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The Aftermath...

JayCaliber

JayCaliber

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Hello good people of NES. When I'm scrolling through the discussions I'm seeing lots of posts on is this or that legal, political figures, what gun to buy etc. All good info in these threads, not a doubt. However, I'd like some info on what happens after a home defense/self defense shooting. I've been buying guns and all types of ammo for 8 years now and want to have more understanding of the legal side of things outside of the actual firearms themselves.

A) I know in a home defense situation, the castle doctrine applies. You may only shoot if an intruder is in your home and you believe they are about to cause great bodily harm or death to you or someone else. Now if put a hole(s) in the bad guy(s) and the cops arrive after and it's 2am. What do you do next? What if the shooting happens in the yard or driveway?

B) Let's say you're on the street and an altercation happens. Whether you initiate the argument or not, the other party pulls out a knife, bat, brass knuckles or even a handgun approaching you. You end up using your carry weapon on them in public. You call the cops and cooperate. What next? Obviously you'd want to hire a lawyer, but what can further be expected in this situation/process?

If any of you have personal experience or know someone whose had these experiences please chime in (keep in mind, I'm in MA). I've heard of that bonded warehouse place and confiscation, but I'm not clear on if and when all that happens.

Having all the cool guns is great, but I want to be knowledgable of the legal process if I must defend my life with these them. Thanks.
 
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There are many, many people here well qualified to answer these questions. I'm not one of them. :)

From my limited knowledge, here in Mass., scenarios A and B are best avoided as both will cost you tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees and much anxiety at a minimum.
 
Let me tell you this one thing from experience:

Pull out your cell phone, open your contacts, and find your attorney. If you do not have one, change that right now. Find the phone number of someone like Jason Guida, and put him in your contacts under AAttorney Jason Guida- I use AA because in just about every case this will place him as your first contact. Trust me, when you need it you don't want to be fishing on the google for a phone number.

You don't have to use Jason, you don't even need to have someone on retainer, but have *something* because when the police knock it's too late.
 
mibro said:
There are many, many people here well qualified to answer these questions. I'm not one of them. :)

From my limited knowledge, here in Mass., scenarios A and B are best avoided as both will cost you tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees and much anxiety at a minimum.
Click to expand...
It cost that much for saving your own life even if you weren't wrong? Sheesh
 
JayCaliber said:
It cost that much for saving your own life even if you weren't wrong? Sheesh
Click to expand...

So-called castle doctrine is pretty squishy here in Mass in my limited knowledge. That altercation on the street? Running away as fast as you can is the gold standard of self defense, especially if you're a young person.

Hopefully one of the excellent lawyers here will show up with an example or two. Massachusetts ain't Texas. Hell, Texas isn't Texas any more.
 
Anytime you are involved in something where the cops show up and ask questions, talk to nobody

SHUT UP AND LAWYER UP is the first rule. " I'm sorry Officer, I will not talk to you without my Lawyer present" Even if you have not been read your rights, if you are talking to cops they are looking for something that you will eventually say that will give them cause to arrest you.

Am I being detained? Am I free to go? I would like to call my lawyer. That's it. Nothing more.

Ever see this? It is LONG but worth it.

 
Drix said:
Let me tell you this one thing from experience:

Pull out your cell phone, open your contacts, and find your attorney. If you do not have one, change that right now. Find the phone number of someone like Jason Guida, and put him in your contacts under AAttorney Jason Guida- I use AA because in just about every case this will place him as your first contact. Trust me, when you need it you don't want to be fishing on the google for a phone number.

You don't have to use Jason, you don't even need to have someone on retainer, but have *something* because when the police knock it's too late.
Click to expand...

This. N. Tassel Esq. is in my phone, though I doubt I'll ever be making my "one call." lol.
 
PS if you have not read Massad Ayoobs book,"In The Gravest Extreme" find a copy on Amazon and read it TWICE
 
Depends on what state you are in.
In MA I've been taught that you have the duty to retreat.
I was taught: (Pretty much) The best case scenario is to be locked in a room with no way out and the perp is smashing down the door trying to kill you. Then, you can shoot them.
.02 P
 
PaulR said:
Depends on what state you are in.
In MA I've been taught that you have the duty to retreat.
I was taught: (Pretty much) The best case scenario is to be locked in a room with no way out and the perp is smashing down the door trying to kill you. Then, you can shoot them.
.02 P
Click to expand...
They want me to hide in my own home that I worked hard to get while a low life who feels so entitled comes to take everything? HA that's funny.
 
On the street, I carry OC and a 4" lockblade knife (Cold Steel "Voyager"), which I use frequently as a tool. At home, I keep a 12 gauge folding stock 870 with extended mag tube loaded with three rounds of OO buck and three rounds of slug, alternated candy-cane style. My wife keeps a stainless Mini 14 loaded with M193 ball in 10 round magazines. We chose these firearms for their stopping power. If you shoot a home invader in MA, the number of rounds fired will be scrutinized by the cops and DA. If we drop the bad guy with one or two rounds, rather than a mag dump, it will likely work in our favor. To comply with MA storage laws, so they can't nail us on that charge after a home-defense shooting, we keep these two weapons in a quick-access VLine "closet vault".
 
you all are gonna wish the intruder killed you after the bill comes in from the haz mat/crime scene cleaning company for the mess you created while taking off the head of an invader with a 12 gauge at 10 feet. something else to deal with along with the legal ramifications.
 
greencobra said:
you all are gonna wish the intruder killed you after the bill comes in from the haz mat/crime scene cleaning company for the mess you created while taking off the head of an invader with a 12 gauge at 10 feet. something else to deal with along with the legal ramifications.
Click to expand...
Always something. Funny, I actually have a 590 Mossberg as a back up to my G19.
 
Drix said:
Let me tell you this one thing from experience:

Pull out your cell phone, open your contacts, and find your attorney. If you do not have one, change that right now. Find the phone number of someone like Jason Guida, and put him in your contacts under AAttorney Jason Guida- I use AA because in just about every case this will place him as your first contact. Trust me, when you need it you don't want to be fishing on the google for a phone number.

You don't have to use Jason, you don't even need to have someone on retainer, but have *something* because when the police knock it's too late.
Click to expand...
*******
USCCA: Self-Defense Education, Training, & Legal Protection
 
SFC13557 said:
*******
USCCA: Self-Defense Education, Training, & Legal Protection
Click to expand...

SFC beat me to it. If you have these concerns, you should get some form of firearms liability coverage and legal retainer coverage. USCCA is the one I have chosen as well, their mid-level Platinum program includes $1Mil Liability plus $150K legal retainer for about $350/year. They have a lot of resources and give you a card to carry with you that tells you what to do and not to do. You mention cooperate w/ the police: Below is an image of the post-incidents instructions on the back of their card. You don't say another word until you speak w/ a lawyer.

1.jpg
 
I cover this legal material in my NRA Personal Protection classes.

I also recommend numerous books that help students understand the legal and societal ramifications.

A good understanding of the law and how it gets applied can be received from reading Atty Andy Branca's book "The Law of Self Defense" available on Amazon. Also he runs seminars online. Law of Self Defense

Basically in MA, you will almost certainly have all guns/ammo/mags confiscated, lose your LTC and most likely arrested and charged with a crime. It is up to your defense counsel (who damn well better understand MA gun laws as well as criminal law) to invoke the exception under MGL C. 278 S. 8A.
 
I'm starting to think my guns are real useless now. Instruments of protection yet I'll be seen as a criminal anyhow and lose everything in the process.
 
Drix said:
Let me tell you this one thing from experience:

Pull out your cell phone, open your contacts, and find your attorney. If you do not have one, change that right now. Find the phone number of someone like Jason Guida, and put him in your contacts under AAttorney Jason Guida- I use AA because in just about every case this will place him as your first contact. Trust me, when you need it you don't want to be fishing on the google for a phone number.

You don't have to use Jason, you don't even need to have someone on retainer, but have *something* because when the police knock it's too late.
Click to expand...

I just added him to my contacts. Thanks!
 
greencobra said:
after the bill comes in from the haz mat/crime scene cleaning company for the mess you created while taking off the head of an invader with a 12 gauge at 10 feet.
Click to expand...

I think you can use goats, same as the ones that clean overgrown yards... or was it hogs?
 
PaulR said:
Depends on what state you are in.
In MA I've been taught that you have the duty to retreat.
I was taught: (Pretty much) The best case scenario is to be locked in a room with no way out and the perp is smashing down the door trying to kill you. Then, you can shoot them.
.02 P
Click to expand...

Not a lawyer and not giving advice, but MA does have Castle Doctrine, which applies "inside the 4 walls of your dwelling". The squishy part of the law is "the belief that great bodily injury or death was about to be inflicted". Not going to say much on that other than to say that knives are common and certainly dangerous, as are any number of other common household tools that an intruder could pick up and use...

"In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in said dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his dwelling at the time of the offense and that he acted in the reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said dwelling was about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling."

Having said that, seems if you need to use your firearms in self-defense, you will
1. be arrested and charged
2. have your firearms confiscated
3. have to prove to the DA/Grand Jury that it was a justifiable homicide

Seems like self-defense insurance is a good idea if you plan on ever needing to use your firearms in self-defense or else have deep pockets to pay for your defense.

The saying "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" still applies though.
 
JayCaliber said:
I'm starting to think my guns are real useless now. Instruments of protection yet I'll be seen as a criminal anyhow and lose everything in the process.
Click to expand...

Now you're getting it.

So, the Mass-correct answers to your questions are:

A. Hide and yell you're calling the police. If you're feeling particularly lucky also yell "I have a gun" though that means you have just assaulted the perp with a deadly weapon, I believe. (Disclaimer: IANAL).

B. Run away.
 

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