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The 1918 'Shotgun Protest'...

enbloc

enbloc

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Found this interesting about how the Germans of WWI looked upon the Winchester M-97 'Trench Gun'...


The 1918 Shotgun Protest

Charles A. Jones

In the final year of World War I, the United States armed its forces on the Western Front with pump shotguns. Germany wasn’t pleased.​

Millions of combatants in World War I were killed by all manner of weapons, including aerial bombs, artillery, bayonets, hand grenades, pistols, revolvers, and rifles. The machine gun, the war’s most prolific killer, slaughtered untold thousands. Poison gas brought its own horrific casualties. Yet only one weapon—the pump shotgun American troops used beginning in 1918—led to a diplomatic protest. Ironically, the protest came from Germany, which during World War I had unleashed on its enemies such instruments of killing as the Zeppelin airship bomber, the Maxim MG-08 machine gun, the Type 93 U-boat, the Big Bertha howitzer, the Paris Gun, and, of course, chlorine gas. (See link above for the rest of the article)
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1609810744268.png
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dgrantdoherty said:
Is that bayonet to scale? I hope so
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Yes. M1917. 17 inches.

The trick is finding one that hasn't been 'shortened'. They're out there but getting harder/pricier to find...

Q. I just purchased an original World War I, U.S.-issue Model 1897 Winchester “trench gun” with a heat shield and bayonet lug. I’d like to get the right bayonet for it. A collector friend told me there were separate Model 1917 bayonets intended just for the trench gun. Is this true? And, if so, how I do tell?

A. There was no “special” Model of 1917 bayonet made for the U.S.-issue trench guns. The reason the Model of 1917 rifle bayonet was selected for use with the trench gun in the first place was to simplify logistics. They were already in production at Winchester, Eddystone and Remington-the makers of the U.S. Model of 1917 Rifle. There would have been absolutely no reason to put a special shotgun bayonet into production, as that would have served no purpose whatsoever, and it would only have complicated logistics. The standard M1917 rifle bayonet worked just fine.

There is one caveat, however. Winchester did produce some commercial production M1917 bayonets after World War I that were identical to the pre-1919, U.S. military contract M1917 bayonets, except these were marked only with a circled “W” on the ricasso and had no martial markings. These were presumably made for use with the commercial-production Model 1897 trench guns made in the late 1920s or early 1930s. In any event, these were not military bayonets and were certainly not issued by the military with trench guns during World War I or subsequently.

-Bruce N. Canfield
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1609814725497.png

TOP = M1905 Bayonet (16-inch)
BOTTOM = M1917 Bayonet (17-inch)
 
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dgrantdoherty said:
150-200 bucks online isn't Terrible
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I'm a milsurp stickler, but I did go with a repro on this particular item. Because I don't look at my Norinco as a collector's item; it's just a badass piece of iron. So the bayo can just be badass too, not genuine.
 
Picton said:
I'm a milsurp stickler, but I did go with a repro on this particular item. Because I don't look at my Norinco as a collector's item; it's just a badass piece of iron. So the bayo can just be badass too, not genuine.
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I'll get a real one someday, but I like having the Norinco because I'm not worried about abusing it
 
Certainly reaffirms my belief that within a certain distance, shotguns are hard to beat when it comes to looking for a fight stopper. My FIL (Marine Lieutenant) carried a shotgun (and a 16, as he says) for both of his tours in Vietnam. He’s eluded to shotguns receiving the same sort attention from the Vietnamese as the Germans seem to have given it in WWI.

I like the trench guns (my modern 590 also has a bayonet lug) but I like more so the Ithaca 37 as a classic. Bottom ejecting, slam firing, prohibition era sonofabitch.
 
Tinkermatic said:
Certainly reaffirms my belief that within a certain distance, shotguns are hard to beat when it comes to looking for a fight stopper. My FIL (Marine Lieutenant) carried a shotgun (and a 16, as he says) for both of his tours in Vietnam. He’s eluded to shotguns receiving the same sort attention from the Vietnamese as the Germans seem to have given it in WWI.

I like the trench guns (my modern 590 also has a bayonet lug) but I like more so the Ithaca 37 as a classic. Bottom ejecting, slam firing, prohibition era sonofabitch.
Click to expand...
Does your 590 match your bunny ears? 590s are badass shotgun too. Fun stuff. I have a 590 with a door breaching barrel. For uh reasons
 
I used to dabble, in a moderate way, but not in US bayos. The Brits always had too many manufacturers; in the end, collecting all the Webleys was easier.
 

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