Texas is pro gun but……

[Bob P]

Are you sure you're not me? I got mine in part because it allows me to carry in SC. As you probably know, you can only get a non resident permit there if you live in a contiguous state or own property in SC.

My son and his family live just across the line from Charlotte, NC. It used to be a PITA to bring a gun there because what was the point if I couldn't carry. Constitutional Carry is legal there, but it's like Texas where having a LTC allows you to carry places you can't without a license.

Grands in Greenville. Great area!

 

[Garys]

Ours are up in Lancaster County. Going there end of April - early May to referee them while the parents are on vacation for a few days.

Grands in Greenville. Great area!

 

[KBCraig]

You can’t sit at the bar if you’re carrying.

False

You can’t carry in an establishment that makes more than 51% of its income from the sale of alcohol

True

and you can’t carry if you’ve had any alcohol at all to drink.

False

 

[KBCraig]

BTW, do you know about Texas3006.com - Your 30.06 & 30.07 Information Resource

I'm a regular on the forum there. It's small and not very active, but activity depends mostly on how much the infamous Chas. Cotton has been in the news for enabling WLP's grift.

 

[Qwikdraw45]

I believe one of these two locations was Scottsdale Arizona. They got some kind of fancy gun club.

I don’t care for the people I prefer the desert

Ah, Snottsdale...errr, Scottsdale Gun Club. It was a nice place to shoot. Just not close enough to make the trip very often.

As to NH, look to your west at Vermont. Everything they do will be coming down Route 89 faster than you can believe.

And Maine, as well. We are surrounded, and everyday is a fight to keep it out.

 

[Stape]

Texas has never been pro-gun. Texans just like puffing up their image that way, because people assume it's true.

From 1875 until January 1, 1996, it was illegal to have a handgun "on or about your person" in Texas. Period. Open, concealed, in a case or bag, whatever. There were some exceptions, like being en route to a "sporting activity" that "normally requires use of a handgun". There was the infamous "on a journey" exception, which had no statutory or statewide case law definition.

Enforcement was all over the place, because the vagueness was intentional. "Those people" got busted when "the right people" wouldn't. It took equal enforcement of the law (or the perceived risk of equal enforcement) for Texas to finally legalize any carry at all.

I don't know that it was "it took equal enforcement of the law" but the Lubys shooting was the biggest push for TX CC

 

[cams]

For Texas (op state) you can’t carry if you’ve had any alcohol at all to drink.

Wrong. It’s 0.08 BAC while carrying in TX.

 

[drgrant]

Your cool.......Im sure its done down here all the time too with CC.

I follow my Dad's teaching and pretty much every other teaching that guns and booze don't mix well.

The problem comes when you have to use it....in any state........you think in MA if your drunk with a pistol and use it they aren't going to absolutely screw you?

Ill argue they find you drunk at a bar with a pistol on your hip even if you don't use it.....MA cops will think of something I'm sure......

Good luck with that.....

Not everyone here lives in mass or cares

 

[Bob P]

False


True


False

The TRA recommends not sitting at the bar while carrying even if the facility isn’t a 51% as the statute is squishy on that - like the new abortion of a gun law MA passed. YMMV

 

[Mark from ?]

I don't agree with the state having limitations on carrying at bars or anything either, that's not what Im saying.
And Im not saying that a beer or two while carrying is anything big deal either same as driving.

But if your gonna say drunk carrying, shooting or hunting is a good thing...... Well we can respectfully disagree and leave it at that, everything I've
been taught about firearm safety is the opposite, and seen some damn stupid ass shit when people are drunk...never mind drunk with a firearm.

Shoot first, beers after....works for me......

If its gay for you and you like to get hammered while shooting or carrying that's good for you.

 

[KBCraig]

I don't know that it was "it took equal enforcement of the law" but the Lubys shooting was the biggest push for TX CC

Dr. Suzanna Hupp was elected to the Texas House on that; her parents were killed there while she was having lunch with them.

She testified that she had left her .38 revolver in her glove box because of fear that she would lose her chiropractor license if she was caught carrying. But, the law in Texas at that time was the same for carrying on your body or accessible anywhere in your car ("Unlawfully Carrying a Weapon", Penal Code 46.02). As a professional surburban white woman she was probably pretty safe, but even she worried about the law being enforced against her.

 

[KBCraig]

Wrong. It’s 0.08 BAC while carrying in TX.

I haven't kept up with changes in the last decade, but when I moved from TX in 2012, there was no BAC standard for carrying while intoxicated. It was simply "intoxicated", by the same standard as public intoxication (which had no BAC standard, merely the officer's judgment that the person was impaired to a degree that made them a danger to themselves or others. Carrying while DWI would be an automatic charge, but just carrying while not driving would be a judgment call.

I just checked the statutes. Doesn't look like they've changed.

Texas Penal Code 46.02 "UNLAWFULLY CARRYING WEAPONS"
(a-6) A person commits an offense if the person:
(1) carries a handgun while the person is intoxicated; and
(2) is not:
(A) on the person's own property or property under the person's control or on private property with the consent of the owner of the property; or
(B) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft:
(i) that is owned by the person or under the person's control; or
(ii) with the consent of the owner or operator of the vehicle or watercraft.

 

[cams]

I just checked the statutes. Doesn't look like they've changed.

Texas Penal Code 46.02 "UNLAWFULLY CARRYING WEAPONS"
(a-6) A person commits an offense if the person:
(1) carries a handgun while the person is intoxicated; and
(2) is not:
(A) on the person's own property or property under the person's control or on private property with the consent of the owner of the property; or
(B) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft:
(i) that is owned by the person or under the person's control; or
(ii) with the consent of the owner or operator of the vehicle or watercraft.

46.035(d) goes into more detail with the BAC. Just another way to hem someone up by adding a breath test if you’re not an obvious PC.

 

[KBCraig]

46.035(d) goes into more detail with the BAC. Just another way to hem someone up by adding a breath test if you’re not an obvious PC.

View attachment 981358

PC 46.035(d) was repealed, and nothing in other sections of PC 46 refer to the definition in PC 49. Under Texas code construction, absent a specific definition or referral to a definition as used in another section, the "common definition" is used.

 

[drgrant]

But if your gonna say drunk carrying, shooting or hunting is a good thing...... Well we can respectfully disagree and leave it at that, everything I've
been taught about firearm safety is the opposite, and seen some damn stupid ass shit when people are drunk...never mind drunk with a firearm.

If you do "stupid ass shit" while intoxicated you should probably not be drinking. Because not carrying gun isnt going to stop you from getting in trouble.

 

[cams]

PC 46.035(d) was repealed, and nothing in other sections of PC 46 refer to the definition in PC 49. Under Texas code construction, absent a specific definition or referral to a definition as used in another section, the "common definition" is used.

I can’t keep up with gun lawrs. After being in MA my attitude was so bad I just didn’t care anymore about what politicians and lawmakers say.

 

[Stape]

Dr. Suzanna Hupp was elected to the Texas House on that; her parents were killed there while she was having lunch with them.

She testified that she had left her .38 revolver in her glove box because of fear that she would lose her chiropractor license if she was caught carrying. But, the law in Texas at that time was the same for carrying on your body or accessible anywhere in your car ("Unlawfully Carrying a Weapon", Penal Code 46.02). As a professional surburban white woman she was probably pretty safe, but even she worried about the law being enforced against her.

I am familiar with Suzanna Hupps' story. Tragic.

 

[Mark from ?]

If you do "stupid ass shit" while intoxicated you should probably not be drinking. Because not carrying gun isnt going to stop you from getting in trouble.

This. Carrying a gun will only make that situation epically worse.

Many people have perfect control when they are drinking but in a situation where you now have to use your firearm...if drunk, witnessed drinking, etc....you now open floodgates of questions, doubts, liability and lawsuits. As if there wasn't enough already for just using it stone sober.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I am familiar with Suzanna Hupps' story. Tragic.

So am I. I heard her speak at the GOAL rally in Carver back in 1999 and I spoke with her briefly shortly after her speech. I've also watched her testimony (forget if it was TX or DC) on the matter.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

I don't agree with the state having limitations on carrying at bars or anything either, that's not what Im saying.
And Im not saying that a beer or two while carrying is anything big deal either same as driving.

But if your gonna say drunk carrying, shooting or hunting is a good thing...... Well we can respectfully disagree and leave it at that, everything I've
been taught about firearm safety is the opposite, and seen some damn stupid ass shit when people are drunk...never mind drunk with a firearm.

Shoot first, beers after....works for me......

If its gay for you and you like to get hammered while shooting or carrying that's good for you.

Then disagree and leave it at that.

 

[dcmdon]

Really….MA has such better gun laws. Really.

Go get your new ARs, standard cap mags NFA shit and supressors, and off list pistols.

Oh…you cant. GMAFB.

He's actually right.

When it comes to where you can carry, MA is better than many "free" states.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's true.

Shoot, in CT it was legal to carry on a college campus until last year.

This is the law:

Sec. 53a-217b. Possession of a weapon on school grounds: Class D felony. (a) A person is guilty of possession of a weapon on school grounds when, knowing that such person is not licensed or privileged to do so, such person possesses a firearm or deadly weapon, as defined in section 53a-3, (1) in or on the real property comprising a public or private elementary or secondary school, or (2) at a school-sponsored activity as defined in subsection (h) of section 10-233a.

It makes no mentions of colleges. Only primary and secondary schools.

I'm about 90% sure that this was changed with the recent legislation in 2024.

Neither MA nor CT prohibit carry by statute in:

1) government buildings, state or local
2) houses of worship
3) bars
4) restaurants

All of this is subject to CGS § 29-28(e), which says

(e) The issuance of any permit to carry a pistol or revolver does not thereby authorize the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver in any premises where the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the person who owns or exercises control over such premises.

There are no standards for signage. So if you ignore a sign, and are "made", even if the police are called you will not be subject to arrest. The only people who have been arrested in accordance with this restriction are those who refused to leave or disarm after being asked repeatedly to do so.

Again, I'm not saying that places like MA and Ct are great for gun owners. Just that they have better laws as far as where you can carry than states like Florida and Texas.

Remember one thing. FL and TX aren't really pro liberty states. They just support that liberties that gun owners tend to like. Other liberties aren't protected.

Places like NH are truly small government. pro liberty places.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Neither MA nor CT prohibit carry by statute in:

1) government buildings, state or local
2) houses of worship
3) bars
4) restaurants

This is no longer true with the recent changes to MGL. LTCs are not valid for carry in government buildings "used for government administration" unless specifically allowed by the town/city government.

I suspect there are NESperts who can explain exactly what building qualifies, but I do not profess to be one of them. I would certain expect town hall counts, but don't know about libraries; police stations or DPW salt domes. It depends on if there is a differentiation between a "government service" like loaning books and "government administration" like tax collection, housing the town's legislative body, etc.

Remember one thing. FL and TX aren't really pro liberty states. They just support that liberties that gun owners tend to like. Other liberties aren't protected.

QFTMFT

Again, I'm not saying that places like MA and Ct are great for gun owners. Just that they have better laws as far as where you can carry than states like Florida and Texas.

It also depends on the level of offense given to violation of a carry sign or prohibited location. TX was all over the place with signage - at first, it was not in the law but someone came up with "algorithmic trespass" - if you violate a sign you are engaged in armed criminal trespass. Then, it went to the 30.06 sign with a criminal penalty, and after con-carry was added, a 30.07 sign was added to the law. Even later, TX added "leaving when asked" as a specific defense to the signage law. So does it really matter?

 

[G4Y4HK]

Do no gun signs at private businesses carry the weight of the law in Texas? In Maine, it just means don't let anyone see it lol. Obviously still can't carry in schools and government buildings but let's say a doctor's outpatient office or a store has it on the door, just make sure you don't print.

 

[Garys]

You can not carry in the MA State House, Boston City Hall, or any state court. While it's not statutory and all they can do is not let you in, it's still a restriction. As Mark says, on balance Texas and most other southern states are much more 2A friendly. There is wide reciprocity across the south if you have a permit from another southern state and some other states as well.

NH is purple at this point. Two Democrat Senators and both Congresscritters are Democrats. Not too long ago, the Democrats controlled the legislature and the Governor was a Democrat.

So, stop with the BS about how much more 2A friendly MA is than TX. Or NH for that matter. LTC in Texas is $40.00 for four years. Plus course and fingerprints. I took the course for some silly price like $69.00 which included breakfast, fingerprints, and live fire qualification. I also got to hear Michael Cargill talk about the Supreme Court hearing on his case agains the ATF.

He's actually right.

When it comes to where you can carry, MA is better than many "free" states.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's true.

Shoot, in CT it was legal to carry on a college campus until last year.

This is the law:

Sec. 53a-217b. Possession of a weapon on school grounds: Class D felony. (a) A person is guilty of possession of a weapon on school grounds when, knowing that such person is not licensed or privileged to do so, such person possesses a firearm or deadly weapon, as defined in section 53a-3, (1) in or on the real property comprising a public or private elementary or secondary school, or (2) at a school-sponsored activity as defined in subsection (h) of section 10-233a.

It makes no mentions of colleges. Only primary and secondary schools.

I'm about 90% sure that this was changed with the recent legislation in 2024.

Neither MA nor CT prohibit carry by statute in:

1) government buildings, state or local
2) houses of worship
3) bars
4) restaurants

All of this is subject to CGS § 29-28(e), which says

(e) The issuance of any permit to carry a pistol or revolver does not thereby authorize the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver in any premises where the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the person who owns or exercises control over such premises.

There are no standards for signage. So if you ignore a sign, and are "made", even if the police are called you will not be subject to arrest. The only people who have been arrested in accordance with this restriction are those who refused to leave or disarm after being asked repeatedly to do so.

Again, I'm not saying that places like MA and Ct are great for gun owners. Just that they have better laws as far as where you can carry than states like Florida and Texas.

Remember one thing. FL and TX aren't really pro liberty states. They just support that liberties that gun owners tend to like. Other liberties aren't protected.

Places like NH are truly small government. pro liberty places.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Do no gun signs at private businesses carry the weight of the in Texas? In Maine, it just means don't let anyone see it lol. Obviously still can't carry in schools and government buildings but let's say a doctor's outpatient office or a store has it on the door, just make sure you don't print.

Yes to TX, but leaving when asked is a valid defense.

Signs in Maine have legal force in establishments that serve alcohol (not sure if it is bars only or a restaurant ban)

 

[Rob Boudrie]

You can not carry in the MA State House, Boston City Hall, or any state court. While it's not statutory and all they can do is not let you in, it's still a restriction. As Mark says, on balance Texas and most other southern states are much more 2A friendly. There is wide reciprocity across the south if you have a permit from another southern state and some other states as well.

It is now for MA buildings used "for the administration of government".

 

[Garys]

I have to admit that I don't follow the changes in MA law because they don't have any effect on me. I assume that none of the changes were for the better. I'm sure that "adminsitration of government" will be both vaguely and widely interpreted to the detriment of gun owners. As is every other MA gun law.

In Texas leaving when asked is not just a defense, it removes any criminality from the situation. I think the fine is something like $50.00. Also, if Texas suspends a license, it's for a specific period of time and you get it back at the end of the term.

The only serious offense is violating the 51% rule. Which is a felony, but there aren't a lot of places that have those.

It is now for MA buildings used "for the administration of government".

Yes to TX, but leaving when asked is a valid defense.

Signs in Maine have legal force in establishments that serve alcohol (not sure if it is bars only or a restaurant ban)

 

[Drill Baby Drill]

Illegal to carry a gun in a bar in FL

Restaurants are OK, Bars and bar areas of restaurants are not.

also no open carry in FL either and a 3 day waiting period if you are not licensed.

so no guns in

1. Any place of nuisance (a place of nuisance, is a place where there is illegal activity such as gambling or prostitution.)
2. Any police, sheriff or highway patrol station
3. Any detention facility, prison or jail
4. Any courthouse
5. Any courtroom
6. Any polling place
7. Any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality or special district.
8. Any meeting of the Legislature or a legislative committee
9. Any school, college or professional athletic event not related to firearms
10. Any school administration building
11. Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption
12. An elementary or secondary school facility
13. Any area technical center
14. Any college or university facility
15. Inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport
16. Any place where carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law

I think it would be a shorter list to say where it’s not prohibited!!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

In general, the new the carry law the more excluded locations.

Back when the 2A was ignored, carry permits were issued only to categories of people the government "liked", and the degree of like depending on the jurisdiction. It ranged from "no record" to "white" to "connect and important person". Since the laws were written with this in mind, there was no need for exclusion zones as there was no threat of commoners carrying. That all changed with the shall issue movement, and later with Bruen. Suddenly, the system had to figure out a way to impose restrictions on the lowly commoners who could now go armed. NY all but eliminated concealed carry with the requirement of getting advance permission from the person in charge of every piece of private property you would be setting foot on/in.

When Michigan went from "may" to "shall" issue (Pre-Bruen) it added a list of off limits places not previously in the law.

 

[M1911]

So, stop with the BS about how much more 2A friendly MA is than TX.

No one is saying that. What they are saying is that TX law prevents you from carrying in some places that MA allows.