The Big Stink

[Weerd Beard]

Ok here's somthing to think about. Imagine you're in Mass, and you are forced to use lethal force, and kill an attacker.

It's a "Clean Kill" and everything you did was reasonable, and legal. And now the Goblin is dead.

Now after the moment is over, and now the GFW come out from under the rocks they hide under.

You are hit with a damagine civil suit (say because you were RESPONCIBLE and used JHP ammo, or had some pepper spray that you didn't use because it was the WRONG tool for the job)

And maybe some illigal sezuries of your guns by a draconian Police cheif, and a confiscation of your LTC (or a restiction).



You KNOW you did the right thing, and all this hardship comming onto you is just a manifestation of what's wrong with the world today.

You know with some well placed facts you can use your plight as an example to turn the tides back to the side of liberty.

What is the best way to do this and let the masses know how unjust you are being treated because you did somthing that THEY would do in the same situation?

Espeshally so that while you do this you aren't giving information that lawyers can use yo hang you.

Discuss:

-Weer'd Beard

 

[BigWarden]

Imagine you're in Mass

[shock] :::shudder:::

 

[Lynne]

Espeshally so that while you do this you aren't giving information that lawyers can use to hang you.

Now that's the $64,000 question, isn't it?

 

[BigWarden]

Imagine you're in Mass

[shock] :::shudder:::

All kidding aside, you have to figure that if you're on the receiving end of a laughable Civil suit, it's time to pony up the dough and get a lawyer on your side, to defend your interests and countersue ... "*sob* I was so traumatized and terrified for my life when Joe Badguy kicked in my door in the middle of the night ... I can't sleep, eat or work anymore. I didn't want to shoot him, I only use my guns for shooting targets, but he attacked me, I had no choice".

Truly though, I do everything in my power to limit my exposure and risk to States with ridiculous gun laws like Mass.

 

[mark056]

Mas Ayoob addresses the issues of what happens in the aftermath of a shooting in many of his LFI courses. If you cannot attend a course at least read his book "In the Gravest Extreme" and keep the number of a firearms specialty lawyer handy.

Given the fact that most prisons really aren't the country clubs that people would make them out to be, the old adage "far better to be judged by 12 than carried by six" is of little comfort.

You can just about expect a civil suit, and what might be regarded as frivilous to you, may not be interpreted that way by the court. Big Warden certainly came up with an ingenious argument for a counter-suit. It might play in New Hampshire, but I am not so sure that it would in Massachusetts. Imagine this scenario: "How can you say that you are the victim of Joe Badguy? He, afterall is the victim, a victim of society. It's not his fault that he terrorized you, it's your fault for not supporting programs that would lead him away from a life of crime. He's the victim, not you." Weak yes, but from my perspective, not out of the realm of possibility.

Mark

 

[KMaurer]

Probably the only positive aspect of the Massachusetts hoplophobe culture is that it makes my job so simple when it comes to discussing the use of lethal force with students. My standard spiel: "Considering what almost certainly is going to happen to you if you ever have to use potentially lethal force in self defense, if what the law says about lethal force or anything similar even enters your mind at the moment, the answer is absolutely and unequivocally 'No! Do not shoot! Find another alternative.' If the time to use lethal force should ever come, you won't give the slightest thought to anything other than staying alive. The only thing about the law you need to know is the following:
1) When the police show up, make sure your hands are empty and in plain sight;
2) Don't move the slightest except at their orders;
3) Other than expressing your fear for your life, do not say one single word;
4) Call the number on one of the cards I just gave you and consult with that person before making any statement."

Disgusting, isn't it?

Ken

 

[Lynne]

Disgusting, isn't it?

Yes. (I haven't mentioned lately that I really hate this state...I'm behind in my count. [roll] )

That's basically what we tell our "kids" too.

 

[Skald]

I sometimes do think about what I would do and first thing is try and clear my eyes from all the tears (calm and cool and collected during a fight but shaking and crying like a baby right afterwards from all the adrenaline etc running through my body). but I'd tell the officers I was in fear of my life and I am just so traumitized at it all. If they keep pressing I'd ask to make sure I have an attorney present, I mean, I am so traumitized I do not know up from down and left from right.

 

[Weerd Beard]

Espeshally so that while you do this you aren't giving information that lawyers can use to hang you.

Now that's the $64,000 question, isn't it?

It really is.

and that's some REALLY sound advise Ken.

Still after I talk to a lawyer, and make sure I can minimise the damage as best I can, I'm gonna sing to the rafters!
I'm gonna climb up on the cross and make myself a spectical of what this state has become, and do the best to make all the suffering I have to do the right thing is channeld into politcal and cultural changes that would help the next guy "like me".

Helping others who need help...its one of the big reasons why I'm a gun owner!

I would do this for you....and I hope you'd do the same for me.

Thanks

-Weer'd Beard

 

[Chris]

I'm going to be happy I'm alive. Really, if it comes to a discharge at a living, that's my one consolation. I'll worry about the rest later.

 

[Weerd Beard]

I'm going to be happy I'm alive. Really, if it comes to a discharge at a living, that's my one consolation. I'll worry about the rest later.

I agree with your statment, but I didn't like it from the moment you wrote it.

Took me a little while to put my thoughts into words.

I'll be very happy if they close the Coffin on an Old-Man Pirate surrounded by a large family and well-wishers. And never did I ever have to take a human life in this entire life......Yet I train and think about how to best handle that situation so that when a life-and-death situation properly without having to pause for thought.

I think the same thing should be said about AFTER the shooting. Because if it happens, chances are I'll be standing over a dead human being (that I shot) in my Jammies at an un-godly hour: Very emotional, and being asked questions by Police Officers.

You train your mind for this stuff so you won't make a mistake that could ruin your life forever.

-Weer'd Beard

 

[senorFrog]

How about this? Anyone know anything either way. I've thought about it before...

http://www.locktonrisk.com/nrains/index.asp

 

[snowjoker]

Here is a scenario that really happened to my family...Kinda long...Kinda on topic...Sorry....

My wifes uncle (Divorced) lived alone in Florida, he had a nice house, 2 cars, etc. He decided that he would take on a renter since he had extra rooms. So he did, the guy was a Police Officer from an adjacent town, so he thought what could be bad about that? Well one night while no one was at home his ex-stepson (Ex wifes son) came by with a frined, and the friend stole one of the Officers guns out of his car! Yes, His car.... no need to go there.... Well this kid then went and killed another kid (Drug dealer, on Purpose, no accident) with that gun. The police caught the shooter and he confessed to both stealing the gun and the shooting.

The family of the victim, then turned around and sued the shooter, the Officer, and my wifes uncle for wrongful death. The police officer convieniently disappeared...who knows where he went... There were witnesses that saw the kid steal the gun from the car, not the house, and yet the courts still let the suit go on.

This uncle past away last year (Case was still pending) after selling his house and moving back to Massachusetts. His mother and my Mother-in-Law became executors of the estate which was (at that time) a considerable amount of money and property. The attorney for his homeowners insurance eventually settled for $150,000 of which they would only cover $100,000 and the other $50,000 ended up coming out of the estate.

Now he knew that the officer had guns in the house, but he had no idea that he had a gun in his car. But they still got screwed because the gun came from "His Property".

Now doesn't that all sound like fun? My wife and family lose a close family member and then his estate get defouled because of something that he had no control over at all. And the person that actually owned the gun just vanished like a ghost.

 

[Ray P]

Truly though, I do everything in my power to limit my exposure and risk to States with ridiculous gun laws like Mass.

Aren't the rules "Time, Distance, and Shielding"?


Minimize your Time in MA (without speeding)
Maximize your Distance from MA by staying at least 2 states away, and
Maximize your Shielding from MA politicians by supporting pro-gun politicians in your home state!

At least, those are the rules as I remember them from my last RadCon (radical BS contamination) drill.

 

[reinbeau]

Jamie, that's just so awful, and sad, and unfair - I'm sorry to hear of it. Only tons of money and a high-powered lawyer could have done anything about it, I'm sure.

 

[Scrivener]

"You are hit with a damagine civil suit (say because you were RESPONCIBLE and used JHP ammo, or had some pepper spray that you didn't use because it was the WRONG tool for the job)

And maybe some illigal sezuries of your guns by a draconian Police cheif, and a confiscation of your LTC (or a restiction)."

Appalling lack of knowledge of Mass. law combined with appalling spelling - not a convincing argument.

Reality check:

G.L.c. 278, § 8A. Killing or injuring a person unlawfully in a dwelling; defense.

Section 8A. In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in said dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his dwelling at the time of the offense and that he acted in the reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said dwelling was about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling.

Got that? NO duty to retreat AND an affirmative defense to a criminal charge. But wait; there's more!

G.L.c. 231, § 85U. Death or injury to unlawful dwelling occupants; liability of lawful occupants.

Section 85U. No person who is a lawful occupant of a dwelling shall be liable in an action for damages for death or injuries to an unlawful occupant of said dwelling resulting from the acts of said lawful occupant; provided, however, that said lawful occupant was in the dwelling at the time of the occurrence and that he acted in the reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said lawful dwelling was about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said lawful occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall not be a duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling.


The above is a BAR to civil suits, which were the ostensible premise of your post.There is also ANOTHER iteration of the "no retreat in the home" rule. So much for the civil suit crisis.....

Note also that if your LTC is revoked/rescinded/suspended during the investigation - which is standard procedure - there are no "illigal sezuries [sic x 2]." The surrender of firearms upon the loss of license is statutory; transfer the guns to any duly licensed individual you choose during the pendency of the case.

There are enough wrong things in Mass. without making any up.
[roll]