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The $399 "safe" thread

basskleff said:
^OK, so what's the alternative , buy a used, beatup $4000+ bonafide TRTL-6X60 unfurnitured jeweler safe, weighing 2+ tons, and have delivered by skidder and crane? That's realistic? Nobody will buzz through it. I've been down this road.
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That's why RSC is no longer a rating. It is broken down into 3. RSC-1 is where most RSCs fall. RSC-2 is the sweet spot, I think.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
My point is that you need to look beyond RSC to see if you got junk or a pretty decent gun safe. I was not saying that RSC's are bad; only that the designation covers a VERY wide range of quality and, in and of itself, is not an indication that a gun safe is particularly secure. Get a 14ga or 12ga RSC and hope that the ne'er-do-wells don't have long prybars, tools or more than 10 minute in your house. Move up to 10ga, 7ga or .25" and they get progressively tougher to breech either by springing the door; cutting or cutting and peeling.

Note that youtube videos of manufacturers demo of how tough guns safes are never show targeted attacks with power tools opening the side door. It's always attempts to open the front door, or banging on it with sledgehammers - which are not the ways to pull a job if destructive entry is not contraindicated.

The fact that the online safe specs BJ's lists include everything except wall thickness is what one would call a clue.

It's all about 9's of protection. A thin wall safe may give you one 9 (.90 chance of stopping the theft); a high end gun safe might take it to two nines (.99) and a TL30 possibly 3 9's. Like high end guns and cars, you pay more and more for less and less benefit as you move up the food chain.
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Wide range of quality, yes. That's why the RSC designation has been subdivided.
 
basskleff said:
Fair enough. The weight, in my mind, is the tell of quality. 1050 lbs for a non-jeweler-class, non-TRTL safe, for $1400 on sale is a pretty decent compromise, in my opinion. It means there is steel there. I have a Cabelas signature. I think it is 11 gauge. I was fixated like you on the possibility of (rather far-fetched) scenarios of undetected entry on other faces, but one's thinking goes right back to where you're talking. Technically, you're right. But it's a tradeoff. Who actually can afford and spend for a $10K + TRTL, jeweler-class gun safe plus the $1K+ to move it in with special equipment? You have to buy a safe sometime, when you need it.
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True on all points. I was not talking about undetected entry on other faces (pretty much impossible), but just cutting a big hole in the side of the safe:

Here is a nice video of a business whose profile and value proposition rated a TL safe that opted for a residential gun safe and had the side door opened. All of the Fortress brand safes I could find on line were either of unspecified thickness, 14ga or 12ga. Whomever specified the security for that pharmacy was an idiot - using an RSC for a high value obvious target business, and using a safe without a time delay opening and a secondary duress combination.



Off topic but I always question "valued at" in robbery reports - this one was "street value of up to one million dollars". It's like when a store is shoplifted, is the value the retail price of the object stolen; what it was on sale for at the time; what the proprietor would accept as an offer or the cost to the shopkeeper to replace the item in inventory? Everyone is always using the highest price to add to the drama, move charges to the felony level, and better negotiate with insurance. There was probably less than $10K of drugs in that safe at the "pharmacy price" as many of the CII drugs are old line cheapies, not the exotics.
 
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A Liberty ealert gives a great peace of mind for all safes in all configurations.
Added into all the other security it has the best return for the $$ IMHO.
 
Well, the good news is I have another safe for all the pistols, so I'm willing to bet I can actually fit 24 rifles in here if I tried, but that means taking the side shelves, divider, etc out. Which is what I'm going to do, because I'm not done with rifles yet.
 
LuvDog said:
How easy do you think it will be to change that lock? I’m not a fan of cheap electronic locks and would prefer manual.
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I want to circle back to this.

When I changed my 4 drawer lock, it was easy. I went from an old S&G Manual lock to a S&G Titan 2007. The actuators on both were deadbolt and had the same footprint.

This safe, as well as the other safes made by Heritage/Fortress/Wasatch Safes use Omega Solinoid actuator locks. In fact, videos I've seen also include Stack-On safes.

It is important to note that Omega is from what I gather from limited research, is the only company that makes this type of cheap lock.

mbausa.com

OMEGA Solenoid Lock & Key Override w/ Chrome Keypad

MBA USA, Inc. is a provider of locks, tools and training for locksmiths and security professionals.
mbausa.com mbausa.com

The footprint/actuator position is very different between the Omega and the S&G, and will need retrofitting to get it done. So I retract my original comment about changing the lock being easy.

For the benefit of this forum, here is a picture of the inside of a cheap residential security container for rifles:

IMG_20200430_192152.jpg

Now remember, I said I knew exactly what I was buying, and I stand by that.

Edited - the old lock on the Hamilton was a S&G Manual, not a Mosler
 
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CoastieRon said:
When I changed my 4 drawer lock, it was easy. I went from an old Mosler lock to a S&G Titan 2007. The actuators on both were deadbolt and had the same footprint.
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S&G calls their layout of holes mounting screws, etc the "Magic module footprint" allowing easy interchange of various S&G locks (and I believe, some other brands). The key if you are replacing one of the standard configuations is the type of bolt - draw bolt, swing bolt or snap bolt. With draw bolts, pay attention to the amount of draw force (more is better and less likely to be damaged from side pressure); the length of the bolt; and if you need tapped bolt holes in the end of the draw bolt.
 
babygorilla said:
Yeah, but if she gets your money, how can you afford those things?
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Bro, are you new to NES?
You get as many personal loans as possible, you take all the money out, buy gold and hide it.
You then sell the house, take the money and hide it. Declare bankruptcy. She gets nothing.

I learned that in the Economic Doom thread and every divorce thread on NES. it's on the internet, it must be good advice.

Joking aside ...

I read almost the entire thread, I like the idea of multiple small safes. I know it might not work for the OP due to his wife controlling him (JK), but that is what I was planning to do for several reasons, easy to move, easier to organize, I dont need to have everything in one safe... I understand their fire rating might bot be great, and their steel might not be the thickest, but this is the way I think about it ... if someone breaks into your house with an angle grinder, they already know what you have and any safe can be opened, I dont have any crazy expensive one of a kind guns, insurance can cover the cost. Also, Install a wifi camera in the room.
 
CoastieRon said:
Well, the good news is I have another safe for all the pistols, so I'm willing to bet I can actually fit 24 rifles in here if I tried, but that means taking the side shelves, divider, etc out. Which is what I'm going to do, because I'm not done with rifles yet.
Click to expand...

They sell kits to hang pistols on the inside of the door. I have one that is basically holsters velcroed to the door.
 
Broccoli Iglesias said:
Bro, are you new to NES?
You get as many personal loans as possible, you take all the money out, buy gold and hide it.
You then sell the house, take the money and hide it. Declare bankruptcy. She gets nothing.

I learned that in the Economic Doom thread and every divorce thread on NES. it's on the internet, it must be good advice.

Joking aside ...

I read almost the entire thread, I like the idea of multiple small safes. I know it might not work for the OP due to his wife controlling him (JK), but that is what I was planning to do for several reasons, easy to move, easier to organize, I dont need to have everything in one safe... I understand their fire rating might bot be great, and their steel might not be the thickest, but this is the way I think about it ... if someone breaks into your house with an angle grinder, they already know what you have and any safe can be opened, I dont have any crazy expensive one of a kind guns, insurance can cover the cost. Also, Install a wifi camera in the room.
Click to expand...
Bastard LMAO
 
jaypap said:
They sell kits to hang pistols on the inside of the door. I have one that is basically holsters velcroed to the door.
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The inner door of this container comes with 6 pistol pouches sewed to the door. I'm taking them off. Like I said, I have a 4 drawer actual safe that the pistols go in. This is a rifle only container.
 
CoastieRon said:
The inner door of this container comes with 6 pistol pouches sewed to the door. I'm taking them off. Like I said, I have a 4 drawer actual safe that the pistols go in. This is a rifle only container.
Click to expand...

Good, I didn't know yours came with a kit I haven't read this whole thread. Mine has 12 on the door I just figure the more weight the better.
 
LuvDog said:
So this is the inside of the wasatch safe you just bought? is there not a relocker?
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Yes, this is the inside of the safe. The box marked with the 105 sticker is the actuator - you can barely see the pin on the right of the 5 (safe is in open configuration). The key actually goes into that box as well from the front side of the door. The blue box is the keypad motherboard, and the black box (out of view to the left) is the alarm horn.

Relocker?
 
I read almost the entire thread, I like the idea of multiple small safes. I know it might not work for the OP due to his wife controlling him (JK), but that is what I was planning to do for several reasons, easy to move, easier to organize, I dont need to have everything in one safe... I understand their fire rating might bot be great, and their steel might not be the thickest, but this is the way I think about it ... if someone breaks into your house with an angle grinder, they already know what you have and any safe can be opened, I dont have any crazy expensive one of a kind guns, insurance can cover the cost. Also, Install a wifi camera in the room.
Click to expand...
More important to protect from fire than insurance. Unless you have a rider or $eparate gun policy,, loss by theft or mysterious disappearance is limmited to $2K +/- on most HO policies, but loss by fire or falling space debris is covered to the limit of household possessions.

Oh - store you angle grinder and metal cutting saw blades in your safe.
 
CoastieRon said:
Yes, this is the inside of the safe. The box marked with the 105 sticker is the actuator - you can barely see the pin on the right of the 5 (safe is in open configuration). The key actually goes into that box as well from the front side of the door. The blue box is the keypad motherboard, and the black box (out of view to the left) is the alarm horn.

Relocker?
Click to expand...

Well, that's off the list for cheap storage then... I don't want an electronic lock
 
308rifleman said:
During my younger days, I might agree, but in my late twenties, as a deck ape, I wrenched my back seriously in a struggle between a client and a mean-ass bull shark in Missisippi Sound. Never been right again. I told Jill all safes on ground floor unless you want a ground-crawling salamander for a husband!
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That’s why you get someone else to move it.
There’s a graphic I cant post here but it shows a guy moving a heavy sack with a red slash over it...

“Avoid back injury. Let some other c*** move it”
 
Rob Boudrie said:
More important to protect from fire than insurance. Unless you have a rider or $eparate gun policy,, loss by theft or mysterious disappearance is limmited to $2K +/- on most HO policies, but loss by fire or falling space debris is covered to the limit of household possessions.

Oh - store you angle grinder and metal cutting saw blades in your safe.
Click to expand...
I am talking about separate insurance. Not the home owners policy.
 

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