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telescoping stock MA-legal if pinned?

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Moga, Sep 10, 2006.

  1. Moga

    Moga

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    There was a thread here posted within the last few weeks where a discussion of the legality of telescoping stocks on AR rifles was held. If my memory serves me correctly, a NES moderator said that a telescoping stock could be MA legal if it was pinned permanently in place. Pinning it in one position in effect converts it to a fixed stock in matters concerning MA firearms law. Is this true?

    I've fallen *hard* for a Bushmaster rifle (AK Carbine) that isn't MA legal. There appears to be a MA-ready version (AK A2) with the 10-round magazine and full buttstock that I'm not crazy about. I could let the A2 follow me home someday soon if it would be legal to swap the stock for a telescoping one fixed in place. Doing so would be a close approximation to the AK Carbine IMO. Do I have a chance with her?

    I wasn't successful in my attempts to locate the original post. Thus I bring my question to you all. Thanks.
     

  2. Moderator

    Moderator Moderator NES Member

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    If post ban in MA; If the collapsible stock is permanently pinned it is legal. Be sure that is does not have a flash hider or bayo lug either.
     
  3. Lugnut

    Lugnut

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    How would it be permanently pinned? So one could "use" a telescoping stock but pin it so it can't be adjusted? So that it can be adjusted later? This has me very curious. How permanent does it need to be pinned?
     
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  4. Executive

    Executive NES Member

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    Yeah thats a good question. What if you have a telescoping stock and "pin" it using a nut and bolt? This would require tools to adjust the size, but not be readily adjustable in the field. Could any of our legal eagles help out with the MGL definition of a telescoping stock?


    Chris
     
  5. ignium

    ignium

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    That's some info I want to get in on as well. I recently bought an AR and am interested in getting a better stock for it. So if I can get a knew one and make it legal just by pinning it that would be great.
     
  6. Soxfan9

    Soxfan9 NES Member

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    I have a fixed "telestock" on my postban AR. It is actually a Bushmaster as well. I would consider trading it for an A2 stock if all of the parts were the same (buffer etc).

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Fooped

    Fooped Resident HK Guru

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    Here's the really ridiculous part:

    This thread is discussing the legality of having a adjustable or telescoping stock "pinned" in place to make it Mass AWB compliant. A very valid question, to be sure. However, here's the part that makes my brain itch:

    It is a well known fact that one of the main reasons the AWB was put into place at the Federal level, was that these "Assault weapons" had "evil features" that made them very closely resemble their military counterparts (how this was or is an actual safety or crime issue, I have yet to determine[rolleyes])

    Here's the kicker that proves (once again) that the Commie-crats that run this joint have utterly NO idea how ineffective the gun "laws" here are:

    Whether a collapsible stock is pinned, or can move freely...

    IT STILL LOOKS LIKE A COLLAPSIBLE STOCK!

    Yet if it's pinned it's legal, which is entirely contradictory to the whole "purpose"[rolleyes] of the ban in the first place.

    "But Mr./Mrs. Lawmaker, I thought we were trying to get rid of these evil LOOKING features."

    The actual functionality of the stock is not brought into play for it's horrible, baby-slaughtering ability to make the gun more comfortable to fire, but because it looks "evil". [rolleyes]

    Yet more "feel good" law bullshit from the place where liberty was born (And by that, I mean earned with blood and firearms)[smile]

    Sorry for the temporary derailment of the thread, but I thought this was a valid point, and I can no longer keep it bottled up...[wink]

    As far as the concept of what's pinned "enough", I've seen guns in shops here in Mass that had M4 style stocks on them that were immobilized from the factory. Speaking strictly from my own interpretations, here's my take:

    IANAL (There I said it)

    1. In order to have any legal issue, with the stock (or the rest of the gun for that matter) you'd have to have an encounter with some type of LEO, which given the many discussions we've all had on this board, is rare at best. This is particularly true with an AR style gun, as most likely it wouldn't leave your house except for a range event of some type. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm in no way saying "Don't worry about the ban, do what you want" but hear me out...

    2. If (and it's a big if) you were to come under legal scrutiny, the LEO in question would have to know the particulars of the AWB, AND know (think he knows) that your serial number on your gun was post ban (Oh the legal wringer he'd be wrung through if your gun was legit pre-ban, or post ban AWB compliant and he hauled you in anyways)

    3. Let's say #1 AND #2 both happen for one reason or another, after you demonstrate to the LEO that your gun is in fact, AWB compliant (In this particular case, the stock is "fixed") and has no other "evil features" aside from the pistol grip that all AR's have, do you really think that any LEO is going to bother with you? Are they going to check how the stock was pinned? God, I hope not.

    I know, I know. We all spend alot of time on this board discussing how utterly moronic the laws are here, and that there's a vulture of a prosecutor just waiting to hit us law-abiding folks with every statute in the book if we so much as go outside our home and say "gun", but at some point enough has got to be enough.[angry]

    Thanks for letting me rant, and honestly, hold out for a pre-ban gun. I did, and there's something nice about knowing full well that your particular gun is yours to do what you want with (for now[rolleyes]). I saw a Colt Sporter HBAR at the NH show a couple of weeks ago for 950.00, and you can bolt the kitchen sink onto it if you want. Check NH dealers, then reference the serial number of the gun against www.ar15.com to determine if it's pre-ban. The states that don't have this ridiculous AWB usually have good deals on older guns, as people often trade up to newer guns without worry of becoming "non-compliant".

    Just my 2 cents. [grin]
     
  8. EZEKIEL 25:17

    EZEKIEL 25:17

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    Well ranted as usual

    Fooped,

    A high quality informative rant. I love the fact that the accepted code word for disclaiming the fact you have no legal experience is I ANAL.......[grin]
     
  9. Moga

    Moga

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    I'll soon get to the bottom of this question

    I will pose the question to legal counsel when I meet with a MA firearms lawyer on Monday (not for this purpose). Will report back afterward.

    The reason I asked this originally is because I don't want a M4 stock permanently pinned in the full open position. This is customarily the state that crippled MA-legal AR-15s are sent. Instead, I'd like to have one in the fully-compressed state to minimize overall rifle length.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2006
  10. Lugnut

    Lugnut

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    I'll be eager to here what council has to say!
     
  11. Rob Boudrie

    Rob Boudrie

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    To which administrative council do you refer? Or did you perhaps mean counsel?
     
  12. Lugnut

    Lugnut

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    That would be legal counsel I assume... [rolleyes]
     
  13. Moga

    Moga

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    Whoops! Thanks guys for pointing out my spelling mistake so subtlely. LOL
     
  14. gonzoga51

    gonzoga51

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    See what the laywer says, FWIW I have a post ban AR and it has a fixed/telescoping stock (hows that for any oxymoron!!) It is not in the fully-compressed position though. I have seen some websites that advertise these pinned stocks claiming they are legal, not sure if you can pick your length it is pinned at? The place I bought from told me I was OK with this (pinned stock)and I got something in writing on it but they are not a lawyer either-this could prove to be worth little in the event I ever ran into an issue.

    I would think you'd be able to have it provided you met minimum lengths for the barrel, etc??. Another aspect might be if you bought the stock pinned to a length or if you actually customized it and set the length? Law might view each of those differently. I beleive the (ir)- rational behind banning collapsible stocks was that it would prevent the ability to conceal the weapon under a jacket, etc.

    I am not so sure how many crooks have cancelled their bank robbery plans becuase they couldn't find an AR with a stock that fit easily under their trench coat? ;-) I am sure if you asked a politician they'd have a number...........
     
  15. icyclefar

    icyclefar NES Member

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    At the risk of being known for having misinterpreted, or misunderstood what I was told when I made the same inquiry. Pinning the stock makes the stock MA legal. Having the ability to change the length by resetting the pin in another position with the use of tools of some sort is also not a problem. [grin] However, squeeze, adjust, release ........... that's a problem! [frown]
     
  16. Moga

    Moga

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    I remember reading the exact same thing (at NES). And I feel pretty good about it being factual because it was never exposed by any of our resident legal experts as being at odds with the law and it does make sense.

    I got so busy talking about other issues on Monday that it completely slipped my mind to ask the counselor if the interpretation I remember hearing is true. Next time.
     
  17. hurricane87

    hurricane87

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    Has anyone ever found out if driving a screw through a collapsable stock "good enough"? I want mine in the fully compressed position.
     
  18. Kevlar

    Kevlar

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    Probably not. While there is no definitive answer, it is generally accepted that a "blind pin" is the appropriate method to achieve compliance.
     
  19. Remsport Mfg

    Remsport Mfg NES Member

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    Blind pin in any position. Complete M4 pinned stocks in any position can be had for $65.00. You could use other methods to pin the stock, ones that would be easier to defeat, however this would not be in keeping with the interpretation of the law and I would not want to be the test case for some overzealous gun hating ADA.
    The only thing you must be aware of is OAL of your rifle it must be at least 26". This should not be a problem with a 16" barreled gun.
    The one thing I always ask is why pin at the shortest, do you ware body armor, are your arms really short and you need a reduced LOP? You might find you will get fatigued and uncomfortable shooting in such an unnatural position. However it really looks cool and that would be enough to warrant short.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2011
  20. Len-2A Training

    Len-2A Training Instructor Instructor NES Life Member NES Member

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    Feds offered guidance, but MA does NOT as nobody in political power has the technical knowledge and competence to do so.

    I don't know what MA DAs/LEOs/judges will accept as OK, but a look at a S&W 15-22 coming out of the box (MA compliant version) shows it pinned . . . BUT it is NOT a blind pin.
     
  21. Dnotarianni

    Dnotarianni

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  22. MichaelJR

    MichaelJR

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    Be double vigilant in making sure there is no bayo-lug....gotta stop the drive-bys



    ADD: I just realized this thread is 5 years old...jeez.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2017
  23. MichaelJR

    MichaelJR

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    I have one for my zombie build. Built like a damn tank. Make sure you get the 1" buttpad or the dpms buttstock extender....stock with the 1/4" is WAY too short.
     
  24. ParkerShannon

    ParkerShannon

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    I am a Massachusetts resident and have recently purchased a S&W M&P Sport with the pinned stock.

    I am tall, with long arms and would like more stock.

    I have been told by a couple of "knowledgable" guys at the club, that the pin can be popped, the stock removed, and a new pin hole drilled further back in the buttstock buffer tube.

    Do any of you have any first-hand information regarding this problem/solution?

    Thanks . . .
     
  25. Stef

    Stef

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    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2011
  26. Stef

    Stef

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    Yes, it can be done. Rather easily if you have a drill press. You should have asked Dave to do it when he installed your comp.
     
  27. glide

    glide

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    NO. This cannot be done on an M&P15 with a MA fixed stock.

    You need a new stock and new buffer tube assembly. S&W makes these specifically for MA and specifically so you cannot do what you intended.
     
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  28. Stef

    Stef

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    Really? How incredibly lame :/
     
  29. Kid Presentable

    Kid Presentable

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    yup, that was the case with my m&p15. it was a faux collapsable stock.
     
  30. highlander

    highlander

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    My DPMS with the non collapsable collapsable stock was not only pinned but epoxied in place.
     

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