The girl was an innocent bystander.From what I’ve watched and heard about this, it was a justified shooting.
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The girl was an innocent bystander.From what I’ve watched and heard about this, it was a justified shooting.
Is that a GLANCE after running down the aisle to close withinA GLANCE would have shown the rifleman in this case that the perp was no threat to anyone. ...
You’re absolutely correct. The only view the gunman had was of a suspect that did not appear to have a firearm. Luckily he shot first, murdered two people and asked questions later.Is that a GLANCE after running down the aisle to close within
a yard or two of the perp?
Because the only view the cop had before shooting
was of someone holding a 4'x6" piece of framed artwork
like some kind of medieval shield in their right hand.
What kind of GLANCE would verify the perp didn't have
a handgun behind the painting? In their belt if not in their hand.
Is that a GLANCE after running down the aisle to close within
a yard or two of the perp?
Because the only view the cop had before shooting
was of someone holding a 4'x6" piece of framed artwork
like some kind of medieval shield in their right hand.
What kind of GLANCE would verify the perp didn't have
a handgun behind the painting? In their belt if not in their hand.
You’re absolutely correct. The only view the gunman had was of a suspect that did not appear to have a firearm. ...
The last I heard, neither of those things are under debate.I don't think it's too much to ask that cops be sure of their target, and of the need to fire in the first place.
The last I heard, neither of those things are under debate.
It's what's behind the target that's the problem.
This is a bad one. True there was an idiot caller that said it was a shooting. But there was no gun and the nut has his hands down even if he was armed. Then wildly blasting away with a rifle. I bet the cop will be charged.
I mean, losses are part of the game in war. Cops, I hope, don't think like that. The major change after Columbine was a shift from waiting for SWAT to show up vs regular joe cops doing what they can to end an active shooter.Well... not in my experience. A HUGE part of conducting a leaders' recon of your objective is to avoid blue-on-blue incidents. It's always seemed to me that the police should have the same concern, times a million. Since the vast majority of the people downrange of them are "blue," from the standpoint of shooting. But I digress.
A GLANCE would have shown the rifleman in this case that the perp was no threat to anyone. It does not need to be a lengthy process. Clearly, I'm preaching to the choir, but it maddens me that men are sent in with so little information and not expected to update their situational awareness, especially since that information is bound to be old, from an unreliable source, or both by the time the cops get there.
And don't get me started on the fact that the fatal shot was a horrific miss.
I mean, losses are part of the game in war. Cops, I hope, don't think like that. The major change after Columbine was a shift from waiting for SWAT to show up vs regular joe cops doing what they can to end an active shooter.
That said, even with the training I got, it was years between full on force on force training that you need to deal with this type of situation. If you've never been through a full on scenario with live actors, it's an eye opening experience.
exactly this. You don't mag dump at a crowd of people because a bad dude is there. The LEO dumped 3 rounds at this guy out of a 20" speedy boi with no idea if there were anyone in the changing room."Himself" doesn't concern me. The bystander in the dressing room does. The perp with the bike lock didn't cause her death, an LAPD bullet did. And to the extent that LAPD incompetence and thoughtlessness caused that, they need to pay.
Swat snipers aren't taking shots beyond 100ds in damn near every encounter. There are plenty of instances where a pistol is a better tool than a rifle. The LEO was out there with some surplus vietnam AR and smoked an innocent 14yo protecting and serving.I'm not completely disagreeing with you in concept. But a M4 is a better mid/long range option when you don't know what you're walking into. If there was a shooter on the other side of a Walmart, I'd rather have a rifle, even if I'm capable of hitting a human sized target at 100 with a pistol. Just because I can doesn't mean I shouldn't have the right tool on hand.
Because there was no shared consensus between all the cops that a longarm should take point.I watched the bodycam video. The LEO wanted real bad to get up front/shoot his rifle/get his first CONUS kill.
(Watching the video for the first time,It wasn't necessary for this police officer to fire any round at all, least of all a miss into the ground.
From what I’ve watched and heard about this, it was a justified shooting.
From what I've heard, I'm not disagreeing on that point at all. I'm just commenting on the basic tactics, not the implementation of said tactics.I get that, and I'm all in favor of cops going in heavy when there's an active shooter.
From what I've seen, this guy was not an active shooter.
Talk about the wrong weapon for the job. Shotgun guy was a little out of line unless he had slugs loaded.Because there was no shared consensus between all the cops that a longarm should take point.
P. S. They were leading with a 12 gauge shotgun until the AR showed up.
Look, I get it. I'm a pistol in most situations guy. But, going into an unknown situation, unknown threats, unknown armor, I'd at least have one rifle in my group if I was lucky enough to have a group. Rifle up front is pretty basic, lead with the heaviest hitter. Someone posted the presence of a shotty, buckshot stays pretty tight out to 15ish yards, but it's still a decent sized spread when inches count. Not my personal choice in a messy situation with bystanders, unless it's got slugs.Swat snipers aren't taking shots beyond 100ds in damn near every encounter. There are plenty of instances where a pistol is a better tool than a rifle. The LEO was out there with some surplus vietnam AR and smoked an innocent 14yo protecting and serving.
I'm just commenting on the basic tactics, not the implementation of said tactics.
Chicago and NYPD are spending their shifts watching Netflix in a parking lot. This isn’t a joke, they are doing the bare minimum to not get fired.Just wait until LAPD is under a Chicago-style consent decree,
where a civilian (i.e., BLM) "review board" gets to persecute
cops for anything they've ever done in their career,
regardless of double-jeopardy
(and probably regardless of statute of limitations).
That's how you get Chicago-style police response.
(Fourth (final) section of the post).
Tubes gonna tube, man. Oh, checkitout:Talk about the wrong weapon for the job.... They were leading with a 12 gauge shotgun until the AR showed up.
Ya know, I've never seen "what do police use in their patrol shotguns?"Shotgun guy was a little out of line unless he had slugs loaded.
This. What a contrast with this month's "shouldn't be a cop" copJFC, I don't know what to make of this one. I was surprised when the cop opened fire immediately. I don't know what he saw that made him do it. I got the impression that he didn't see anything, just jumped to the conclusion that the bleeding victim had been shot, ergo the perp is an active shooter, ergo needed shooting right away. ...
Maybe it was purely a personal choice. But you make me wonder:... Came across as trigger-happy to me. ...
I've (unexpectedly) read more about CPD,Chicago and NYPD are spending their shifts watching Netflix in a parking lot. This isn’t a joke, they are doing the bare minimum to not get fired.
Good point. Seemingly. Dude got hot before taking the room temperature challenge.BTW, it was actually more disturbing to see the stuff
seemingly discarded by fleeing shoppers at the foot of the escalator,
Which was discovered after the fact thanks to the a-hole who made the 911 call falsely claiming an active shooter.I get that, and I'm all in favor of cops going in heavy when there's an active shooter.
From what I've seen, this guy was not an active shooter.
I haven't been able to watch the footage yet but the question bouncing around in my head has been, "Does the LAPD own an effing shotgun?!"Because there was no shared consensus between all the cops that a longarm should take point.
P. S. They were leading with a 12 gauge shotgun until the AR showed up.
I bet there would be a lot fewer pissed off people right now if mom and daughter were in the hospital for two days recovering from a couple .32 pellets being removed.
No doubt, but I wouldn't underestimate the bad possibilities using a shotgun with these marksmanship and judgment skills. The round that ricocheted should never have been fired. If the ricochet wasn't the last shot, the cop's marksmanship is horrifically bad, and right there, that's your problem. But assuming it was the last shot, it was bad judgment to keep shooting as the suspect fell. The winning move was to stop shooting once the guy is falling because you shot him twice. They're probably trained to fire 3-rounds, but surely they're not trained to keep firing that 2nd and 3rd round, tracking the perp to the ground in order to finish the set.