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The Air Force is replacing its aging Beretta M9 pistol lineup with 125,000 Sig Sauer M18s.
- Thread starter Reptile
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![[troll]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/016.gif "Troll [troll]")
As a former USAF Security Policeman (now called security forces) I would be excited to get the M18. Since I am no longer in the AF I decided to get myself the M18 anyway. Just bought it today.
PS. It had all three magazines, no vouchers.
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Lol, no use? a pistol in service for 35 years? You figure at a bare minimum a ton of people had to get trained or qual with those things, at some point or another, or even people just carrying
them on duty somewhere, that puts wear on the gun. 35 years is nothing for joe-ccw type but LE/Mil service thats a long service interval for one model of handgun.
The cost justification thing is fairly idiotic, though. It's not like M9s ever cost a lot of money to begin with, it wasn't until recently that they even sold over 500 dollars at retail.
True. Every day you pick it up at the armory, go to the clearing barrel and rack the slide and dry fire the gun then insert mag. Same for return. It gets banged around getting in and out of vehicles and other things.
IDK Maybe it's just me but I would say the average owner puts far more rounds though it than a Security Policemen and they are still going strong.
KMM696
NES Member
What I think of when I picture the condition of the issued Berettas is watching a pilot helmet bag, stuffed to near bursting with M9s being dragged up the boarding stairs into a C17 and then dropped on the floor to get kicked, tripped on and shoved around by every passerby for 6 hours. Off the plane, tossed in the back of a truck, dropped in a corner of the secure storage vault, then picked up the next morning to repeat the whole thing. I cringed every time I heard that bag crunch off something. Who knows how the pilots treated them, or how many times they bounced off part of an A-10 while attached to a survival vest. Not shot a lot at all, but subject to something between active and benign neglect their entire lives.
It's a tough gun, if/when they are surplussed out most of them will be okay. They sure won't be pretty.
DarthRevan
NES Member
I’ll take MY Vertec over anything else on the market right now. That’s after swapping in the D-spring replacement, 92G safety conversion, metal guide rod, and getting a set of Trijicon sights on it. The gun was damn accurate before that for me and now it’s that much better.
My only gripe is finding a good holster that I like for it. (Damn your lack of IWB holsters GCode!)
The base 92FS/M9 leaves a bit to be desired.
My only gripe is finding a good holster that I like for it. (Damn your lack of IWB holsters GCode!)
The base 92FS/M9 leaves a bit to be desired.
amb
NES Member
Funny how that's what it comes down to. According to my FIL when their issue sidearms changed from 38s to 45s (yes, this was quite a while ago) nobody talked about stopping power, all anybody did was bitch about how much they weighed.
I just saw a Mass plate (one of the "US" series) that was "92FS". I was thinking somebody sure loved their gun but it's the same pattern (two numbers, two letters) as the rest of them and was probably just whatever was on top of the stack at the RMV. Bet they get some weird questions though.
E.Stoner
NES Member
Beretta 92 Orion - Dark Star Gear
This holster is our flagship product, and can be carried as an Inside The Waistband (IWB) holster or Appendix (AIWB) holster. It is also compatible with the PHLster Enigma System. No matter the configuration, the Dark Star Gear Orion Holster is the answer to the discerning shooter’s modern...
darkstargear.com
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Sir you are killing me! I'm trying so hard not to buy a 92xcompact this year! Dam you!View attachment 372407
Beretta 92 Orion - Dark Star Gear
This holster is our flagship product, and can be carried as an Inside The Waistband (IWB) holster or Appendix (AIWB) holster. It is also compatible with the PHLster Enigma System. No matter the configuration, the Dark Star Gear Orion Holster is the answer to the discerning shooter’s modern...
That was an horrific week for FAFB. The B-52 crash, at Fairchild, was that week.
![[halfmast]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/040.gif "Half Mast [halfmast]")
1994 Fairchild Air Force Base B-52 crash - Wikipedia
Wildcard
NES Member
All this talk of new lawsuits is confusing and concerning.
E.Stoner
NES Member
Not sorry.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
It's people piling on the original problem. How many ND's in a year over all. Now one of those yahoo's happen to have a sig p320 and now tell the police it went off by itself. Perfect excuse. Now bring in all the viper lawyers who smell blood.
Other than the slide mounted safety, (which is rather moot when carried with the safety off anyways) I like the ergonomics of the M9. What I don’t like is the size and weight.
Why, despite the AF having the M11, which weighs 13 oz less than the M9, and is smaller, which was suppose to be the conceal carry pistol, am I forced to try and conceal the M9? It’s stupid and annoying.
For non concealed duty carry, it’s totally fine.
If someones hands arent huge the mag release sucks and the arched backstrap sucks. Big time.
I agree otherwise. IMHO the military should have ended up with the M11 for everything, perhaps with a P226 length grip. The only problem with the M11 is lots of people smash their
pinky finger in the magwell/basepad junction area of the grip. This is because the grip itself is basically a c-hair too short.
Speak for yourself. My hands aren't huge and I have no issues with either of those things.
Speak for yourself. My hands aren't huge and I have no issues with either of those things.
I can shoot the gun, don't get me wrong. It's just that the thing is embarrassing. Like when I got my 92X the first thing I thought was "Oh, this is how the M9 should have been to
begin with, instead of the piece of dog meat it ended up being. "
NHKevin
NES Member
Are you USAF? When I was in we could use whatever holster we wanted as long as it had retention and we qualified at the range with it.
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Took the M 18 to the range yesterday.
It points for me. Grip filled my mitts well and was quite comfortable.
The thumb safety is either too small or too far back, take your pick, and the slide catch/release is kind of buried between the safety and the takedown.
Grouped up pretty good, better than I expected with the irons. Old eyes. Jury is out till the dot arrives. I think it's going to do really well though. The fixed sights shot to point of aim.
Had no malfunctions, and was pleased that it fed all the left over odds and ends including the long loaded 147's that I make for the X5 and only seem to work in that.
Even with what seems to be a fairly stout recoil spring there was not a whole lot of muzzle rise, even with those +P+ Federals. That takedown lever just makes for a wonderful "gas pedal".
Trigger ...well....meh. Could really benefit from the Gray Guns kit, which made a huge difference on the X5...but I did buy it for a real life carry so, we'll see. Maybe just go the Sig flat trigger and leave the springs alone.
A little chunky to hide well. I'd say it's kind of a 320 Commander, but holding it up next to a Commander, it's more....bigger I guess, there's just more of it. Have several holsters coming, has to be one of them I can live with, and I see more and more folks every day not doing a great job hiding their gat, so I'll live with it.
So far I like it. Like it a lot.
It points for me. Grip filled my mitts well and was quite comfortable.
The thumb safety is either too small or too far back, take your pick, and the slide catch/release is kind of buried between the safety and the takedown.
Grouped up pretty good, better than I expected with the irons. Old eyes. Jury is out till the dot arrives. I think it's going to do really well though. The fixed sights shot to point of aim.
Had no malfunctions, and was pleased that it fed all the left over odds and ends including the long loaded 147's that I make for the X5 and only seem to work in that.
Even with what seems to be a fairly stout recoil spring there was not a whole lot of muzzle rise, even with those +P+ Federals. That takedown lever just makes for a wonderful "gas pedal".
Trigger ...well....meh. Could really benefit from the Gray Guns kit, which made a huge difference on the X5...but I did buy it for a real life carry so, we'll see. Maybe just go the Sig flat trigger and leave the springs alone.
A little chunky to hide well. I'd say it's kind of a 320 Commander, but holding it up next to a Commander, it's more....bigger I guess, there's just more of it. Have several holsters coming, has to be one of them I can live with, and I see more and more folks every day not doing a great job hiding their gat, so I'll live with it.
So far I like it. Like it a lot.
E.Stoner
NES Member
I have baby hands and with a standard M9 mag release, I struggle to reach without doing some happy-hand-shit. With an extended release or vertec I am good to go.Speak for yourself. My hands aren't huge and I have no issues with either of those things.
I have the same problem with P226's which completely disappears with the right set of thin grips.
The baby hand struggle is real.
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Keeping in mind these are are military side arms with the mentality of one size fits all. That's not going to happen so you adapt and adjust with practice practice and practice. Your just not going to satisfy everyone and no one asks for opinions from the they guy or gal on the line. With that said I have immediate family members that work for SiG nice but I've taken the the Beretta and learn to live with it.
Except that it is, now.
I'm very familiar with the one-size-fits-all military mindset. It has its place. But if a manufacturer has found a way around it at a low bid that the military is willing to pay, then what's wrong with that?
I will say that a world of adjustable backstraps or interchangeable frames is really only likely to matter to MPs, who draw their weapons out of the arms room every day and (presumably) train with them. So commanders might be willing to authorize them to size their grips to their hands. In other kinds of units or MOSs, my guess is all the cool frame options will stay in their original packaging in the arms room, completely untouched and ready to be accounted for whenever the unit changes commanders.
And used as a Hammer. Paperweight. Chock Block. Prop-rod for anything. Helmet checker. Medics squaring off and playing quick draw.
Ah, the memories!
M9s were a popular item when there was a minor jump coming up. Everyone who could get away with it drew one so that they wouldn't need to jump a weapons case. Put it in one of those ratty old holsters, tape the crap out of it, and then never touch it until it's time to wipe it down and turn it back in.
Other than that, most of the company's pistols never left the arms room. I'm sure it'll be the same with this new one. Of course, that was the Army and not the air force. Is it possible to play the "trust game" with these Sigs? I'm not too familiar with their manual of arms.
Other than that, most of the company's pistols never left the arms room. I'm sure it'll be the same with this new one. Of course, that was the Army and not the air force. Is it possible to play the "trust game" with these Sigs? I'm not too familiar with their manual of arms.
Quite_Exasperated
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Marines officially roll out new M18 handgun - UPI.com
The U.S. Marine Corps officially began fielding the M18 Modular Handgun, its first new service pistol in 35 years, it announced on Wednesday.
upi.com
