The brush gun is not a myth

[whacko]

Hunters have known that heavy flat nosed bullets work better than Spitzer high velocity bullets in the brush since like.....forever. I've debated this with some folks over the last couple years. My claim is that a shotgun slug in thick brush under 50 yard is a better option and a 308. Been told by some folks I'm nuts. Anyway......this is the best damn video I've ever seen on the subject.

If your too busy to watch......steel plate at 50 yards.....shooting through 15 yards of scrub brush.......leave your 5.56 7.62x39 or 308 at home boys the bullets tumble and deflect terribly. The heavier the flat nosed bullet.....the more accurate it is through the brush.



View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5dve7vAY9I

 

[teaser452]

I thought this was common knowledge already? Even here in NC, where you can pretty much hunt with anything, I still see guys taking shotguns into the woods.

Not ideal for shooting wide open fields from a stand, but in the woods, where 50 yards is the max you can even see, shotguns rule.

308 excellent for those wide open fields though. Pick the deer off on the edges. That’s about as much fun as you can have and still have pants on!

 

[whacko]

I thought this was common knowledge already? Even here in NC, where you can pretty much hunt with anything, I still see guys taking shotguns into the woods.

Not ideal for shooting wide open fields from a stand, but in the woods, where 50 yards is the max you can even see, shotguns rule.

308 excellent for those wide open fields though. Pick the deer off on the edges. That’s about as much fun as you can have and still have pants on!

It is not common knowledge among some of the.....shall I say......younger.....more "tactical" crowd

These discussions came up in the past when zeroing the shotguns for deer season and conversations at the range.....when asked about the shotguns and I stated my personal preference for a 12 or 20 gauge slug on deer over a rifle based on where I hunt.....the 20 something tacticool members raised eyebrows and reply that a 5.56 or 308 velocity would just spit through brush.

Ah....no

 

[Palladin]

my 35Rem is safe.

 

[teaser452]

It is not common knowledge among some of the.....shall I say......younger.....more "tactical" crowd

These discussions came up in the past when zeroing the shotguns for deer season and conversations at the range.....when asked about the shotguns and I stated my personal preference for a 12 or 20 gauge slug on deer over a rifle based on where I hunt.....the 20 something tacticool members raised eyebrows and reply that a 5.56 velocity would undoubtedly just spit through brush.

Ah....no

Not only that, RE: 5.56, they do make hiring no bullets in that caliber. I have a box somewhere. And there’s are guys that shoot deer with them down here. I’ve avoided it, because while the ethics of a clean kill is important to me, I also don’t want to be slogging through 500 yards of crappy brush with snakes to find the deer I wounded. Need a really clean shot with 5.56. Heavier caliber, mo better.

/end derail

That said, being an old MA hunter, I still love my 20 gauge. Though down here in NC, I live in bear country. I have been advised to use my 12 on more than one occasion. Luckily, here in NC, we can carry 2 guns. Or, conversely, my 10 year old carries the 20 gauge with the red dot and I carry the 12 gauge. And a puny 9mm. Which just makes bears angry. They are .45 type guys.

I much prefer the stand on the edge of the woods though. Tough to find land to hunt here. Most of the land owners I’ve talked to have leased their lands to big food companies and have denied me permission, even when I bring my cute 10 year old with me. And there, I derailed the thread again. But I’ve got scouting and hunting on the brain right now.

 

[whacko]

Not only that, RE: 5.56, they do make hiring no bullets in that caliber. I have a box somewhere. And there’s are guys that shoot deer with them down here. I’ve avoided it, because while the ethics of a clean kill is important to me, I also don’t want to be slogging through 500 yards of crappy brush with snakes to find the deer I wounded. Need a really clean shot with 5.56. Heavier caliber, mo better.

/end derail

That said, being an old MA hunter, I still love my 20 gauge. Though down here in NC, I live in bear country. I have been advised to use my 12 on more than one occasion. Luckily, here in NC, we can carry 2 guns. Or, conversely, my 10 year old carries the 20 gauge with the red dot and I carry the 12 gauge. And a puny 9mm. Which just makes bears angry. They are .45 type guys.

I much prefer the stand on the edge of the woods though. Tough to find land to hunt here. Most of the land owners I’ve talked to have leased their lands to big food companies and have denied me permission, even when I bring my cute 10 year old with me. And there, I derailed the thread again. But I’ve got scouting and hunting on the brain right now.

Only 5 months left till deer season lol

 

[greencobra]

iraqveteran8888 did a couple of videos on this a few years ago testing several rifles thru thick brush with heavy, flat nosed bullets vs. pointed. no surprise, the heavy bullets smashed their way to steel plates set up ~ 50 yds out in thick brush while the others were more times than not deflected by the smallest twig.

 

[Asaltweapon]

I thought everyone knew this.

Nothing stops a deer in its tracks like a 12 ga slug.

 

[45collector]

I thought everyone knew this.

Nothing stops a deer in its tracks like a 12 ga slug.

I've taken three deer with 12g slugs. One with 00 buck. I've never hunted deer with a rifle.

 

[whacko]

I've taken three deer with 12g slugs. One with 00 buck. I've never hunted deer with a rifle.

Even If I could hunt with a rifle.....I'd still use a 12 gauge slug.

 

[FrankNA]

.44 mag Ruger Carbine - old school & deadly! Great brush gun or even some distance up to about 100 yards or so - if you ever get that chance which is not too often around these parts. I hunt NH BTW. It's like hunting with a .22 (weight wise) only with a lot more kick ass!

Stock photo but looks just like mine. I've got a 1x4 Leupold on mine.

 

[BrianWilson]

Sorry....but if I'm going to freeze my ass off for hours on end and not see a GD thing it's at least going to be with a good looking gun.

 

[Mark from MA]

I thought everyone knew this.

Nothing stops a deer in its tracks like a 12 ga slug.

Each tool has an intended use for an intended purpose......

50 yards and in ...yeah...pretty much. Ill take the shotgun. Thick brush and 25 yards and in...I'll take shotgun with the buckshot.

Much beyond that give me a scoped high power rifle and I won't be shooting thru that much brush if I can see beyond 100 yards.

Sit me in a bean field with a 200 yard shot, and the last thing I want is a shotgun.

A 12ga can fail in heavy bone/shoulder/neck intersections leaving a one broken shoulder/leg deer that keeps running forever. Ive seen it multiple times on big 200# bucks...that have been shot on or near the scapula, the scapula shatters and absorbs the hit, and the slug mushrooms out simply only penetrates either one lung or none. A one lung hit deer can run forever. If close enough and the deer is small enough, you may break the neck from shock.

If its a big one, it may not, which, I've personally witnessed it twice. Once from me on a deer I never found, I hit it from 30 yards away I aimed a bit too far forward, and it dropped got back up and ran away with a broken front leg....never found it. The other was my uncles, we found that one, it was a 198# buck, as there was good tracking snow and I shot it again in its bed when I helped him track it. The scapula was shattered, the slug was just under the skin right in front of it.

Where as with the rifle, that same big deer hit in the same spot with a .308 or 30-06 with a PSP would be on the ground with a broken neck/spine, as the penetration would be vastly superior, due to bullet speed/energy and smaller caliber size.

 

[Mark from MA]

Sorry....but if I'm going to freeze my ass off for hours on end and not see a GD thing it's at least going to be with a good looking gun.

View attachment 290342

LOL....Just bought a .308 FW myself. Beautiful guns.

 

[PL-52]

I love my Marlin .44 mag lever action for a brush gun 7 lbs. of pure punch! Really good up to 75 or 100 yards if I could see that far(LOL).

 

[whacko]

.44 mag Ruger Carbine - old school & deadly! Great brush gun or even some distance up to about 100 yards or so - if you ever get that chance which is not too often around these parts. I hunt NH BTW. It's like hunting with a .22 (weight wise) only with a lot more kick ass!

Stock photo but looks just like mine. I've got a 1x4 Leupold on mine.

My buddy has been using a ruger 44mag carbine since he was a kid......the same rifle. That rifle has killed an assload of deer over his lifetime.

 

[whacko]

Sorry....but if I'm going to freeze my ass off for hours on end and not see a GD thing it's at least going to be with a good looking gun.

View attachment 290342

I'm the opposite. My hunting guns are beat up cosmetically but work perfectly. Pushing laurel patches for deer puts alot of dents and scratches on the furniture. If I had a pretty gun out there I'd be too worried about it.......the beat up gun makes me a better hunter. No shortage of venison in my freezer over the years.

 

[Arto]

Uh, you are not supposed to take the shot until you can positively identify the animal from Tip-to-Tail, so brush shots are not a good idea....

 

[FrankNA]

Uh, you are not supposed to take the shot until you can positively identify the animal from Tip-to-Tail, so brush shots are not a good idea....

Not uncommon to positively identify your game through the brush and still have a viable shot. Take a walk through some jack pines and the deer beds where they lay and you'll know what I'm talking about.

 

[whacko]

Uh, you are not supposed to take the shot until you can positively identify the animal from Tip-to-Tail, so brush shots are not a good idea....

I know what a deer's head looks like. That's a positive identification.

 

[Coyote33]

OK, let's say you wanted a brush gun, maybe .44 Magnum. Henry, Marlin, or Ruger? Advantages/disadvantages to each?

 

[FrankNA]

Ruger (AFAIK) no longer makes the .44 mag carbine in any configuration - which is a shame as it was a classic, premier, semi auto carbine deer rifle in the day (my day & age I guess - I'm old). I think your limited to bolt or lever action type rifles in this caliber range these days, although I could be wrong. Henry's or older Marlins (from my understanding) are great magnum rifles for hunting or home defense from what I've read - no actual experience except for my Ruger .44 Mag Carbine.

 

[whacko]

OK, let's say you wanted a brush gun, maybe .44 Magnum. Henry, Marlin, or Ruger? Advantages/disadvantages to each?

Henry.

Amazing quality.

I own 2 and they are fantastic long guns. Some hate the tube mag. I think it's a plus. But now they make a few models with the gate so sooner or later they probably all will.

But if ruger still made the 44 mag carbine i would buy one. They are hard to find used......folks that own them are not giving them up.

 

[BrianWilson]

I don't know how viable it is, but if Ruger came up with a 44 version of the PCC I'd be all over it.

 

[whacko]

Part 2.

Tests 12 gauge slug, buckshot and others.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zCOzNzIkN4M

 

[mousegunfan]

My brush gun is a short barrel 18" over under 12g. It's about 5" shorter than a pump.

 

[M60]

I'm a big Ruger .44 fan, for hunting. I have a couple of them, but I like the .45 colt, 16" Marlin, lever action a bit more. The .45 Colt can be loaded a bit hotter than the .44 magnum. They both bring home the Maine deer though.

 

[AHM]

A 12ga can fail in heavy bone/shoulder/neck intersections leaving a one broken shoulder/leg deer that keeps running forever.

Check out the article I linked.

I know what a deer's head looks like. That's a positive identification.

 

[308rifleman]

Each tool has an intended use for an intended purpose......

50 yards and in ...yeah...pretty much. Ill take the shotgun. Thick brush and 25 yards and in...I'll take shotgun with the buckshot.

Much beyond that give me a scoped high power rifle and I won't be shooting thru that much brush if I can see beyond 100 yards.

Sit me in a bean field with a 200 yard shot, and the last thing I want is a shotgun.

A 12ga can fail in heavy bone/shoulder/neck intersections leaving a one broken shoulder/leg deer that keeps running forever. Ive seen it multiple times on big 200# bucks...that have been shot on or near the scapula, the scapula shatters and absorbs the hit, and the slug mushrooms out simply only penetrates either one lung or none. A one lung hit deer can run forever. If close enough and the deer is small enough, you may break the neck from shock.

If its a big one, it may not, which, I've personally witnessed it twice. Once from me on a deer I never found, I hit it from 30 yards away I aimed a bit too far forward, and it dropped got back up and ran away with a broken front leg....never found it. The other was my uncles, we found that one, it was a 198# buck, as there was good tracking snow and I shot it again in its bed when I helped him track it. The scapula was shattered, the slug was just under the skin right in front of it.

Where as with the rifle, that same big deer hit in the same spot with a .308 or 30-06 with a PSP would be on the ground with a broken neck/spine, as the penetration would be vastly superior, due to bullet speed/energy and smaller caliber size.

I use Reminton Core Lokt in .308 when hunting deer with a rifle. The core/jacket bond is well engineered and proven over many decades. Last thing you want is a catastrophic separation of core and jacket which leaves a game animal grievously wounded and running away. Brush-busting rounds are interesting and make for lively conversation, but I will pass on the shot every time unless I can clearly see my target and what's beyond it. Safety first!

 

[Machete]

A guy with the nom de guerre of "308rifleman" positing about the benefits of .308? Sir, I suspect you of being biased!

I use Reminton Core Lokt in .308 when hunting deer with a rifle. The core/jacket bond is well engineered and proven over many decades. Last thing you want is a catastrophic separation of core and jacket which leaves a game animal grievously wounded and running away. Brush-busting rounds are interesting and make for lively conversation, but I will pass on the shot every time unless I can clearly see my target and what's beyond it. Safety first!