some calibers is not readily available in factory ammo, so it is usually from reloads. Then, if the reload is overcharged, you get the KB.

OKAY- Here is the question- One of the local clubs I am thinking of joining requires the use of only lead ammo in their indoor range.
So, where do I find commerical (or reliable reloads) for lead ammo for my 40S&W Glock? I found one source, tonight, that most people like, but it is in Oregon. And of course won't ship to MA. Either LRB or semi wadcutters would be okay. I found factory lead ammo for 9mm and 45ACP, but not for 40S&W.

Any help would be appreciated, to find a local source for lead ammo. And any local experience with lead ammo in Glocks would be useful also.

Otherwise, I guess I be spending some cold winter days on the outdoor range. Or I guess I can limit my shooting to my 357 and 38 which I can find factory lead ammo for. And, please, no one tell me just to pick another club, that was already suggested to me at GlockTalk.

Thanks in advance for everyone's help.

Dan

 

[Nickle]

PM incoming.

IF you wish to shoot lead bullet ammo through a Glock, make damned sure to clean the lead bullet residue frequently.

Glocks use polygonal rifling, and this causes lead build up far faster than normal. The buildup causes restriction in the bore and causes pressures to rise, causing the KB. If you clean frequently (every time you use the gun, and every 100 to 200 rounds), you should be OK.

Aftermarket barrels generally use normal rifling.

 

[Adam_MA]

My clubs indoor range only allows lead as well. I picked up some .40 lead rounds from Four Seasons in Woburn. It cycled perfectly, not all that dirty, and pretty accurate! I think it was around $10 a box.

Adam

 

[dwarven1]

Re: The "Glocks and Lead Ammo" story - Where to fi

OKAY- Here is the question- One of the local clubs I am thinking of joining requires the use of only lead ammo in their indoor range. So, where do I find commerical (or reliable reloads) for lead ammo for my 40S&W Glock?

OK, 1 - look for other clubs in the area (yeah, I know, but hey, you haven't joined this one yet, so you still can!)

2 - find out if they're considering changing that rule. Riverside used to have that rule and changed it a few years back. (still can't shoot magnum ammo indoors, but hey... one step at a time)

3 - check out bullseye Shooting Supplies in Woonsocket. You'll have to visit there in person no doubt, but they're right over the line in RI. From their website:
RELOADED AMMUNITION WITH YOUR BRASS Reg: 8.95 Sale: 7.10
40 S&W 180 GRAIN CONE STYLE 50 ROUNDS PER BOX

I don't know if this is jacketed or not. A call or email should find out, though. Phone 401-766-4409 or Email: [email protected]

 

[Adam_MA]

Actually, That is the brand that they carry at Four Seasons.

Adam

 

[dwarven1]

But I'll bet that it is cheaper at Bullseye - I think that they're the guys who reload it.

 

[Chris]

BarSto makes drop-in barrels for Glocks with conventional rifling. If you plan on shooting a lot of lead, might be worth picking up a 'lead' barrel.

Bulleseye is pretty good stuff. I've fired various loadings of theirs (including some .500 Magnum) and for the $$ it is a pretty good product. Perhaps a bit dirty (cleaning the comp of the 500 was PIA after only 20 rounds)

 

[Nickle]

BarSto makes drop-in barrels for Glocks with conventional rifling. If you plan on shooting a lot of lead, might be worth picking up a 'lead' barrel.

That would also be my recommendation.

Glock 22 - http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=429114

All Glock Barrels:

http://www.midwayusa.com/esearch.ex...+Begin+Search.x=15&Click+to+Begin+Search.y=11

 

[Chris]

Bullseye Ammo

 

[traveler57]

THANKS

Gee guys, I am sure glad I am part of this forum. This is all great info.
I am humbled in your presence.....

And, when everyone talks about cleaning their Glocks a lot because of the lead, I'm confused. Am I the only one that always cleans my guns after EVERY shoot??? Maybe I am old school, but that was how I was taught. So letting lead build up in my Glock shouldn't be an issue....

Yes, I read about the BarSto barrels on the Glock forum, so sounds like a no-brainer for about $70. And if you guys say it, then you just made my decision real easy. Sounds like this and proper cleaning should work fine then for shooting lead.

And, I have been meaning to get to Bullseye, as it is only 8 miles from my house, but just haven't had time yet. Can't buy firearms of course, but I have heard from others that they are a good shop. Can't get much closer...... Maybe on Friday, coming from PVD.

And, thanks Nickle, I'll make the other call too.

And, yes, Angle Tree Stone in Bellingham (one club I am looking at) is planning on re-buiding their indoor range next year, so maybe they will consider a range that can handle FMJ rds.

I will also get in touch with Rob (from this forum) soon, and look at the HSA in Hopkington. It is the same distance as ATS. ATS is because I have a neighbor that belongs there. Also, I want to have done my full homework before picking a club. And with my crazy travel schedule, I need close by so I can go at odd times when I get an hour free.

So, yes, Rob I will try to call you soon, and take you up on your offer of meeting at HSA. I will have to look back at your site and see if your indoor range requires lead too. Right now, I have to outdistance RITA and get out of Texas by tomorrow.

Thanks everyone, Dan

 

[Nickle]

No problem, you're welcome.

You'll get your chance to "repay the favor", by helping someone else. I know there's GOT to be an area where you'll get the chance to help someone here.

 

[TonyD]

I've never had a problem with my 19. 2nd generation, 1989 Inagural. Sometimes I clean it, sometimes I don't. 80 - 100 rounds of factory FMJ's doesn't cause much to really clean.

 

[Nickle]

Yeah, Glocks don't HAVE to be spotless to work. I shoot only jacketed ammo, but, I don't clean it as frequently as some folks.

 

[traveler57]

The "rest of the story"

Okay,

In my quest to know as much as I can, and to learn, I decided to get some of the Bullseye reloads for my Glock 22. But, being the cautious type, I bought some of their 180gr FMJ rds first, (not lead RN) before I venture on to lead with a Barsto barrel, etc. Now this post is not meant to bash Bullseye at all, but is simply a report of facts from my day at the range today.

Now, remember from all the input, from here, from GlockTalk, and from other glock owners, some said no to lead, some say no to reloads, some say no problem, just clean often, and some say factory ammo only.

Okay, I have about 800+ rds through my Glock (2 months since purchase) with only factory ammo, mostly WIN white box, target 165grs. And I have tried various Fed, Rem, etc for PD ammo. NEVER a problem, NEVER a misfire, NEVER a squib, just perfect firing everytime.

Now, today, I load up a single mag of 15 rds of the Bullseye reload.

I fired only 8 rds and GAVEUP- Here's why.
2 shots okay
1 misfire/dud (drop mag, rack, check/clear, insert mag, chamber rd)
1 bad eject, case caught in slide - (same routine as above)
2 shots okay
1 bad eject, case caught in slide - (same as above)
1 bad eject, case caught in slide
BUT now the slide is fully stuck at mid-action, will not budge, after some hard tap/racks the case came out, but the slide is still stuck mid-action.

No signs of squibs or light loads, at least by sound, even for the mis-ejects. Note also, I was trained to put a pen or pencil through the barrel after "odd" rds, misfires, etc. to confirm a clear barrel. The the only thing my friend and I can guess at this point is "maybe" the second bad-eject also was a light load and left the bullet mid-barrel. (But I am pretty sure I checked the barrel....) Then the next and last shot damaged the barrel somehow. But this is only speculation at this point. The smithy will tell me more.

So, I unload the rest of the reloads from my mag, shot my 1970s vintage Llama 380, without a single problem, with factory ammo, and then I left for home to cry into a beer about my broken Glock.

Other Glock owners at the range had never seen a failure like this one. Gunsmith doesn't open until Monday at 8am, so I will wait to see what he says.

So, to Nickle's excellent point about learning and teaching others. I hope that this experience of mine will help teach others about Glocks and sticking to using only FACTORY ammo, period. I have now been fully convinced. And, yes, some will say that they have had zero problems, that is great. But let other Glock owners see all the experiences of others using this forum and let them be their own judge.

And if someone thinks saving a dollar or two per box is a great reason to buy reloads, I would suggest thinking again. For me, the $50-100 per year (if I shoot a box of 50rds per week) is just not worth it. And, please, I don't mean to hurt any feelings of anyone who does their own reloading. God bless you my children, you are better man than me...... I do have friends that reload in order to get the exact performance that they want or need, and I can understand that. Just not in a Glock....

I am thinking that sharing of experiences is more educating, than posts of people's "opinions" of subjects, such as "best" gun, or "best" ammo, etc..

 

[DR]

Is Bullseye the loose-packed ammo in a blue box? If so, I tried a box of .38 Special from Four Seasons and was unimpressed. It all fired fine but it was dirty, weak, and not particularly accurate. For a buck or two more per box I'll buy factory ammo.

Hope your Glock turns out alright. Looks like you have an excellent excuse to get a BarSto barrel now.

 

[Adam_MA]

Too bad... I think you just made up my mind for me. I have been thinking for a while that I might want to buy a Glock.. After reading this, I think I will have to rething that again.

I have shot somewhere near 1000 rds of the bullseye lead ammo out of my Walther, and have not seen one of the problems you have talked about. Maybe it's just a problem with this ammo and the Glock specifically.

Oh well, not every gun is the same (even within the same brand and model) and no two guns will shoot the same.

For me, the bullseye ammo shoot perfectly from my Walther, so I will keep using it.

Adam

 

[traveler57]

Crack barrel

Okay, it was a cracked barrel. 99% conclusion was that the 7th round was a weak load and the bullet stayed in the barrel, then the next round hit it and cracked the barrel.

Even when something like checking a barrel for being clear is drilled into you from an early age, it is clear that I did forget to check the barrel after the seventh shot with the partial eject. No biscuit for me..... But I also am positive that I heard no squib, or discharge difference in any of the rounds.

Now the good news, Bullseye (Paul is the manager) saw my gun and agreed on what happened. He was extremely polite and immediately offered to get me a new barrel. He stands fully behind his reloads, so I was pesimistic for nothing. Of course, he could tell that I was a "good" guy and that my story of 800 rds+ of factory without a single failure of any type was true, and that my gun was only 1-2 months old (refurb from Glock.) So, my deal was that I would pay my smitty to cut out the old barrel, and he will have a new Glock barrel FEDEXed in tomorrow.

So, conclusion, from my point of view.
1. Never shoot reloads in a Glock.
2. Always, always, always, check the barrel after a ammo malfunction of anytype. Bring a dowel and light with you to the range. If I have a caught case during a match, I will gladly take the penality of time.....
3. Bullseye and Paul are straight up and a pleasant surprise to deal with in this bad, unlucky situation. I will buy from them again, even the reloads for my revolvers...maybe.



BTW - even more good news, today I got a lot of practice with my 38 and my 22 Mark III.

 

[Nickle]

Sounds like the load is too light. Our Glock 19 (really the wife's, but MY CCW gun) had a little more recoil than she was comfortable with. I tried lighter loads, and before I dropped much, the gun was malf'ing like you desribed.

Reloads in a Glock are OK. Bullseye may have had one that accidently was way too light. Remington and Winchester ammo can do the same thing. Quality control from a professional handloader is almost ALWAYS better than mass produced ammo.

And I'm not in the least surprised that he stood behind it, and made it right. Would Rem or Win do that? Maybe, but not for sure.

 

[TonyD]

I'd say it's also a testament to the strength of Glock. Glad everything is working out. I shot one box of reloads through my 19 years ago and vowed to never do so again.

 

[Adam_MA]

I shot one box of reloads through my 19 years ago and vowed to never do so again.

What kind of experience did you have?

 

[Adam_MA]

I shot one box of reloads through my 19 years ago and vowed to never do so again.

What kind of experience did you have?

 

[Nickle]

Funny, mine gets very little factory stuff. Ask Ross how it worked on Labor Day (the Glock, not the Sigma).

They are finicky about light loads, though. But full power stuff, no problem for me yet.

 

[TonyD]

I shot one box of reloads through my 19 years ago and vowed to never do so again.

What kind of experience did you have?

As relating to what?

 

[TonyD]

Funny, mine gets very little factory stuff. Ask Ross how it worked on Labor Day (the Glock, not the Sigma).

They are finicky about light loads, though. But full power stuff, no problem for me yet.

It's also like you stated, quality reloads. If you're doing it yourself, or know the person who is, and they are being reloaded to SAAMI specs, or the spec's for your firearm, then you should be okay.

Game shooters use light loads to reduce recoil and enable quicker follow up shots. They also set their "game" gun up to function this way, lighter recoil springs, etc.

Factory guns = factory (full power) ammo.

 

[Nickle]

Factory guns = factory (full power) ammo.

Especially in a Glock, I may add. They damned sure don't like light loads. You ever want to see a "Malf-a-matic", try a Glock with light loads. That's not a bad thing, since it runs almost any quality ammo that's loaded to the proper power.

And, contrary to common belief, there are NO light springs out there for the Compact (19 and 23) Glocks. 17 and 22, yes, but not the Compacts.

 

[traveler57]

New Barrel

Well, got my new barrel today, and shot 100+ rds, without a single malf using Win White box 165gr. (Just as before.)

So, yes, lesson learned (the hard way for me) is the issue of light loads and glocks. And tonight I shot with a guy who has been using reloads in his 9mm Glock forever, with minimal problems. Of course he reloads his own and knows what he is doing.

So, again, I'd stand by my Glock anyday as a great gun, and recommend it to others, with no qualms. It is really no difference that using only the best gas and oil in your BMW or MBenz, it is just the way it is. I have no problem with it.

Hey, I'm off to LFI training for 4 days tomorrow. I will post my experience when I get back.

 

[Adam_MA]

I shot one box of reloads through my 19 years ago and vowed to never do so again.

What kind of experience did you have?

As relating to what?

The reloads you shot.

What I am getting at, is I have been thinking for a while that I might buy a Glock. I have shot a couple of different ones, and while they are not my first choice of shooters (for me specifically) I would still like to have one that I can take to the range now and then.

Right now, I only reload .45 ACP, but I am going to be getting setup to reload .40 soon. If Glock pistols seem to have that many issues firing reloads, I might think again about wanting to get one.

Adam

 

[Nickle]

Adam, I've had no problems with my 9mm Model 19, or Mom's 40 cal, Model 22. And I've used reloads in both of them.

The only problem with shooting reloads in a Glock is that you can't use light loads. Some folks just don't get it, so they try anyways, then blame the gun for what's clearly their own making.

Tony evidently was using some reloads that he DIDN'T make himself. Here's the clue:

Factory guns = factory (full power) ammo.

So, reloading for your own Glock is no problem. Just use the appropriate loads for it. And if you want to shoot light loads, use a different gun.

ETA - I still do NOT recommend using lead bullets in a Glock.

 

[TonyD]

Adam - Nickle pretty much summed it up. The box I shot through my Glock 19 several years ago was not mine. Again, I say, don't shoot reloads that you're not aware of in any semi-auto pistol. Under power loads will get stuck in any barrel, they don't care who the manufacturer is.

These were not 'light' loads he shot. They were under powered.

I don't reload 9 mm's, it's too cheap from the factory to make it worth my time. $10 / 100 Win. White box is tough to beat and shoots extremely well out of my 19 and HK for IDPA. Some guys reload their rounds just hot enough to meet the lowest power factor required by IDPA and set their guns up to function with lights loads. To me, that defeats the true purpose of IDPA.

 

[Nickle]

Some guys reload their rounds just hot enough to meet the lowest power factor required by IDPA and set their guns up to function with lights loads. To me, that defeats the true purpose of IDPA.

And that's what turned me off about even considering IPSC. They were all shooting light loads in reworked 1911A1's, and probably couldn't deal with the recoil from a full power load.

IDPA and IPSC should require full power loads.