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Texas man suing MA

True, but even in Heller (originally Parker v DC), the original 6 defendants were carefully chosen and vetted...
Which they should not have had to do in EITHER case (be "chosen" nor "vetted" etc)...
"Shall not be infringed"... (nor chosen, nor vetted). The friggin law is - should be - the law. Period. Done. And not selective nor subjective, etc. Either that or just burn the g*ddamned Constitution... and from sea to shining sea we'll just all live happily ever Chusetts.

(It's amazing how many gun owning Americans have become "conditioned" to regulation).

Just sayin'
 
There is no perfect guy.
James Madison came close...
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Again: the land of ideals is a simple place. The real world is harder.

Too bad we don't live in the land of ideals.
 
Which they should not have had to do in EITHER case (be "chosen" nor "vetted" etc)...
"Shall not be infringed"... (nor chosen, nor vetted). The friggin law is - should be - the law. Period. Done. And not selective nor subjective, etc. Either that or just burn the g*ddamned Constitution... and from sea to shining sea we'll just all live happily ever Chusetts.

(It's amazing how many gun owning Americans have become "conditioned" to regulation).

Just sayin'

Reality is a thing, get used to it. I agree 100% that none of these laws should exist, this guy got screwed, and in any sane country none of this would happen. But rolling back laws needs to be done within the system, throwing around "Shall not be infringed" gets you nowhere. The other side will fight with regulations, laws, the court, and in the press. If we try to fight that with rhetoric, we lose. Fixing nearly 100 years of bad laws and bad case law doesn't happen overnight, I'm certain that if we do things right that we will prevail, but it has to be done the right way.
 
I was wondering the same thing. If he has a felony conviction this is all moot, if it hasn't been settled yet the SJC isn't going to even look at the case, and even if he gets a non-conviction in TX that'll be enough for a suitability denial inb MA. There is no good coming from this and the kid doesn't get it. Besides, it's go Fed or go home.

This isn't just rhetoric to me, I have real skin in the game (although not PP like this guy). And despite my rantings to Rob and Brent I do get the difficulty of the situation.
His issue is not suitability. His goal to is to become an unprohibited person federally.

- - - Updated - - -

Again, I fail to see how hanging one person out to dry is justified by you waiting around for this mystical perfect client while years and decades of abuse continues.

It is about a realistic assessment of the chance of success.
 
This is a bad case for sure, but I will add another twist that has not been mentioned yet. It goes parallel to 2A. This guy, whether you agree with his decision or disagree, whether you agree it will be bad precedent or not, whether it is in your long term best interest or not, has the right to do what he is doing. Essentially, what I am reading here is that this guy should forfeit his rights because of your agenda. I see no justice in that.
For whatever reason, this guy feels like he was wronged and he wants to take it to the next level. What I am reading is people saying to just accept the original decision, stay a federally prohibited person forever and accept that.
Personally, I would not be so short sighted and selfish and continue this case if could have detrimental negative outcomes but at the same time I can not ask someone to forfeit his right because of it.

The underlying problem is the system is broken. Instead of directing frustration toward someone invoking his rights, you should direct your frustration at the system. Instead of complaining about this guys ideallogy and how short sighted it is, complain about the states anti 2A ideallogy.

"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
 
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No, it's his right.

We've got all kinds of rights. Some folks exercise them irresponsibly, though, and the rest of us have a right to criticize that if it might negatively impact us.
 
No, it's his right.

We've got all kinds of rights. Some folks exercise them irresponsibly, though, and the rest of us have a right to criticize that if it might negatively impact us.

Thanks, fixed it.

So then is the criticism here on what he is saying or on his right to say it. I sense the latter.
 
Thanks, fixed it.

So then is the criticism here on what he is saying or on his right to say it. I sense the latter.

I do complain about this state's anti-rights viewpoint among many other things. As for the SJC appeal, of course it's his right to file it and follow it to its bitter, crashing, inevitable end. I would not take that right away from him, even though I think it's a bad idea. His exercising his right is going to cost me and others down the road, and that's what I take issue to: his personal assessment of his chances of winning on one hand (infinitesimally small) vs. the potential for bad case law (vastly larger) in the other hand. These things do not nearly balance.
 
Thanks, fixed it.

So then is the criticism here on what he is saying or on his right to say it. I sense the latter.

Does it matter?

Once the courts are involved, that distinction rests with a judge or a group of judges. We are criticizing the fact that this particular court, at this particular time, is going to choose to use this guy's right to continue his hopeless case as a way of subjugating future claimants.

His choice to continue, made without any apparent reflection about whether doing so is wise, is going to result in a precedent that might one day result in me, of you, or any of us, losing our rights. Five minutes of sober reflection by this halfwit should have told him that continuing to pursue this is not responsible conduct; that he'd be better off cutting bait, since moving forward will only waste his time and strengthen efforts to limit all of our rights.

Your questions and reservations, along with those of the other idealists posting here, are sincere. But they presuppose a world in which justice really is blind. It's not. Not where guns are involved in Massachusetts. We all know this; he should have known this too, back when he foolishly broke the law in the first place.

A dumb law? Sure. But ironically, his subsequent actions are only going to make that bad law stronger and easier for the State to enforce. Versus Comm2a's efforts to undermine those laws.
 
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Whats the chance of success when no challenge is ever attempted because you can never find this mythical perfect candidate?

No need to answer. It's rhetoric.

The probability is this guy winning is 0. The SJC chose to hear it because they know he's half retarded and they want to prevent a sympathetic case from ever getting a bite at the apple. What is so hard to understand about this?

The probability of a sympathetic plaintiff, who is represented by an actual lawyer, being successful is better than 0.
 
I agree his chances are less than hopeless. I believe it is a very bad choice. Yes he should sacrifice for the greater good.
Perhaps it is even further ideallogical of me to think that the inevitable outcome albeit bad may ultimately be an additional straw that is placed on the camels back.



Does it matter?

Once the courts are involved, that distinction rests with a judge or a group of judges. We are criticizing the fact that this particular court, at this particular time, is going to choose to use this guy's right to continue his hopeless case as a way of subjugating future claimants.

His choice to continue, made without any apparent reflection about whether doing so is wise, is going to result in a precedent that might one day result in me, of you, or any of us, losing our rights. Five minutes of sober reflection by this halfwit should have told him that continuing to pursue this is not responsible conduct; that he'd be better off cutting bait, since moving forward will only waste his time and strengthen efforts to limit all of our rights.

Your questions and reservations, along with those of the other idealists posting here, are sincere. But they presuppose a world in which justice really is blind. It's not. Not where guns are involved in Massachusetts. We all know this; he should have known this too, back when he foolishly broke the law in the first place.

A dumb law? Sure. But ironically, his subsequent actions are only going to make that bad law stronger and easier for the State to enforce. Versus Comm2a's efforts to undermine those laws.
 
Yes he should sacrifice for the greater good.
Very easy to say when you aren't the one who would be sacrificing your professional career (law in this case) and gun rights for life.

That being said, this person just doesn't understand he is not taking a longshot - he is taking a "no shot". I suspect that being a fugitive from justice at the time of the charge is why he got 26 months for a regulatory/licensing violation in the first place, and that little detail certainly won't be lost on the court when deciding this case.

As K. Dragger observed, the SJC selects cases to issue desired precedents.

Also, even if his 2A challenge succeeds on the handgun, he would have to be going against a well established trend in other districts to rule that the 2A does not cover possession of evil rifles.
 
This isn't about becoming a lawyer, I'm sure there is law school willing to take him if he has the money, just not this one. He just wants to have guns, I get that, but with ALL the charges, and a real lack of common sense, that's not going to happen. It's a meaningless discussion if he gets/has a conviction in TX.

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The probability is this guy winning is 0. The SJC chose to hear it because they know he's half retarded and they want to prevent a sympathetic case from ever getting a bite at the apple. What is so hard to understand about this?

The probability of a sympathetic plaintiff, who is represented by an actual lawyer, being successful is better than 0.

Wow, point missed massively. How long has MA had these laws? How many times have they been challenged? How many times, regardless of the circumstances have those challenges been successful? Ever found one of these mythical sympathetic perfect candidates before?

And if they get to chose who they hear, not to mention the fact, they issue the rulings, what exactly are they preventing?


You really didn't think that one through, did you?
 
Wow, point missed massively. How long has MA had these laws? How many times have they been challenged? How many times, regardless of the circumstances have those challenges been successful? Ever found one of these mythical sympathetic perfect candidates before?

And if they get to chose who they hear, not to mention the fact, they issue the rulings, what exactly are they preventing?


You really didn't think that one through, did you?

Realize that the SJC doesn't have to accept every case. Realize, further, that they've got an agenda: they dislike expansion of firearms rights.

With those two things in mind, is it really so difficult to comprehend where the "sympathetic perfect candidates" went? SJC simply didnt have to accept their cases.

Meanwhile, every time a case like this comes up and gets decided as we all assume it will get decided, it makes future "sympathetic perfect candidates"... well, imperfect and unsympathetic. Because precedent.

So, yes. Thought it through just fine.
 
Realize that the SJC doesn't have to accept every case. Realize, further, that they've got an agenda: they dislike expansion of firearms rights.

Yes...

With those two things in mind, is it really so difficult to comprehend where the "sympathetic perfect candidates" went? SJC simply didnt have to accept their cases.


That is exactly my point. But billy boy and many others seem to think it's somehow this guys fault for other cases not being accepted.

Meanwhile, every time a case like this comes up and gets decided as we all assume it will get decided, it makes future "sympathetic perfect candidates"... well, imperfect and unsympathetic. Because precedent.

Well you usually need standing to challenge a law, and that usually comes via a conviction. News flash, if they rule against him, as assumed, it doesn't change anything. The same laws will still apply.

So, yes. Thought it through just fine.


Hardly.




Based on many comments here, I feel less bad about the BS laws you MA folks have to deal with. I'd think you'd want to support someone challenging an unconstitutional law, but I guess I was wrong. No wonder your laws suck, you guys bend over and take it with glee, evidently. I'm sure that magic unicorn will be by soon with the perfect set of circumstances to set everything straight.
 
I recently rewatched the John Adam series and find the parallels between the discussion in this thread and the events as depicted in the series very interesting.

Corrupt gov violates people's rights.
Some want to keep their heads down and maybe they won't lose too many more rights.
Others try to work within the system to correct the injustice.
Still others are further down the path, see the other options as fruitless and say let's get the party started already.

we all agree this man's rights have unjustly been taken by a corrupt and tyrannical government. We just disagree if he should keep his head down as to not provoke the British to the further detriment of us all or start throwing rocks at the regulars to his sure death.
 
In throwing himself against the wall, this guy in this case is not going to cause a dent or a crack. Instead, he'll just become another layer of slime serving to make the wall thicker and even harder to take down.

It's not about keeping his head down and it's not about meekly begging the powers to please not impose any more. It's about not screwing ourselves.
 
I recently rewatched the John Adam series and find the parallels between the discussion in this thread and the events as depicted in the series very interesting.

Corrupt gov violates people's rights.
Some want to keep their heads down and maybe they won't lose too many more rights.
Others try to work within the system to correct the injustice.
Still others are further down the path, see the other options as fruitless and say let's get the party started already.

we all agree this man's rights have unjustly been taken by a corrupt and tyrannical government. We just disagree if he should keep his head down as to not provoke the British to the further detriment of us all or start throwing rocks at the regulars to his sure death.

The difference between now and then is that NOW whatever you say/chat in public (or even in private) is discoverable by the ones that are responsible for the suppression you mention. So who is brave enough to call it what it is?
 
This guy doesn't know his ass from his elbow. Perhaps the fact that he can't find an attorney in MA that believe passionately in rights ISNT because they don't exit, but because he is ****ing delusional as to the reality of the result of his case.

If that is the case, then I hope to god no one ever has to have this guy as an attorney (assuming he got to finish law school and the bar association let him in, I don't know if they did or not).
 
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