Temporary firearm storage guidance

[Grendizer138]

I may be selling my house in Southcoast, MA and will be essentially homeless for a bit. My new mailing address will be in MA at a relative’s but I’ll be staying in RI. The recent RI laws f***ed me in this regard, as my friend in RI (not where I’m staying) who was going to store my safe and contents is now understandably pant-shitting.

I have a good friend in MA, who does not have an LTC, but is willing to store at his place if legal. To be honest, I’m not sure anymore.

Ideas?





(Preparing for the inevitable “you can store them at my house” comments)

 

[42!]

"Rent" space at your friends. Just something written that says you are paying $1 a month for X sqft as defined in the agreement. Put in some BS about access, how and when, make it sound leese-like, and that the landlord is not permitted to access anything in your space. Now it's no different than if you rented a storage unit. Or just put your safe in a storage unit.

I'd be sure your friend isn't PP as well.

IANAL, my advice is worth every penny that you paid for it.

 

[Broc]

Your friend in MA doesn't need a LTC to store your guns, it is legal as long as he doesn't have access to the guns.

 

[Grendizer138]

Your friend in MA doesn't need a LTC to store your guns, it is legal as long as he doesn't have access to the guns.

Thanks. This is kinda what I thought. He owns the house, and I don’t need to give him access to the safe. All the contents would be compliant with MGL.

Edit: I am not sure if he’s a PP. Does it matter if he doesn’t have the safe combo?

 

[Broc]

Thanks. This is kinda what I thought. He owns the house, and I don’t need to give him access to the safe. All the contents would be compliant with MGL.

Owning the house has nothing to do with it.

All that matters is that he doesn't have access to the guns.

 

[Retired-LEO]

Owning the house has nothing to do with it.

All that matters is that he doesn't have access to the guns.

^This^

 

[Amputee Marksman]

When I moved back to MA from CA I didn't have a MA LTC. Brought back all my stuff in a U Haul Truck. Had a storage space rented ahead of time for the stuff in the U Haul but didn't feel comfortable leaving firearms etc. in there. Had an old HS Buddy who was still living in the area. He didn't have a MA LTC. We just moved my safe into his basement, filled it up it and covered it with a couple of old sheets. Never told him the combo and he was fine. As soon as I had my LTC and a place to stay I got my stuff back. I don't know how many laws were broken but everything worked out.

 

[42!]

Thanks. This is kinda what I thought. He owns the house, and I don’t need to give him access to the safe. All the contents would be compliant with MGL.

Edit: I am not sure if he’s a PP. Does it matter if he doesn’t have the safe combo?

I don't think it matters if he doesn't have access, but I think of it as just avoiding the question. I'm not suggesting a background check, but maybe talk to him, ask the right questions. If it does ever come up you can at least says you asked about it and can say you thought it was all good. It's just a CYA thing.

 

[SgtHal75]

OP is going to jail

 

[42!]

OP is going to jail

you're right, it would be far easier for him to just give me all his guns........ the safe too, I'll need more space to store them

 

[Broc]

When I moved back to MA from CA I didn't have a MA LTC. Brought back all my stuff in a U Haul Truck. Had a storage space rented ahead of time for the stuff in the U Haul but didn't feel comfortable leaving firearms etc. in there. Had an old HS Buddy who was still living in the area. He didn't have a MA LTC. We just moved my safe into his basement, filled it up it and covered it with a couple of old sheets. Never told him the combo and he was fine. As soon as I had my LTC and a place to stay I got my stuff back. I don't know how many laws were broken but everything worked out.

Being MA, probably 10 laws.
But the storage part was not a law you broke, you did it the right way. Safe in the house, your buddy didn't know the combination.

 

[Broc]

Edit: I am not sure if he’s a PP. Does it matter if he doesn’t have the safe combo?

My guess: if he doesn't have access to the guns, then it shouldn't matter.

But, better check with someone that spends a little more time reading the laws.

Maybe @CrackPot , @drgrant ... don't want to tag our resident lawyers, but you could call one of them.

 

[Grendizer138]

My guess: if he doesn't have access to the guns, then it shouldn't matter.

But, better check with someone that spends a little more time reading the laws.

Maybe @CrackPot , @drgrant ... don't want to tag our resident lawyers, but you could call one of them.

I was going to tag Len, but it always feels cheesy to ask for free knowledge for something he gets paid for.

Drgrant is just going to tell me to stop pant-shitting and rubber-lipping.

 

[Waher]

B&K Sales & Service in Natick
Or store the safe in a friend's garage.

 

[Broc]

I was going to tag Len, but it always feels cheesy to ask for free knowledge for something he gets paid for.

Drgrant is just going to tell me to stop pant-shitting and rubber-lipping.

My advice, call one of the known lawyers. It will be a 5 minute phone conversation, chances are you won't have to pay for it, but if you do, just pay $50,100 ... whatever they might charge for that short conversation.

Buddy of mine has an arrest as a minor (like 10 years ago), nothing violent, just stupid drunk outside while being a minor. He was pant sh*tting so I told him to call Neil. He did, spoke for a few minutes and filled out his LTC application. Those few minutes saved a lot of pant sh*tting.

 

[Buck F]

My advice, call one of the known lawyers. It will be a 5 minute phone conversation, chances are you won't have to pay for it, but if you do, just pay $50,100 ... whatever they might charge for that short conversation.

Buddy of mine has an arrest as a minor (like 10 years ago), nothing violent, just stupid drunk outside while being a minor. He was pant sh*tting so I told him to call Neil. He did, spoke for a few minutes and filled out his LTC application. Those few minutes saved a lot of pant sh*tting.

You obviously don't call many lawyers if you think there's anything like a short conversation about anything

 

[union]

Make more friends with LTC?

 

[SgtHal75]

My advice…never go on the internet with this stuff.

 

[Amputee Marksman]

Being MA, probably 10 laws.
But the storage part was not a law you broke, you did it the right way. Safe in the house, your buddy didn't know the combination.

I'm figuring way more than that if you take into account I drove from CA to MA and there is no way I was legal in all the states I traveled though. FOPA couldn't save me cause I wasn't legal in MA.

 

[Broc]

You obviously don't call many lawyers if you think there's anything like a short conversation about anything

The few that kept on talking were enjoying the conversation and never charged me.

Last one was a really nice NES member, told me to call him regarding a question with inheritance. We spent an hour on the phone talking about different possibilities, what he had seen, what type of contracts he worked on ... he was a great guy.

Before that it was a business lawyer, got a nice education out of that one.

Before that it was immigration lawyer. That one I had 2 calls with before hiring him. First one was roughly 30-45 minutes to discuss as an initial consultation. He charged me $100 for that, he was upfront about the payment and it was fine with me.

I won't include all the lawyers I speak with on a weekly basis when working on contracts, as those are business lawyers getting a salary.

The OP question is fairly straightforward and if it requires more time a lawyer will let him know.

 

[Grendizer138]

My advice, call one of the known lawyers. It will be a 5 minute phone conversation, chances are you won't have to pay for it, but if you do, just pay $50,100 ... whatever they might charge for that short conversation.

Buddy of mine has an arrest as a minor (like 10 years ago), nothing violent, just stupid drunk outside while being a minor. He was pant sh*tting so I told him to call Neil. He did, spoke for a few minutes and filled out his LTC application. Those few minutes saved a lot of pant sh*tting.

I think you’re right. I’m going to email or call Neil. The piece of mind will be worth his fee. My risk tolerance is pretty high, but I don’t want to take chances for other people.

 

[SgtHal75]

You obviously don't call many lawyers if you think there's anything like a short conversation about anything

I was shocked when my divorce lawyer broke phone and e-mail conversations into quarter time not a full hour of billing over a 10-15 minute conversation.

 

[CrackPot]

if you meet the storage requirements and no one without a LTC has access, you are fine.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Thanks. This is kinda what I thought. He owns the house, and I don’t need to give him access to the safe. All the contents would be compliant with MGL.

Edit: I am not sure if he’s a PP. Does it matter if he doesn’t have the safe combo?

Legally yes, as the combo gives him access.

Reality check time -

99.99% of the time there will be no issue, it will never be noticed or raised as an issue. I've had a carry license since 1983 and in only two cases did I need to display it to law enforcement - both of which were very routine and too boring to relate here. You are dealing with "what happens if...." edge cases. The approach is not to look only at what the law actually says, but how it is likely to be applied. For example, how many people have actually avoided being charged with possession of a firearm on school property by pointing out to the police that the gun was not on their person while bing possessed in on school property? The law is clear on that one, but practice is nearly universally consistent with the MA law where the handcuffs meet the wrist.


.0001% of the time something will happen. For example, if a warrant is served on your friend (perhaps a service person notices the safe, assumes you have guns, and reports it to the PD), the police are unlikely to accept "....not covered by the warrant, leased property". And as to you friend not being in possession - charges would likely be filed and, with proper preparation, he would have a good offense (are you going to reimburse him since he was doing a favor for you?). If you go that "Safe in unlicensed friend's place" you may wish to consider a printed notice on the safe "Property of ...... ; no other person has combination; consent to search valid only if granted in writing by ......." to establish clear notice rather than make it look like an ex post facto justification.

Good lawyers like Tassel, Langer and others know not only the law but how things go down in practice. Hire, pay and heed their advice.

 

[Broc]

Legally yes, as the combo gives him access.

Reality check time -

99.99% of the time there will be no issue, it will never be noticed or raised as an issue. I've had a carry license since 1983 and in only two cases did I need to display it to law enforcement - both of which were very routine and too boring to relate here. You are dealing with "what happens if...." edge cases. The approach is not to look only at what the law actually says, but how it is likely to be applied. For example, how many people have actually avoid being charged with possession of a firearm on school property by pointing out to the police that the gun was not on their person while bing possessed in on school property? The law is clear on that one, but practice is nearly universally consistent with the MA law where the handcuffs meet the wrist.


.0001% of the time something will happen. For example, if a warrant is served on your friend (perhaps a service person notices the safe, assumes you have guns, and reports it to the PD), the police are unlikely to accept "....not covered by the warrant, leased property". And as to you friend not being in possession - charges would likely be filed and, with proper preparation, he would have a good offense (are you going to reimburse him since he was doing a favor for you?). If you go that "Safe in unlicensed friend's place" you may wish to consider a printed notice on the safe "Property of ...... ; no other person has combination; consent to search valid only if granted in writing by ......." to establish clear notice rather than make it look like an ex post facto justification.

Good lawyers like Tassel, Langer and others know not only the law but how things go down in practice. Hire, pay and heed their advice.

What if a meteor hits the house and the explosion makes the safe fly and land on a school?

I get your advice, you are right, specially the last paragraph.

But if we get into every what if scenario, we might as well own nothing and never leave our homes. But you are right, and you never know who you will get when something happens, all that is needed is someone trying to make a name for themselves to f*ck you over.

In the end, speaking with a lawyer is the best advice.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

What if a meteor hits the house and the explosion makes the safe fly and land on a school?

I get your advice, you are right, specially the last paragraph.

But if we get into every what if scenario, we might as well own nothing and never leave our homes.

In the end, speaking with a lawyer is the best advice.

Agreed. It's not a matter of telling someone what they should do; just giving all information so they can make a fully informed decision.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I walk the path of what many would call excessive caution. When I go to the range, I leave trigger locks on the guns I am not using. That way, if one of my guns is stolen while I am the range, misplaced, I brain fade and leave the range bag at the club, or even drive off forgetting my gun bag is resting the back of my car, at the club they are still "securely stored" according to the law.

I know of cases where people because separated from their guns do to honest error, reported it to the police, and were thanked with an LTC revocation and an unsafe storage charge (Lifetime federal PP if high cap).

Ditto for any guns not in my safe at home and not on my person.

 

[Buck F]

The few that kept on talking were enjoying the conversation and never charged me.

Last one was a really nice NES member, told me to call him regarding a question with inheritance. We spent an hour on the phone talking about different possibilities, what he had seen, what type of contracts he worked on ... he was a great guy.

Before that it was a business lawyer, got a nice education out of that one.

Before that it was immigration lawyer. That one I had 2 calls with before hiring him. First one was roughly 30-45 minutes to discuss as an initial consultation. He charged me $100 for that, he was upfront about the payment and it was fine with me.

I won't include all the lawyers I speak with on a weekly basis when working on contracts, as those are business lawyers getting a salary.

The OP question is fairly straightforward and if it requires more time a lawyer will let him know.

I was joking, mostly. My personal attorney was also a friend so we'd talk and he'd bill me for the time we talked business, he recently retired and I'm using someone else at the practice. I have dealt w/ multiple lawyers over the years over a variety of matters. In general, lawyers don't want to answer a quick question from someone they don't otherwise do business with. I imagine some of the in-house NES lawyers might be willing to do so for NES members for specific gun related questions but I'd say that's the exception rather than the rule. When you ask a lawyer a question it's usually not a simple yes/no straightforward answer because they need to cover all the bases.