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Tell me about .38 Super
- Thread starter In God We Trust
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USPSA/IPSC breathed new life in to the 38 Super cartridge. A key development was the practice of using fully supported barrels in 1911s and 1911oids, allowing this cartridge to be loaded to very high pressures that generate sufficient gas to render compensators rather effective. Most of the people in USPSA using Supers seem to be the younger crowd with the need for speed, with us older folks gravitating towards limited and production.
You will find Colts originally built by the factory as 38 Supers in the hands of the 60+ crowd. The young guns are using Supers built by smiths like Wilson or Acme, or high end specialty companies like STI and SVI.
Some people have gone to 9x19 major (9mm loaded way beyond SAAMI pressures), but it is harder to get major factor loads, and reliability can be trickier.
As I mentioned, 38 Supercomp is becoming popular. It has the advantage of no semi-rim (which makes mag stacking and feeding more problematic), and will work in guns chambered for 38 super (though, ideally, one you use a different extractor, it is not strictly necessary). The converse is not true - a gun built for Supercomp will not fit the larger case head (if it does, the gun was not built to Supercomp specs). There were other calibers that dabbled with the same concept (9mm TSW; 9x23; 9m TJ.. or was it 38 Super TJ; etc.) but none of those caught on like Supercomp.
The big problem with 38 Super is there is no surplus brass available. People shooting 9x19, Fotay and 45 can often get range droppings (especially after a police range rental) or from the surplus market for $40 or so a thousand. I shoot fotay and don't worry about getting my brass at local matches where pickup is allowed. 38 Super and Supercomp shooters are stuck paying about $225/K for new brass.
You will find Colts originally built by the factory as 38 Supers in the hands of the 60+ crowd. The young guns are using Supers built by smiths like Wilson or Acme, or high end specialty companies like STI and SVI.
Some people have gone to 9x19 major (9mm loaded way beyond SAAMI pressures), but it is harder to get major factor loads, and reliability can be trickier.
As I mentioned, 38 Supercomp is becoming popular. It has the advantage of no semi-rim (which makes mag stacking and feeding more problematic), and will work in guns chambered for 38 super (though, ideally, one you use a different extractor, it is not strictly necessary). The converse is not true - a gun built for Supercomp will not fit the larger case head (if it does, the gun was not built to Supercomp specs). There were other calibers that dabbled with the same concept (9mm TSW; 9x23; 9m TJ.. or was it 38 Super TJ; etc.) but none of those caught on like Supercomp.
The big problem with 38 Super is there is no surplus brass available. People shooting 9x19, Fotay and 45 can often get range droppings (especially after a police range rental) or from the surplus market for $40 or so a thousand. I shoot fotay and don't worry about getting my brass at local matches where pickup is allowed. 38 Super and Supercomp shooters are stuck paying about $225/K for new brass.
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Colt still makes 38 Supers today as a regular production chambering.
You can get a Government Model right now with a National Match barrel for $799 from CDNN:
https://www.cdnnsports.com/colt-competition-government-1911-38-super-blue.html?___SID=U#.WeGZtoWMVFU
KBCraig
NES Member
Great medium caliber for the 1911, but don't confuse it with other 1911s marked ".38", like the .38 AMU (also a great round, but for bullseye).
The high velocity power factor is similar to the development of the .41 Magnum, years later.
The high velocity power factor is similar to the development of the .41 Magnum, years later.
Just finding a .38 AMU and ammo for it is like finding a dinosaur egg, because Colt only made 380 complete pistols in this chambering back in the mid 60's.
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It's all but an obsolete cartridge in the United States. Outside the US there are countries that forbid civilian ownership of "military calibers" and .38 Super is not in that list.
It's got power, but that power isn't worth the price. If you want that power, buy a .357 Sig or 9mm +P+ ammo.
Or better yet, 10mm Auto.
It's got power, but that power isn't worth the price. If you want that power, buy a .357 Sig or 9mm +P+ ammo.
Or better yet, 10mm Auto.
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I think the term "specialty cartridge used in certain shooting games" would be a better description than "obsolete". It's still easy to find new brass for 38 Super and 38 Supercomp.
In God We Trust
NES Member
Colt still makes 38 Supers today as a regular production chambering.
You can get a Government Model right now with a National Match barrel for $799 from CDNN:
https://www.cdnnsports.com/colt-competition-government-1911-38-super-blue.html?___SID=U#.WeGZtoWMVFU
Mass Compliant?
CatSnoutSoup
NES Member
There are four Mass compliant Colts in .38 Super
O1073CCS, O1083CCS, O1973CCS, O1983CCS
SJan
NES Member
The 38 Super is semi rimed, so it's breech face is larger than 9mm breech face. Although the 38 Super comp breach face is interchangeable with a 9mm breech face it will not be a simple barrel swap. 1911 parts are not drop in. A barrel will need to be hand fit. the extractor may need to be tuned or replaced as well. This is well within the abilities of a competent gunsmith
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Old School Open Division pistol. Caspian chambered in .38 Super. It will feed and function 100% with Super, Super-Comp, 38 TJ, and even the odd piece of 9x23 that happens to get through the press. ![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
seanc
NES Member
About a million years ago, I had a Norinco Torkarev. Mine came in 38super and 7.62x25.i believe it was just a barrel and mag swap.. iirc there was also a 9mm/mag bbl available as an add on for the ridiculous price of about $50..
In God We Trust
NES Member
Ok Gents, thanks for all the input. Since I am not a competitive shooter, would you say that there is little reason besides "I want one" to buy? I mean like pointless for a carry piece over a 9mm or .45?
seanc
NES Member
I still say it is a great round. Hotter than a 9. Higher capacity than a 45. Very flat shooting. Manageable recoil (depending in how hot the load is). Reasonably available at a generally not ridiculous price.
That sounds like the exact argument for the .40 S&W and .357 SIG
SJan
NES Member
Just say no to 40.
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I have seen people shoot 38 Supercomp out of a gun built for 38 Super without problems. That being said, it is not the ideal situation.
The Supercomp and Super can use the same barrel (the cut for the semi-rim does not hurt use with Supercomp).
Not only are barrels not drop in, Super and Supercomp are generally run with compensators which makes setting up a second barrel all the more difficult.
The big thing is the extractor. My Super/Supercomp gun has a changeability kit - a Super and SuperComp extractor, as well as breechfaces for both calibers. The Infinity slide has an interchangeable breechface. One thing about interchangeability - if you are running with a Supercomp breechface and a Super round gets in the gun, you probably won't notice. If a Super round gets in a gun with a Supercomp (9mm) breechface, it will not slide up into position.
Thanks. I haven't shot super in ages, and the Starline addition of Supercomp to the product line certainly changed things for the better. The last I had checked it was over $200/K. Now, even the Dillon pricing has come down (to $17.00 per 100). Rare good news.
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The .40 is an intentionally emasculated 10mm auto.
The .357 SIG, and .45GAP are "answers" to a question that was not being asked.
Knob Creek
NES Member
It was derived from the .38 ACP. The cases are virtually the same. Close enough to interchange. I have a Colt 1902 chambered in .38 ACP. Commercial .38 Super should never be used in a .38 ACP Colt firearm. I also have a Colt 1911 in .38 Super.
seanc
NES Member
Hmmm..
It seems to me the arguement for the 40 went something like.. joe FBI came up with this awesome round known as 10mm.. then many of the girly men lawyers at the FBI could not handle it. So they had to dumb it down to 40 short and weak.
Then somebody said, oops. We took this great round and made it in this abomination of a round what we do now?
And then somebody said, well, lets neck down the case and put a 9mm head on it and we'll be cool, just like 7.62x25!
Then SIG said.. hey! Glock's got this 45gap thing, Ruger has some weird crap. And,well weatherly is the king of weird ass shit. We need some bizarre thing too. So it became 357 sig.
They did that and just about everybody said, ya it's cool. But I'd rather have a tokarev or cz 52.
Or something like that.
Where as 38 super... they said.. Bonnie and Clyde.. and it was good.
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