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the death of the 16 Ga....Why?
- Thread starter Smith33
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Sparkey
NES Member
16ga. Home
www.16ga.com
D
Deleted member 67409
16-gauge goes back and forth in popularity and is experiencing a small comeback because of companies like RST making shells for old guns, the new Browning A5 being available in 16, and the Internet allowing for much easier gun and ammo shopping and finding of information.
What progressively killed 16-gauge was (a) the adoption of skeet rules in the 1930s that fixed the sport on 12, 20, 28, and .410, and (b) the creation of the 2.75" and later 3" 20-gauge shell. Then throw in other factors, like the fact that the "ideal" 16-gauge gun is approximately 6-6.5lbs shooting 1oz of projectiles at around 1200fps. A light, mass-produced 16-gauge is nice to carry but generally rough to shoot over a long period. The guns simply weren't designed for trap, skeet, and sporting clays, except obviously for old 16-gauge trap guns.
Its a need that existed but no longer exists. In black powder and early smokeless powder days, 12 and 20 didn't come in every variety under the sun. 12-gauge shells were usually 1 1/8oz, 16-gauge were 1oz, and 20-gauge were 7/8oz. So, 16 fit in nicely back when those were the payload options and shells were shorter. 16-gauge was popular in days when smokeless 12-gauge came in 2.5" or 2 5/8" shells. Now there's 2.75", 3", 3.5", etc. for 12, but only 2.5" or 2.75" for 16.
But, even in black powder times, 16-gauge sales were still around 1/10 of 12-gauge sales.
16-gauge has always been a niche for people wanting a light gun that shoots a load somewhere between a 12 and a 20.
What progressively killed 16-gauge was (a) the adoption of skeet rules in the 1930s that fixed the sport on 12, 20, 28, and .410, and (b) the creation of the 2.75" and later 3" 20-gauge shell. Then throw in other factors, like the fact that the "ideal" 16-gauge gun is approximately 6-6.5lbs shooting 1oz of projectiles at around 1200fps. A light, mass-produced 16-gauge is nice to carry but generally rough to shoot over a long period. The guns simply weren't designed for trap, skeet, and sporting clays, except obviously for old 16-gauge trap guns.
Its a need that existed but no longer exists. In black powder and early smokeless powder days, 12 and 20 didn't come in every variety under the sun. 12-gauge shells were usually 1 1/8oz, 16-gauge were 1oz, and 20-gauge were 7/8oz. So, 16 fit in nicely back when those were the payload options and shells were shorter. 16-gauge was popular in days when smokeless 12-gauge came in 2.5" or 2 5/8" shells. Now there's 2.75", 3", 3.5", etc. for 12, but only 2.5" or 2.75" for 16.
But, even in black powder times, 16-gauge sales were still around 1/10 of 12-gauge sales.
16-gauge has always been a niche for people wanting a light gun that shoots a load somewhere between a 12 and a 20.
45collector
NES Member
The only reason I ever bothered with 16 gauge was to fire an old blackpowder 10 gauge side-by-side I bought at a gunshow years ago. The gun is Belgian, made in the 1880's, has Damascus 30" barrels, exposed hammers and is in beautiful shape. 10 gauge blackpowder load are very hard to find so I decided to get 16 gauge chamber inserts and fire very mild loads through it. (RST shotshells as C. Stockwell mentioned). I rarely shoot it, mostly at one of my local clubs' annual cowboy action shoots. It doesn't pattern for sh*t with those loads but at CAS distances it does just fine killing tin cans. I shot a pheasant with it out on Sandy Neck a few years back.
My first shotgun back in 1957 was an Iver Johnson single shot 16 ga. But of course, I then had to have a 12 Ga., so I bought a Winchester Model 12. While the 16 was popular back in the day (and still is by a few) it'll never return to its former glory.
Never understood the 16, until I picked one up from a friend trying to raise money. An old Stevens pump. Was going to dump it, until I picked it up and did a few swings with it. Best balance of all my shotguns and just feels "right". Keeping it.
I’m an old boomer. When I was young, the old men all had 16 gauge doubles for small game hunting ( pot hunting). They felt the sixteen gauge was a good compromise where it wouldn’t over kill rabbits and woodcocks or squirrels and they wouldn’t be under gunned if the jumped some puddle ducks or pheasants.
They tended to not have gun collection beyond one rifle one shot gun one .22 rifle and one handgun. So the 16 gauge was a do it all compromise.
I still have my grand dads sixteen and try to take a day each fall to walk around and go pot hunt dinner with it. I’ve had grouse, duck, turkey, and rabbit. I haven’t resorted to squirrel yet.
They tended to not have gun collection beyond one rifle one shot gun one .22 rifle and one handgun. So the 16 gauge was a do it all compromise.
I still have my grand dads sixteen and try to take a day each fall to walk around and go pot hunt dinner with it. I’ve had grouse, duck, turkey, and rabbit. I haven’t resorted to squirrel yet.
Knob Creek
NES Member
I have my Grandfathers 16Ga SxS. Stevens. Beautiful gun. In its time the 'Sweet Sixteen' was the upland gun to have.
The sixteen carries like a twenty but hits like a twelve. Part of the reason for its lack of popularity is Skeet. When the rules for Skeet were drawn up they included 12, 20, 28 and 410. The 16 was left out in the cold.
Asaltweapon
NES Member
A good friend hunts deer and birds with a 16.
I have a Remington 11-48 and a Ithaca model 37 both in 16 gauge really great old upland game guns. I originally bought the the 37 so I would have a set of them in 12,16, and 20 gauge. I found that I really enjoy shooting 16’s.
KMM696
NES Member
My bird guns are both 16ga - an Ithaca 37 Featherlight and a Marlin 90. As much as I like them both, I don't believe there's anything a 16 can do that a current 20 or 12 can't, and there are certainly things a 12 can do that a 16 can't. In my case I've found two hunting guns I like, and will keep - but I'm under no illusions that they're magic.
Until I need to find ammo - then 16ga becomes a pain in the ass compared to 20 and 12. Reloading helps, like a lot of other uncommon calibers.
Until I need to find ammo - then 16ga becomes a pain in the ass compared to 20 and 12. Reloading helps, like a lot of other uncommon calibers.
KMM696
NES Member
Walmart's been one of my better sources, but it's still uncommon enough that I got into the habit of buying it whenever I see it in Wally World. Not that I get into them much, which might be the issue.
smokey-seven
NES Member
16's were first made for 2.5" shells. They started falling out of favor when 2.75" became the norm. As an aside, always check the chamber length on Browning A5's, I've found a couple that I was considering to be chambered in 2.5"
D
Deleted member 67409
On any old 16-gauge, or old shotgun of any gauge, period. Winchester introduced the 2.75" 16-gauge chamber on guns in 1931. Which, in old gun terms, is pretty recent.
There's also 2 5/8" chambers. The Model 12 I currently own had a 2 5/8" chamber when I bought it and I had it opened up to 2 3/4".
smokey-seven
NES Member
True, but Europe held on a bit longer.
Some of the Turkish makers still offer 16. One example:
Trinity - TriStar Arms
Pretty happy with my Tristar 28 ga. I have a friend who shoots one of these in 16 ga and he probably hunts more than anyone on this forum. He's had flawless service from his, same for me.
Trinity - TriStar Arms
Pretty happy with my Tristar 28 ga. I have a friend who shoots one of these in 16 ga and he probably hunts more than anyone on this forum. He's had flawless service from his, same for me.
I primarily hunt upland with 16G. The gauge just does a lot of things well, and I have no really problem finding shells. Well, until this year.
I know most of it is because my dad and his obsession with the gauge and his Sweet sixteen.
I have multiple 16G guns in the safe... including my dads A5.
I know most of it is because my dad and his obsession with the gauge and his Sweet sixteen.
I have multiple 16G guns in the safe... including my dads A5.
Mark from MA
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The 16 gauge was popular in the 50's, had a bit of resurgence in the 80's, and Browning will make a run of 16 gauge guns in Citori and others from time to time to this day. Which is nice, and my mind does flirt with buying a 16 gauge Citori. Some of the italian and turkish guns are still made in 16 as well. All good.
Ive killed a lot of deer dead with my Jap Browning Sweet Sixteen, buck barrel and foster slugs. I bought it back in 1986 when Browning reintroduced it. I also have a Belgian Sweet 16 that I hunt birds with that I picked up for short money years ago.
Personally I love the 16, and over the years I've had a few. I parted with a 16 Ithaca 37 featherlight that I will regret forever.
I just picked up a super cherry 1957 Ithaca Deerslayer in 16 gauge last year, I assume this is somewhat rare, and I don't think I can put a bird barrel on it without some fitting. So it's a deer getter. It takes the place of the Browning because I can't see the Browning sights anymore, and the Sweet 16 will go to my son if he wants to hunt deer with it.
If I ever see another 16 gauge 37 feather light i will buy it, athough I'm hunting with a 20 gauge Model 37 right now and its just a 5 pound delight to carry and kill birds with, i just keep picking it up and using it so much I wonder why I have all sorts of over and unders.
Ive killed a lot of deer dead with my Jap Browning Sweet Sixteen, buck barrel and foster slugs. I bought it back in 1986 when Browning reintroduced it. I also have a Belgian Sweet 16 that I hunt birds with that I picked up for short money years ago.
Personally I love the 16, and over the years I've had a few. I parted with a 16 Ithaca 37 featherlight that I will regret forever.
I just picked up a super cherry 1957 Ithaca Deerslayer in 16 gauge last year, I assume this is somewhat rare, and I don't think I can put a bird barrel on it without some fitting. So it's a deer getter. It takes the place of the Browning because I can't see the Browning sights anymore, and the Sweet 16 will go to my son if he wants to hunt deer with it.
If I ever see another 16 gauge 37 feather light i will buy it, athough I'm hunting with a 20 gauge Model 37 right now and its just a 5 pound delight to carry and kill birds with, i just keep picking it up and using it so much I wonder why I have all sorts of over and unders.
My Dad gave me a Remington 1100 16 gauge for my 18th birthday. I've taken Deer, squirrel, rabbit and ducks with it. Lost it in a house fire several years back, it was the best shotgun I've ever had! If memory serves me, the only sort of buckshot back then was #1 Buck.
tuna
NES Member
The perfect 16 is built on a 20 frame, but when makers stopped doing that and started building the 16 on a 12 frame, it became a self licking ice cream cone.
I can't remember the last time I used my 12 or 20 gauges. I gladly gave my 20 to my son, and he'll grow into the 12s. I tend to hunt only with 16's. I'd gladly dump my other shotguns and keep the 16s I have, as I find the balance between the 12 and 20 is just right, and there isn't anything I can't hunt with it in New England.
I will say, that the gun behind my door is a 12. As much as I like my 16's, for self defense, I went with a 12 due to the probability that I'd always be able to find ammo. Even in today's shortage, I'm pretty sure I can find a few shells in my underwear drawer and I'm betting I'm not the only one.
I can't remember the last time I used my 12 or 20 gauges. I gladly gave my 20 to my son, and he'll grow into the 12s. I tend to hunt only with 16's. I'd gladly dump my other shotguns and keep the 16s I have, as I find the balance between the 12 and 20 is just right, and there isn't anything I can't hunt with it in New England.
I will say, that the gun behind my door is a 12. As much as I like my 16's, for self defense, I went with a 12 due to the probability that I'd always be able to find ammo. Even in today's shortage, I'm pretty sure I can find a few shells in my underwear drawer and I'm betting I'm not the only one.
16GA has always been a hand-me-down gun for me... my whole life it's seemed like it's been teetering on the edge of falling into obscurity and only been propped up by the sheer volume of well made hand-me-down grouse guns. I don't meet people buying NEW 16ga unless they're enthusiasts, most are buying new-to-me guns. Eventually it will peter out. I know in the early 80s my father considered a 16ga for my mother and landed on a 20ga because he felt the former was on its way out and the latter had staying power.
I see .410, 20ga, and 12ga as being the only things to weather the test.
Look at 10ga smokeless... it was never SUPER common but it was around - especially as a goose-getter on the north shore and in Maine, and it's tough to shop for these days.
I see .410, 20ga, and 12ga as being the only things to weather the test.
Look at 10ga smokeless... it was never SUPER common but it was around - especially as a goose-getter on the north shore and in Maine, and it's tough to shop for these days.
My understanding is that the adoption of non-toxic shot killed the 16 ga. Over decoys, a 2 3/4"16 ga with #6 lead shot is ideal for ducks, though obviously not for the environment. When that became illegal, waterfowl shells instantly demanded more volume for the lower density steel pellets. I'm glad to keep the birds and wetlands healthy, and I'm too cheap to fire strategic metals at game birds, so I lob 1 1/2 oz of BBs from a 3.5" 12 ga shell at whatever duck is foolish enough to flap too close. My Cynergy is basically the SA-2 of waterfowling.
45collector
NES Member
I have a few boxes of Hevi Shot 12g 3” #2 that certainly get the job done. But I haven’t noticed a difference in how they perform against the cheaper non-tox shells like Kent. For the most part I just stick with Black Cloud 3” #2 these days as it’s the easiest to find and it patterns well in my SX4.
greencobra
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the .40 of the shotgun world it would seem. a lot of the same reasons listed are in the .40 threads.
I inherited a Browning Sweet 16 with a gold trigger. I am told it is a nice gun and worth a pretty penny. I am not a shot gun guy so I haven't done anything with it except to clean and oil it.
