The Economy going Forward

enbloc

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President Clinton used the line-item veto dozens of times until SCOTUS ruled on a case about it.


I can. The President is supposed to execute the law as it's written; they shouldn't get to interpret it a specific way. If they want to veto it, veto it, but don't pick and choose what you will and won't execute as that defeats the purpose of legislation.
It would however, force Congress to really think out what is absolutely needed as far as new legislation goes before it is sent up to 1600 Penn Ave...

PORK KILLS...
 

enbloc

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Think of it this way:

You ask your wife: "Honey, what should we have for dinner?"
She answers: "Ooh, how about Italian!" , "and a new car" , "and a new big-screen TV", "and I need new shoes too"...

Dinner should have been enough...
 

Beretta92FS

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I was thinking we should go back to bill's being about single items - not 1000-page pork sandwiches. I don't know how the founding fathers intended bills to look like. I'm guessing not 1000-page tomes.

If each bill was a single item - Congress could over-ride a veto if it was important. That's tough with massive bills full of crap.
That would make too much sense, and hence it will never happen
 

drgrant

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Anyone else a bit dubious about the aid package? Like does it really need to be 2 trillion or whatever the f*** it is? And how much is going to banksters and conhugecos as a handout... of course trump has to pass it at some juncture because shitty pols will hold him politically hostage with it....
 

Paul455

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The bailout will also have significant theft and malfeasance, just like Medicare/Medicaid.

A small number of people will do very, very well.

Some people will do OK, and rest are FUBAR.

I estimate that 20-30% of small businesses will go under, despite the bailout.

And thousands of jobs will disappear in the professional sector.
 

Varmint

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Anyone else a bit dubious about the aid package? Like does it really need to be 2 trillion or whatever the f*** it is? And how much is going to banksters and conhugecos as a handout... of course trump has to pass it at some juncture because shitty pols will hold him politically hostage with it....
I'd add that it'll be paid for by blowing up the Fed's balance sheet another $2 trillion, since there's no way they can find real buyers for $2 trillion in 0.3% bonds without driving up interest rates.

So it's paid for by magical money out of thin air.

And nothing the Fed does ever ends, so expect $2 trillion every year now - free money is an addictive drug to Congress and Wall St.
 

Dadstoys

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Anyone else a bit dubious about the aid package? Like does it really need to be 2 trillion or whatever the f*** it is? And how much is going to banksters and conhugecos as a handout... of course trump has to pass it at some juncture because shitty pols will hold him politically hostage with it....
That's what worries me.
The usual pond scum are most likely figuring the best ways to line their and their pals pockets with it.
4 or 5 years from we will find out how many 10's of millions can't be accounted for.
 

bfm

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smokey-seven

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I dont think people are going to tolerate a shutdown for another month.
The businesses will have to open before the people can go to work.

I can't see any downside to a line-item veto.
Think of it this way, a totally absurd thought, but think about it.

A bill hits the presidents desk when the D pres is someone like Bernie or Biden. The bill has 700 line items, one of which is the ban of all semi auto weapons.

The D president line item vetoes 699 of them and leaves the semi auto one in place.

That's extreme but it presents a logical argument.


.
 

Varmint

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Does it matter anymore? Most of our government spending will be paid for by money created from thin air by the Fed. Why even have taxes anymore?
 

enbloc

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Yep. Since fiat was uncoupled with gold by Nixon, it's all been a shell game...

1585400114401.png
 

jpk

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The businesses will have to open before the people can go to work.
.
Thats my point.....we're going to get to a point where business owners are going to say "Enough" and do their best to take precautions for employees/customers and then offer employees option to work.......most everyone will jump at the opportunity to work
 

Uzi2

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The businesses will have to open before the people can go to work.



Think of it this way, a totally absurd thought, but think about it.

A bill hits the presidents desk when the D pres is someone like Bernie or Biden. The bill has 700 line items, one of which is the ban of all semi auto weapons.

The D president line item vetoes 699 of them and leaves the semi auto one in place.

That's extreme but it presents a logical argument.


.
That congress and president would have the burden of blame for a second revolutionary war on their shoulders.

Have you ever wondered why it hasn't been already done to this very day?

Politicians would be killed wholesale.......thats why.
 

omega42

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What was it that caused the big depression in 1929? Or rather, what took so long to pull out of it?
There was the irrationally exuberant stock market. But when the stocks crashed, what took so long
to get things going again? Presumably the economists have studied that to death, so what's the conclusion?
Was it the bank failures themselves, causing it to be impossible to get credit for businesses for a long time? Public jitters about spending money? Something else? If the economists can't figure out what to do to best jump start things after studying
the 1930's for the last 60 years, then I say they're really not very much use.
Economists aren't going to tell us that all the "New Deal" programs didn't end the depression, WWII did. As long as the myth is commonly believed we're ripe for a repeat of that strategy.
 

Cowgirlup

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Economists aren't going to tell us that all the "New Deal" programs didn't end the depression, WWII did. As long as the myth is commonly believed we're ripe for a repeat of that strategy.
We already had that conversation here and came to that conclusion.
 

blindfire

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I was thinking we should go back to bill's being about single items - not 1000-page pork sandwiches. I don't know how the founding fathers intended bills to look like. I'm guessing not 1000-page tomes.

If each bill was a single item - Congress could over-ride a veto if it was important. That's tough with massive bills full of crap.
There was a guy running for MA-3 10 years or so back. One of his main points was that any bill should be less than 100 pages and only for a single topic. I voted for him...but since he was a R...you know how that went.
 
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Anyone else a bit dubious about the aid package? Like does it really need to be 2 trillion or whatever the f*** it is? And how much is going to banksters and conhugecos as a handout... of course trump has to pass it at some juncture because shitty pols will hold him politically hostage with it....
yup, definitely. I think Pelosi already said she dubious, and there will need to be another.
 
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Take for example, FEMA / DHS during Katrina!
No one burned for that shitshow !

63 Foxtrot- out
Katrina was a failure of the local government. The levees were not up to spec, the preparation was non-existent, and honestly, until the levees failed, Katrina was nothing the South hadn't seen before. It was a Cat 3 hurricane at landfall, not fun, but not the end of the world.

Just how many people do you think work at FEMA or DHS that has a job 'respond directly to disasters'? Most of DHS are paperpushers until you get into the individual components. There is no direct response component that I know of.

They are logistics people. They get stuff moving from different states while the crisis is going on, so people dealing with the situation don't have to start making phone calls. They call FEMA and say 'we need X <item>. FEMA gets X item for them. In this case, regarding masks or ventilators, there were no items to get, for whatever reason. Turns out, some of the people crying the loudest had vents in storage, but didn't want to touch them yet. In some cases, they are SME's because they travel all over and generally have more experience dealing with a particular situation. Most of the people who dealt with SARS/MERS/H1N1 are probably retired at this point, working for private, or moved on to some other gig.

Let's be honest, it's not like there are a ton of people under 120 that remember the last real pandemic in the US.
 
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